The difference between a dream and a lucid dream

[Nfri]

I'm currently thinking about the quetion: what is the difference between a dream and a lucid dream? When I read about this topic, some people say that you can think clearly, make decisions, focus attention... I think these activities are common in nonLucid dreams as well as in lucid ones. Recall the intentions from waking life? You can do this in nonLucid dreams as well. So I'm looking for something that is not present in nonLucid dreams at all and it's present in lucid ones. Stephen LaBerge in his book say that this something is awareness. What's awareness? - <knowledge or understanding of a subject, issue, or situation> In this case we can say - Knowledge of a sitiation - that means know that what is now happening is a dream, not the reality. When you gain this knowledge, it changes everything. When you gain this knowledge in a dream (I call it MAGIC MOMENT) you become lucid. Well, I don't understand it enough. Let's try to aplly this on waking state. How? I don't know. First thought come to my mind is KNOW that this is reality and not a dream, but when I realize that, no ''magic moment'' appears. The reason why this ''magic moment'' doesn't show up may be that I don't know what this thing called reality really means. Okay, reality means - the real nature of things... Nature???? Nature - the physical world including all living things. Physical??? existing in the real world, nature laws of GAME called life. So how can I be LUCID in waking life? My idea is to KNOW THE REALITY - to know my possibilities according to nuture laws? This leads my to reality check induction technique <which I know is really not a effective way of induction lucid dreams> but it can be effective reminder of knowing the reality - to know my options in real life, but this is not a topic of this threat. I'm not fully satisfied with this theory of mine and I believe there are lots of clever oneironauts who can help me to find the better answer to my question: What is the difference between lucid and nonLucid dreams?

[LucidBrot]

In the lucid state, you know whether you dream - no matter if you're lucid in your dream or awake. You cannot be -as you say- aware of the situation while awake in any other way, because you don't know anything else than 1. Waking life & 2. Dreams You cann say that you can fly in a dream and therefore you are awake / asleep, but you cannot say 'in reality, i cannot do this, that i can do while outside of reality'. You're always in reality. Being lucid when you're awake means to me just being all the time consciously asking yourself wheter you dream. An other possible definition could be that you're also consciously aware of your surroundings - when you consciously smell, touch, see, and so on. This is what kingYoshis ADA tutorial explains.

[NonDualistic]

To be lucid in waking life You must question your very self You must first taste the divide between yourself and body/person/persona Then you must maintain that awareness... Every moment.. Of every day.. In everything that is done Such is the "meditation" It is very easy to fall back into old habits.. Return to blindness Just being so and so, doing such and such Until death recycles You without choice Lucid living and lucid dreaming allows one great opportunity It allows one to see the people, places, things, and events unfolding in a detached fashion Not personally caught up in all the movement It allows one to see and realize all the Teaching that is flowing in the moment

[Nfri]

Being lucid when you're awake means to me just being all the time consciously asking yourself wheter you dream. An other possible definition could be that you're also consciously aware of your surroundings - when you consciously smell, touch, see, and so on. Yes, these two's are the common approaches and attitudes, but I think they are completely wrong!

[LucidBrot]

Yes, these two's are the common approaches and attitudes, but I think they are completely wrong! Why?

[Alric]

I personally use a very clear cut definition to determine what is lucid and what isn't. If you are aware you are dreaming, then you are lucid. If you are not aware you are dreaming then it is a normal dream. That simple. The level of clarity within the dream, the amount of awareness and the amount of self control is irrelevant. It depends entirely on if you know you are dreaming or not. So if you have an extremely vivid dream, where you are fully in control of the dream and see everything in great deal but you never realize you are dreaming, then it is a normal dream. If you are entirely passive in the dream with no control what so ever, and you have no awareness and you are not yourself in the dream but you have the side thought of, "Hey I am dreaming." and then get distracted and forgot you are dreaming 30 seconds later, then you were lucid dreaming during those 30 seconds. Though the moment you forget you would have returned to a normal dream. Lucid dreams and normal dreams are basically the same thing, they are both just dreams. There is nothing special or different in a lucid dream, we simply call it lucid since you are aware of it being a dream. If you have the thought, "This is a dream", then it is lucid. If not, then it isn't. Simple as that. If you try to make it any more complex than that, you just going to confuse yourself with the huge overlapping characteristics of lucid dreams and normal dreams, since they are basically the same thing and they share all the same traits with only one difference, if you are aware of being in a dream or not.

[LucidBrot]

I think that opinion is ok to have, but then you would call a dream where you know that you're dreaming a lucid dream, no matter whether you just know it as 'background information' or are consciously aware of that fact, right? That's one way to see it, but that would actually make most lucid dreams the same as normal dreams because it isn't something special. I often have dreams in which I know that I am dreaming and can fly around, but I do not realise that I could do something different than the story of the dream suggests. And to call that a lucid dream would lead to many people saying that lucid dreams aren't special at all. So what I am basically saying is, that when you focus on simplicity, your definition is probably the best one. But it isn't accurate.

[Alric]

Well that is why people often say there are different levels of being lucid. You can be more lucid or less lucid, and that are basically referring to how much awareness you have. Just like there are different levels of how vivid a dream is, and there is different levels of control as well. If you realize that you are in a dream, even as background information then a part of you is aware. You are not going to notice you are in a dream if you are entirely unaware, so being lucid does imply some level of awareness. I would agree that some lucid dreams are probably nothing special, but that isn't an issue. The fact that they are not that special, doesn't change the definition. Also people don't go for the lowest possible levels of being lucid. People who want to be lucid go for the mid to high levels of lucidity. I don't think there is anything wrong with my definition of a lucid dream, and it doesn't make anything less special. If someone has a very low level lucid dream then you can just say, "That was a lucid dream with very low lucidity."

[LucidBrot]

I 'm not sure whether I already said that, but how about we define lucid with the awareness that we are dreaming instead of with the knowledge of the dream state. I'd really dislike a definition where it's also a lucid dream if you just dreamt that you had a lucid dream.

[Alric]

You are right, in that a lucid dream is the awareness that we are dreaming. However, it isn't actually clear at times if you are actually aware or just think you are aware. My position is that it is really a judgement call. If you think you were aware, then you probably are and it is a lucid dream.