Thread: Tim Leary - Think for Yourself, Question Authority

not sure humans will evolve into something positive. I think we'll perpetually be caught in a vicious cycle of producing crap and voting for fuckwads, untill the cockroaches take over.

Originally posted by CT
not sure humans will evolve into something positive. I think we'll perpetually be caught in a vicious cycle of producing crap and voting for fuckwads, untill the cockroaches take over.

You have to have hope, CT!

Anyhow, I think a great deal of the article has to do with how government and others have no right to alter another person's consciousness, and it is the right of the individual to create their own reality, so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. I think Leary believes that drugs are able to expand awareness. He might argue that everything we percieve is a result of our brains interpreting data. We don't actually 'sense' anything, our brain simply translates it. Meditation, and his answer of drugs, allows us to alter the way our brain translates data so that we can experience every detail of reality.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but I do think he presents an interesting theory.

My problem with western culture is that it is counter-productive to culture itself. Take a look at the world right now- vanishing languages, declining tradition, and lost heritage. This is because of a unifying world of empty bullcrap covered in glitter and $20 bills.

Oooo thats a BIG paper. Thanks tho, leary writes some cool stuff.

I like Tim Leary - the psychadelic experience should be a required reading before taking hallucinogens. Wether or not he actually stumbled upon a new path to enlightenment is debatable, but thats cool - he gave the world one cool trip! Personally I think he just tapped into the eastern religions control of the mind and made it work for the psychadelic experience. Both religious and psychadelic experiences have to influence you in the mind - wouldn't it make sense that both would be better recieved under a still, meditation trained mind, than the traditional westerner's sense of things. I sure know if I held my reality as sacred as the majority of people seem to drugs wouldn't have been as fun

Then again, he did rat out his drug buddies to avoid jail. Noone likes a narc. Plus his psuedo-science isn't really that...... real. Works for him though!

Oh well, he still had some good ideas!

-spoon

Take a look at the world right now- vanishing languages, declining tradition, and lost heritage. This is because of a unifying world of empty bullcrap covered in glitter and $20 bills.[/b]

I don't believe unification is a particularly bad thing - if I believed it was occurring. But I do think heritage, tradition, and communal values are important to society as a whole.

Personally I think he just tapped into the eastern religions control of the mind and made it work for the psychadelic experience.[/b]

Most definately.

Maybe he was just trying to get everyone tripping with no real purpose.

Both religious and psychadelic experiences have to influence you in the mind - wouldn't it make sense that both would be better recieved under a still, meditation trained mind, than the traditional westerner's sense of things.[/b]

I agree. That may have been part of the reason why his ideas utimately failed. People don't seem to want to expand themselves and open themselves - they mostly just want to have fun. The hippies of the 60's were mostly comprised of hedonists, for sure.

Then again, he did rat out his drug buddies to avoid jail. Noone likes a narc. Plus his psuedo-science isn't really that...... real. Works for him though! [/b]

Ha!

He actually did serve jail time, I believe. I think it said in that thesis he served about twenty years? From the seventies to the mid-eighties. But yeah, the psuedo-science can be a bit comical. Such as how he wants people to live in space colonies in the Larange Point between the earth and the moon, which, I cannot seem to find anything about; even whether it actually exists or not.

Oh well, he still had some good ideas! [/b]

Yep. Even in fiction, there is always some truth.

Originally posted by Death-Wuad
My problem with western culture is that it is counter-productive to culture itself. Take a look at the world right now- vanishing languages, declining tradition, and lost heritage. This is because of a unifying world of empty bullcrap covered in glitter and $20 bills.

Thats one reason why people voted for bush in this past election. The far left really pushes to erase that stuff, and if you disagree with them your a crazy christen or a bigot. Which is not really true.

By the way, why would someone need to take drugs to find enlightenment? It normally works the other way around, taking drugs cloud your mind so your not thinking right. Which may be way he went to jail. I don't know though because I didn't read that part.

Thats one reason why people voted for bush in this past election. The far left really pushes to erase that stuff, and if you disagree with them your a crazy christen or a bigot. Which is not really true. [/b]

This thread is about Leary. If I were to argue politics with you in here, I would say that your statement is entirely baseless, and, in fact, contradictory to the very ideas expressed by the Democratic party.

But again, this isn't about politics.

It normally works the other way around, taking drugs cloud your mind so your not thinking right.[/b]

Leary would argue that the mind fabricates reality. Taking drugs allows one to rearrange reality and the set and setting within your mind in order to see what it truely consists of.

Which may be way he went to jail.[/b]

He got caught possessing marijuana.

Cool, thanks for that paper, I read it and its quite interesting. Not much to say now as Im kinda drained from staring at the monitor so long.

Interesting link, Asidbasic. I downloaded so I can print out to read all of it. A couple of comments were made I'd like to respond to.

Originally posted by Alric
By the way, why would someone need to take drugs to find enlightenment? It normally works the other way around, taking drugs cloud your mind so your not thinking right.

You're right, Alric. It normally does work the other way around. However, I've read some things lately that indicate that the psychedelics LSD and mescaline aren't like most drugs. At large enough doses, \"ego dissolution\" can occur. Evidently, this is a very profound psychological occurrence. The phenomena can also be \"self-induced\" through countless hours of meditation (ie - no drugs required, just a lot of time and practice).

Apparently, \"ego dissolution\" is the direct aim of Buddhist meditation. For most of us, however, \"ego dissolution\" is a scary thought when you get right down to it. Being unprepared for this sensation is probably a common reason for \"bad trips\".

I believe that the phenomena of \"ego dissolution\" is the primary factor that would \"cause enlightenment\" for a user. Most everyone knows about the indians using peyote as a religious tool. Leary is just using LSD in the place of mescaline to achieve similar effects. Is this a crazy idea? I don't know. I think the Buddhist approach is probably safer. Anyone seeking enlightenment will be confronting their demons along the way. Such demons are easier to deal with one at a time than all at once.

Originally posted by Acidbasick
But yeah, the psuedo-science can be a bit comical. Such as how he wants people to live in space colonies in the Larange Point between the earth and the moon, which, I cannot seem to find anything about; even whether it actually exists or not.

Lagrange points aren't psuedo-science. They do, in fact exist. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point if you don't believe it. Whether or not we'll actually put them to use, well, that's another story...

Ha! This is great. I just remembered there was this group called the L5 Society (L for Lagrange point). Did a search and found some web sights. This one has some great pictures of "concept" Lagrangian "orbs" for human habitation.

Check out http://www.l5news.org/. Look under "L5 space colony artist renditions" for some great pictures. Who can say? It could happen...

Sorry I got so massively off-topic. I just had a "flashback" to another place and time...

I was thinking about Leary earlier today as I was searching through Border's Books selection looking for a new copy of the Will To Power. If we have beliefs constantly bombarding our brain from birth from socialization then how can we objectively see our reality? Break the previous insufficient values and work from an objective point of view, a valueless world, or, nothing. This can be an impossible task at times, so it requires a bit of help from external sources (ala psychedelics). DMT is said to reveal to the user the Clear White Light of the universe which allows them to see things are they are currently simply through observation.

A meditator is cut off from all external sensory input after a certain amount of master which leads to the Satori, the great revelation and revaluation of life. Although from first glance his books seem, to put it bluntly, fruity, once you get down to the basics of his writing you see that things are not as they appear. Leary is a genius along with all the great metaphysical and political philosophers of history.

Hey, didn't know this topic was still alive.

Check out http://www.l5news.org/. Look under \"L5 space colony artist renditions\" for some great pictures. Who can say? It could happen... [/b]

Thanks muchly for the link. I had no idea that it actually existed.

The French mathematician, Lagrange, in 1772, showed that there are five such points. Three of them lie on a line connecting the Earth and Moon; these are L1, L2, and L3. They are unstable; a body placed there and moved slightly will tend to move away, though it will not usually crash directly onto the Earth or Moon. The other two are L4 and L5. They lie at equal distance from Earth and Moon, in the Moon's orbit, thus forming equilateral triangles with Earth and Moon. The Sun is in the picture, and it disturbs the orbits of spacecraft and colonies. It turns out (from an extremely messy calculation done only in 1968) that with the Sun in the picture, a colony could be placed not directly at L4 or L5, but rather in an orbit around one of these points. The orbit keeps the colony about 90,000 miles from its central libration point.[/b]

If it is true it is a pretty neat idea. The only thing that seems unreasonable is the scale of these proposed satellites. I doubt anything of this size would be completed in mine or your lifetime. Not to mention their own timeline is a bit off.

It is thought that habitats of this type will be technically feasible towards the end of this century, possibly by the early 1990s. One calculation has indicated that with the level of industrial activity which is contemplated for space by that time, and with the means of transportation by then available, construction of such a habitat could proceed in about two months. Accumulation of the shield would take place over the ensuing two years.[/b]

But the images are niffty.








The other thing they don't seem to touch on is how they intend to defend against any sized space debris, like meteors. Rocks are common in space which is why the earth is so ideal for living. We have that atmosphere up there to stop most of it. Also, where do they intend to get all this earthen material? Once that stuff is off of earth it isn't coming back. I'm sure that there will be a group against the harvesting of earth to put pieces of it into space; especially if it is good topsoil as indicated in the grassy look of the pictures.

Nonetheless it is a attractive prospect.

Cool, thanks for that paper, I read it and its quite interesting. Not much to say now as Im kinda drained from staring at the monitor so long.[/b]

Glad you gave it a good read.

Give some feedback!

If we have beliefs constantly bombarding our brain from birth from socialization then how can we objectively see our reality? Break the previous insufficient values and work from an objective point of view, a valueless world, or, nothing. This can be an impossible task at times, so it requires a bit of help from external sources (ala psychedelics). DMT is said to reveal to the user the Clear White Light of the universe which allows them to see things are they are currently simply through observation. [/b]

You bring up a wonderful point. It is nearly impossible to forgo everything that defines how we perceive reality; the basic principles suggested and taught to us at birth. Or perhaps it is instilled in our collective unconsicous? An archetype?

Glad you enjoyed the link. I've read a number of things about space colonization over the years.

The only thing that seems unreasonable is the scale of these proposed satellites. I doubt anything of this size would be completed in mine or your lifetime. Not to mention their own timeline is a bit off. [/b]

I agree regarding both scale and time line. No space program has yet experimented with centrifugal gravitation on any scale that matters. There was initially supposed to be a centrifuge module on the international space station, but budget cuts eliminated that. Dollars are what dictate the time line and feasability. As of yet, there has been no urgent need to move toward anything like this (or return to the moon, trip to Mars, etc.). Unless there is a compelling need to create something like this, the timeline will drag out indefinitely. As for scale, yes, they are collosal - but not impossible - once again, the economic need would be the driving factor.

The other thing they don't seem to touch on is how they intend to defend against any sized space debris, like meteors. Rocks are common in space which is why the earth is so ideal for living. We have that atmosphere up there to stop most of it. Also, where do they intend to get all this earthen material? Once that stuff is off of earth it isn't coming back. I'm sure that there will be a group against the harvesting of earth to put pieces of it into space; especially if it is good topsoil as indicated in the grassy look of the pictures.[/b]

Most of what I've read regarding protection from space debri and radiation has been related to the "earthen material" you referred to (a large enough mass around the outside of the colony would protect occupants from debri and radiation). In fact, it's highly unlikely that it would be from earth. A better alternative would be to steer an asteroid into one of these orbits, or process material from asteroids (or possibly the moon) and move these materials into position for construction. The Earth's gravity makes bringing materials "up" far too expensive. However, steering material (that's already out there) into place is much cheaper from an energy standpoint. The majority of the resources necessary for such an endevour are, in fact, actually available in orbit around the sun. It'd still be an enormously expensive undertaking!

_________________

I've been reading the paper a little at a time. It makes me want to pick up a couple of Leary's books. He's got some whacky ideas, but some of them have merit. I think it's quite fascinating that his emphasis went from the "inner space" of individual minds, to "outer space".

As a boy in the 60's, I was totally taken with space exploration. The "space race" was hot, and mankind's potential was unlimited. As I grew older, I watched the fervor over space travel dwindle back down to nothing more than a nitch market for science fiction media. Of course, I didn't understand it at the time, but all that fervor was really being fueled by an artificial war - the "cold" war - and the political/economic/sociological machinery that was fighting it.

I think Leary is close to the mark about the "genetic purpose" of the last century's wars. I'm not sure if you would classify their purpose as "genetic" per se, however - unless we use the term loosely and include the concept of memes, perhaps.

Interestingly, I find myself looking more and more into that "inner space" in recent years. I look at so many of the subjects that fascinated me as a youth with a rather "jaded eye", nowadays. I've been greatly attracted to the eastern philosophies (and simultaneously repelled by my conventional upbringing). Unfortunately, I have become somewhat dissillusioned and pessimistic - and that's too bad - because I was always an optimist before (when I had my illusions ). Maybe I should try a Timothy Leary Ticket. Who knows, it might change my point of view...

[size=18]MOODY BLUES LYRICS

"Legend Of A Mind"

Timothy Leary's dead.
No, no, no, no, He's outside looking in.
Timothy Leary's dead.
No, no, no, no, He's outside looking in.
He'll fly his astral plane,
Takes you trips around the bay,
Brings you back the same day,
Timothy Leary. Timothy Leary.

Along the coast you'll hear them boast
About a light they say that shines so clear.
So raise your glass, we'll drink a toast
To the little man who sells you thrills along the pier.

He'll take you up, he'll bring you down,
He'll plant your feet back firmly on the ground.
He flies so high, he swoops so low,
He knows exactly which way he's gonna go.
Timothy Leary. Timothy Leary.

He'll take you up, he'll bring you down,
He'll plant your feet back on the ground.
He'll fly so high, he'll swoop so low.
Timothy Leary.

Those above pictures are amazing btw thanks

I think that to a major extent, Timothy Leary was a crackpot. However, he was one of the most brilliant people ever, and I love reading about his ideas. If you want to learn a lot about him, read Cosmic Trigger Vol. 1: Final Secret of the Illuminati by Robert Anton Wilson. It is the trippiest book I have ever come across (that I didn't write ), and the author was very good friends with Leary. Leary is only one of the recurring topics in the book. Timothy Leary is famous for his cultish acid philosophies he preached in the 1960's, but he actually did some very solid work as a psychology researcher. He was a psychology professor at Harvard. A lot of the research and experimentation that was done and used as a basis for the major knowledge we have today on personality disorders was done by Timothy Leary. He was very respectable as a psychology theorist in the beginning, but then he started doing acid all the time and started going off the deep end, but his wacky ideas make great science fiction. He said we were going to have an immortality pill by the beginning of this millenium. Perhaps he misestimated.

Great book, i love the images, i can look at them for hours!

The docu "Timothy Learys Dead" is also very cool.