Time and Space are illusions

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05-08-2009, 06:10 PM
Kuhnada29

Time and Space are illusions

created by the mind. I think that time actually is relative to the speed of your thoughts.

If your in specific place , and you turn to look at a flower, but the flower doesn't register in your eyes until 5 seconds later...your still percieving it, and it wouldn't seem like you perceived it slow, but in fact it is slower...to someone else with regular thought speed looking at you. But to you with the slower thought speed, your just perceiving normally.

I don't understand why people doesn't believe in dualism yet. I mean open your mind, look. Science has already proven that we are made of electrons and other subatomic particles. Right?

Now quantum mechanics also proved that electrons can exist outside of time and space...and just as a wave of potential. Mean it exists in all possible places and speed in this form. ANd only snaps into a specific speed and place when its observed. So the electron has basically two forms. Wave and particle.

Now if we ARE made of electrons, that would also mean we can exist outside of time and space. There are two forms of us beings also...the brain-physical..outside world. And our existence as wave of potential. Or energy. The mind-inside our selves. Feelings and emotions. There are two sides to everything. Just like male and female.
05-08-2009, 07:07 PM
dajo

A bunch of quantum physicists are past dualism and are all for unity.
At the core.

Love and Fear, Male and Female as well as dead and alive are just two
different sides of the same medal.
05-09-2009, 02:46 AM
Specialis Sapientia

Well, you are right that the perceiving of time is relative to the speed of thoughts. This is supported by science.

In these studies a person was looking at a timer, the numbers were moving way too fast, the subject could not see the numbers.

Then, they strapped the timer on his head and made him jump 30-40 meters in freefall onto a air pillow. When we are dealing with immense stress under emergency situations the speed of thoughts are given a boost, actually its dubbled. (Many people in extreme situations will say the time went in slow-motion.) While the subject was falling in freefall, he was able to figure out the numbers, like it was slow-motion.

A simple thought experiment can be demonstrative too, just think about making every thought in your mind much faster, what if you in 1 second could think of what to do the whole day, how would time be perceived?
05-11-2009, 10:44 PM
Photolysis

You mistakenly equate space and time with our PERCEPTION of space and time. What we perceive has no bearing on whether that thing in question exists.

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how quantum mechanics also proved that electrons can exist outside of time and space

Incorrect.

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Mean it exists in all possible places and speed in this form.

Incorrect. Please stop spouting your nonsense as if you actually know what you are talking about. Collapsing a wave-function does not mean that that particular wave-function had an infinite amount of possibilities prior to it being collapsed.

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Now if we ARE made of electrons

And protons, and neutrons ...

And yes, everything possesses wave-particle duality, but for macroscopic objects, such as say, a human being, it will not act as a wave under practical circumstances.

So basically, you're using your highly flawed understanding of an (admittedly complex) subject, to justify your various nonsense.

This is why I hate this forum at times. You get some people who make an attempt to educate themselves on various topics and have meaningful discussions on them. And then you get others who have no understanding of the terms they throw around and bastardise in an attempt to explain their (usually preconceived) pseudo-philosophical notions of reality.

Perhaps the saddest thing is that it draws in people who are unaware into thinking there is a great deal of meaning and that the person making these statements is very intelligent, instead of it generally being realised as the nonsense it is.
05-12-2009, 02:28 AM
DuB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photolysis

You get some people who make an attempt to educate themselves on various topics and have meaningful discussions on them. And then you get others who have no understanding of the terms they throw around and bastardise in an attempt to explain their (usually preconceived) pseudo-philosophical notions of reality.

To be fair, the same could probably be said about life in general. :wink:
05-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Photolysis

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuB

To be fair, the same could probably be said about life in general. :wink:

True, but I'd say it occurs on the Internet more often, simply because on a forum - not being in real time - it means you can look stuff up when challenged, which can help to provide the illusion of knowledge. Don't get me wrong, being able to confirm facts is very useful, but it also allows people to get away with feigning an understanding far more easily.

Compare that to an actual conversation "in the flesh" where you can't do such a thing without giving yourself away, which probably means people are less likely to talk about such things.

To be honest, on a lot of people, the original post might have worked, simply because all the scientific terms and 'facts' give the impression of knowing what he's talking about, and because relatively few have enough knowledge to say, "Hang on, that's complete rubbish. You don't know what you're on about". The bastardisation of science can regrettably be very persuasive to the uninformed.
05-21-2009, 04:57 PM
DeathCell

I'm curious as to how many quantum physicists are on this forum compared to internet browsers or a minor course in Physics...

I'm going with the 0 - 100
05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
Photolysis

Quote:

I'm curious as to how many quantum physicists are on this forum compared to internet browsers or a minor course in Physics...

I'm going with the 0 - 100

Could you be any more presumptuous?

And guess what, I studied quantum mechanics as part of my chemistry degree, along with many other aspects of physics and maths. So really, all you've demonstrated is gross ignorance of science, and other peoples' understanding of science.

And before you even think about saying "that's chemistry, not physics", which is probably quite likely, you would also be advised to learn how important physics is in chemistry.

A few of the areas of physics you need to understand when doing chemistry:

newtonian mechanics
quantum mechanics
gas laws
thermodynamics
electromagnetic and ionising radiation
fluid mechanics
statistical mechanics
spectroscopy
nuclear physics

Do I really need to mention more?

Your arrogance is misplaced, and you would be wise to shut up as you clearly know very little on this matter. After all,

Quote:

Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt
05-22-2009, 12:23 PM
Kuhnada29

photolysis, your right. I do look shit up on the internet...but the internet is so fucking amazing..you can look up anything you want to, or learn anything you want to.

I'm just stating shit that other physicists have said is all.
05-22-2009, 01:20 PM
DeathCell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Could you be any more presumptuous?

And guess what, I studied quantum mechanics as part of my chemistry degree, along with many other aspects of physics and maths. So really, all you've demonstrated is gross ignorance of science, and other peoples' understanding of science.

And before you even think about saying "that's chemistry, not physics", which is probably quite likely, you would also be advised to learn how important physics is in chemistry.

A few of the areas of physics you need to understand when doing chemistry:

newtonian mechanics
quantum mechanics
gas laws
thermodynamics
electromagnetic and ionising radiation
fluid mechanics
statistical mechanics
spectroscopy
nuclear physics

Do I really need to mention more?

Your arrogance is misplaced, and you would be wise to shut up as you clearly know very little on this matter. After all,

You realize you are on the internet and I'm going to go the route of without proof.. How do I know your not lying?

I don't claim to know a damn thing about subjects I've never studied, and no where in my post did I. You came in here being presumptuous, his ideas are interesting and while not directly related to any quantum physics he has the ability to say what he thinks about life... While using quantum mechanics in an incorrect manner, he was simply theorizing how life would be if quantum mechanics translated that way, it at least makes an interesting if incorrect theory...

You are simply jumping down my throat when I'm simply pointing out the fact that we are on an internet forum, not a science lab... If you expect everyone here to have a degree in nuclear/quantum/jesus physics you are wrong. That doesn't mean people won't discuss science issues, and you should expect a large amount of mis-understanding.. If you are so damn well informed instead of coming in this thread looking like an over-intelligent egotist, why don't you explain the holes in his theory without attacking his character.

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Please stop spouting your nonsense as if you actually know what you are talking about.

Quote:

This is why I hate this forum at times. You get some people who make an attempt to educate themselves on various topics and have meaningful discussions on them. And then you get others who have no understanding of the terms they throw around and bastardise in an attempt to explain their (usually preconceived) pseudo-philosophical notions of reality.

Why not come in here and explain the correct scientific theory instead of simply saying NO NO AND NO and not explaining it to him. If you want people to actually learn, you don't simply tell them NO. You teach them what is wrong! I don't agree with Hard_wired or anything he said, but I don't want to see the poor boy burned at the stake for a lack of knowledge...

Fill his head with the correct theory, not negativity.
05-22-2009, 02:17 PM
Photolysis

Quote:

Why not come in here and explain the correct scientific theory instead of simply saying NO NO AND NO and not explaining it to him. If you want people to actually learn, you don't simply tell them NO. You teach them what is wrong! I don't agree with Hard_wired or anything he said, but I don't want to see the poor boy burned at the stake for a lack of knowledge...

Fill his head with the correct theory, not negativity.

With my comment about electrons, what is there to say, other than the statement is completely wrong? On scientific issues, I generally try and explain why, and I did provide a brief explanation of why the idea of existing in all places and speeds prior to being observed was wrong, as well as wave-particle duality.

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I don't claim to know a damn thing about subjects I've never studied, and no where in my post did I. [...] You are simply jumping down my throat when I'm simply pointing out the fact that we are on an internet forum, not a science lab...

I'm not jumping down your throat for that, I'm doing so because the post of yours I quoted in my states that you think it is certain that I (and others here) don't know what we are talking about. Something I take issue with, because I did actually take a course in the subject.

I never said you claimed to understand the subject, only that you dismissed my knowledge on no basis. You've admitted you are not in a position to look at what I wrote and know if it is accurate or not, which is fine, but to instantly dismiss it and with such certainty is presumptuous

Quote:

f you expect everyone here to have a degree in nuclear/quantum/jesus physics you are wrong. That doesn't mean people won't discuss science issues, and you should expect a large amount of mis-understanding.. If you are so damn well informed instead of coming in this thread looking like an over-intelligent egotist, why don't you explain the holes in his theory without attacking his character.

I don't expect people here to have science degrees or otherwise be experts in the subject, don't be absurd. People should certainly discuss scientific issues, and yes, you are correct when you say there will be misunderstanding. Such misunderstandings are inevitable.

All I expect is people stop posting in such a certain way when they're actually completely unsure of their understanding.

I also like to explicitly state when something is complete nonsense. That's my style.

Quote:

You realize you are on the internet and I'm going to go the route of without proof.. How do I know your not lying?

Aside from the fact that I have no real reason to lie and falsely claim I studied for a degree, if you educate yourself on the subject, you should see I actually do have some knowledge. It doesn't matter even if I was lying (aside from making me dishonest), because you do not need to study for a degree to learn about the subject; it would have no impact on how accurate my information was.

---------------

Quote:

I do look shit up on the internet...but the internet is so fucking amazing..you can look up anything you want to, or learn anything you want to.

It is amazing, I agree. I do it all the time when there is a subject I take an interest in. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. My comment was a general comment not aimed at anyone specifically.

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I'm just stating shit that other physicists have said is all.

I'm sorry, but this kind of stuff is not the case, because it gets basic facts terribly wrong. Any physicist who said that stuff in any serious publication would find themselves looking for a new job simply because it demonstrates a hugely flawed understanding. Maybe some people did say it somewhere, I don't know, but if they did, they certainly didn't know what they were talking about.

And certainly it seems like you've drawn a huge amount of conclusions that don't follow.

If you want to educate yourself on science, then make sure your sources are reasonably accurate. An encyclopedia (even Wikipedia) will usually give a good overview of the very basics; Wikipedia is generally accurate for the most part on big subjects such as quantum mechanics. If you want to learn about it in more detail, textbooks are a good place to start.

Because, to be honest, the stuff you said sounds like it's come straight from some pseudo-scientific mystic site that tries to use science to enhance its credibility.
05-22-2009, 03:18 PM
DeathCell

Quote:

With my comment about electrons, what is there to say, other than the statement is completely wrong? On scientific issues, I generally try and explain why, and I did provide a brief explanation of why the idea of existing in all places and speeds prior to being observed was wrong, as well as wave-particle duality.

That is what you should be saying.

Quote:

I'm not jumping down your throat for that, I'm doing so because the post of yours I quoted in my states that you think it is certain that I (and others here) don't know what we are talking about. Something I take issue with, because I did actually take a course in the subject.

I was simply pointing out the fact that on the internet you really don't know who anyone is. And the likely hood of their being a ton of informed quantum mechanics around... is small. I don't expect a lot of people to really know what they are talking about. A course and being fully involved are also two different things. I don't doubt your correct understanding, but just post it in more detail for him. (I know he uses Quantum mechanics to justify duality because of the similarities.. and the ample strangeness.)

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I never said you claimed to understand the subject, only that you dismissed my knowledge on no basis. You've admitted you are not in a position to look at what I wrote and know if it is accurate or not, which is fine, but to instantly dismiss it and with such certainty is presumptuous

I didn't dismiss anything you said, just showing you the fact that online no one really knows who the "expert" is. I'm almost positive you are correct.. The only thing he said that I agree with is duality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardwired

There are two sides to everything. Just like male and female.

But really they are one, duality is just what we perceive... Anyway I'm not going down the scientific path for this, and I'm not trying to prove it to anyone. Other than that... I really didn't see anything he said to be accurate..

Quote:

Aside from the fact that I have no real reason to lie and falsely claim I studied for a degree, if you educate yourself on the subject, you should see I actually do have some knowledge. It doesn't matter even if I was lying (aside from making me dishonest), because you do not need to study for a degree to learn about the subject; it would have no impact on how accurate my information was.

1. Understanding theory (being able to spit it back out) and understanding it in process are two different things. I don't doubt your intelligence and never did.

2. I have no reason to lie, yet a large majority of people don't believe that I had a psychic vision.

3. I never questioned your accuracy.

Quote:

All I expect is people stop posting in such a certain way when they're actually completely unsure of their understanding.

Inform them they are very very wrong, telling them the accurate way mostly you just said incorrect, incorrect. Explain it to him correctly so he LEARNS.. And then misinformation can be snuffed out. If you address people that are mis-informed correctly they can absorb your knowledge, if you go about it the way you did they'll ignore you.

P.S. ASK HIM TO SOURCE!
06-04-2009, 01:04 PM
SolvedSnake

I completely agree that time and space are illusions, created by us, but we forgot about that we created them, so we think that they are absolute.
06-13-2009, 04:33 AM
AirRick101

I believe time is an illusion, but I didn't used to ~ it happened some years back when I was watching the clock in my Physics class as always, waiting for time for move faster (kinda like the way Hiro Nakamura did, lol)...I did this every day at school since I could remember, and then bam, it hit me:

what I used to think was "time" was actually just the movements of the hands on the clock: nothing more, nothing less. I knew this intellectually for the longest time, but I really experienced that knowledge that day. cause other than the movements of the hands on the clock...how else would I be able to tell what time it is? (and this includes anything that tells time, such as digital watches, position of the sun and shadows, etc.)

I think it's more like someone ELSE created the illusion, taught us the concept of time, but didn't remind us that it's not real.
06-13-2009, 03:59 PM
DeathCell

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirRick101

I believe time is an illusion, but I didn't used to ~ it happened some years back when I was watching the clock in my Physics class as always, waiting for time for move faster (kinda like the way Hiro Nakamura did, lol)...I did this every day at school since I could remember, and then bam, it hit me:

what I used to think was "time" was actually just the movements of the hands on the clock: nothing more, nothing less. I knew this intellectually for the longest time, but I really experienced that knowledge that day. cause other than the movements of the hands on the clock...how else would I be able to tell what time it is? (and this includes anything that tells time, such as digital watches, position of the sun and shadows, etc.)

I think it's more like someone ELSE created the illusion, taught us the concept of time, but didn't remind us that it's not real.

I think the planets rotations in correlation with sun have a lot to do with our illusion of time.