Thread: After Death?

I call upon ye, powers of moderation to move this topic to R/S!

What happens? Nothing, you're dead.

Philosophy.

Your Godmother/aunties' security is not unfounded

Such an Energy is prior to birth

During life

After death


What IS can never not be

Though such may change appearance

May become conscious beyond simple Self awareness

Even unto retaining such a consciousness following a bodys death


Yet even such consciousness must by this very nature itself be changed

Shedding the impurities of the existant persona

Such becomes much much broader


Fear is merely a sign one holds tightly to the transitory persona

The creation of existance

One tends to believe too much that "this" persona is all they are

That death will rob them of themselves totally and completely

There is far greater awareness than this

Much more to the picture than seen

Than what one lets themselves see

I do not understand the nature of subjective experience, so I don't know what happens after we die. I tend to believe that there's a processor running all subjective experiences and I'm just one of its processes.

Originally Posted by CandyCloudsOfLullaby

hiya,

THis may be a morbid topic for some. However my beliefs on what happens to your soul/mind after you die has been shaken somewhat.

Well, that's nice, isn't it? Now you can go think about your beliefs and see whether they're sound, whether it's the right one, so to say. Challenge your beliefs. See which one gains the high ground.

Personally I feel that whenever life ends that's it. I won't know I'm dead, I won't know anything, I won't know not knowing, because my brain has shut down therefore there's nothing else.

You'll find that a lot of people will agree with you. I do. Most(?) scientists, materialistic atheists, etc. do believe that also. Some people won't. you'll just have to find out for yourself.

thus, death scares the crap outa me, and everyday is a blessing,

I'm guilty of that also... I don't want to die so quickly as I'll probably will. There's nothing to be afraid of, really, since we won't be "there" anymore (which, in my mind, still is a scary thought, no matter how much I dismiss it as being unimportant). It's just that I don't want to be "not there", I guess...
Dying scares me more, though... Not to give you even more frights, but the thought of slowly slipping away into nothingness, and being consciously experiencing it frightens me to my very core.

however, my Godmother/auntie, told me that energy doesn't just stop, that it has to go somewhere. She has comfort in that, and I will not make her believe anything different, because I don't want her to be scared shitless of diying.

Good. Very good. Do not argue with people who do not argue with you, whose beliefs are not damaging to themselves or others in any way and that do not negatively influence their decision making. Let them believe what they want. Let us believe what we want. It's not like we absolutely know for sure that our views are the right ones. And as long as it does not influence anyone negatively, what's the big deal?

Still, just to tell you (since you're open minded & stuff):
while the logic is sound, that energy doesn't just disappear, energy, in purely physical terms, is not "the soul"... Energy is basically just a property within a system which allows it to do "something". It isn't a tangible thing, it isn't an intangible thing. Hell, it's not even a "thing". It's just a quantity we've made up (just like mass, time and length) so we know how much work can be performed by a force.

Most people see energy as some sort of mystical force, think about the chinese "chi" for an example. And with all the fireball-shooting, energy-punching, Star Wars-style force-pushing and ghost sighting we see on tv, it's understandable. But real, physical energy is nothing like that.

A quick wikipedia search may lead you to some answers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

I am open minded, however I'm not gullible and won't let myself fall into a false sense of security, so I'm going to research some of her theories and others to help myself.

Awsome.

but first I wanted to ask you guys what your feelings and beliefs are on what happens after you die???????

Well... See above... I don't think that anything happens "to me" (i.e. to my sentient and sapient "brain-me") after I die. I'll die, and that'll be it for me. Brain gone? I won't be able to think anymore, I won't be able to experience anymore. The world'll go on after my death, obviously, but my conscious mind will no longer be around to experience it. Sort of like an ultimate unconsciousness...

And since I do not subscribe to any kind of notion of the "soul" or whatever other after-life-idea there is (reincarnation, etc.), I think that my physical death will really be the end for me.


Oh well... Guess we'll just have to make the most out of this life...

Thanks,
Claire. x

No problem. You're awsome

-CD

however, my Godmother/auntie, told me that energy doesn't just stop

A lot of people seem prone to this (including my own mother), failing to understand that life requires a constant input of energy to replace that which is lost to the environment (usually in the form of heat). If the energy didn't "go somewhere", we would have no need to eat.

Basically, the actual way energy works is nothing like this.

but first I wanted to ask you guys what your feelings and beliefs are on what happens after you die???????

It'll be exactly like before you were born.

Thank you for all your effort here, you have deffantlry given me lots to think about, and sort out.

It'll be exactly like before you were born.

That's a hell-of-a good way to put it, but that's what I'm scared of. This used to be such an irrational fear, that things got crazy for me, and I had to be put on anti-depressants - ironic, isn't it!!

However, I've come to terms with it, an seeing people's views so far, my way of thinking isn't all that bad.

And on a better note after 2years, I'm due to start coming off the treatment in 6months.

More views/thoughts/feelings/beliefs will be much appreciated.

thanks everyone,
Claire.

my mum thought of it in a crazy way;

that were all controlled like the sims, and when we die, we will meet our controllers.

I told her, that theory would make a deadly plot for a novel.

I do not understand the nature of subjective experience, so I don't know what happens after we die. I tend to believe that there's a processor running all subjective experiences and I'm just one of its processes.

Koalaman

does that not tend to make you feel not in controll of your own life?

What happens? Nothing, you're dead.

Black Eagle
short and sweet, sober and realistic!!

cheers!

It's odd to me that materialists so readily accept the idea that consciousness is tied to repeating and predictable physical processes, yet persist in the notion that they are a unique and individual mind/soul. If everything else in the universe is an unbreakable continuity, every specific inextricably embedded in larger trends which are themselves embedded in still larger trends exemplary of greater properties of the universe as a whole, then what are the odds that your life is going to pass without consequence, exempt from the interlinking causality that defines our universe as a whole?

It's odd to me that materialists so readily accept the idea that consciousness is tied to repeating and predictable physical processes, yet persist in the notion that they are a unique and individual mind/soul

What's so surprising about believing something to be unique? In such a complex system, there are so many variables that the result is likely to be unique. If I shuffle a deck of cards the result is (very likely to be) unique, yet I doubt anyone would invoke a supernatural explanation for it. It occurs because there are so many ways of shuffling a deck of cards. And human personalities are likely to be far more complex!

That's a hell-of-a good way to put it, but that's what I'm scared of. This used to be such an irrational fear, that things got crazy for me,

Is there any particular reason why this scares you?

Originally Posted by Photolysis

What's so surprising about believing something to be unique? In such a complex system, there are so many variables that the result is likely to be unique. If I shuffle a deck of cards the result is (very likely to be) unique, yet I doubt anyone would invoke a supernatural explanation for it. It occurs because there are so many ways of shuffling a deck of cards. And human personalities are likely to be far more complex!

But why emphasize the difference above the pattern? I recognized that I'm an iteration of variables that precede my birth and whose future will be determined in part by my conduct, with some of those variables being particular to my time and place, and others universal to humans, and others universal to life in general. Why identify with the most perishable, when one can identify with all that is human, all that lives, or more beyond?

Originally Posted by Photolysis

A lot of people seem prone to this (including my own mother), failing to understand that life requires a constant input of energy to replace that which is lost to the environment (usually in the form of heat). If the energy didn't "go somewhere", we would have no need to eat.

What knows of the body does not require energy; the body is what requires energy.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

It'll be exactly like before you were born.

Like before you were born and after death, yourSelf is identical to this very instant. Timeless.

I suspect that if anything happens other than nothing, it's a dream-like state. Where you (as a consciousness/sentience/mind) would be permanently "dreaming" outside bounds of space and time. In such a state, you could potentially dream of being alive and still on earth, never realizing anything happened. You could also be "reborn," similar to a resurrection philosophy. Everything's possible because it's all just a dream, or at least identical to one. The movie Waking Life includes this kind of philosophy.

It is personally my belief that once you die, you cease to exist, but not that this happens right away. When one dreams, as i am sure we are all aware of seeing the nature of this site, a short expanse of time in the waking world can seem to stretch endlessly longer in that of the dreamer. It is also said that once you die, your brain still runs for approximately 10 minutes after the moment of death. If this is true, would it be possible to in fact fall into a dream of sorts upon passing where those 10 minutes can stretch to a possible infinite expanse of time? Is it also possible, that life itself is really just a large dream, perhaps the last 10 minutes of some other life recently ended? Maybe thats all death is, a transition from one dream to the next, being a sort of sub-conscious reincarnation? Who can say? One will simply have to wait until they die and then they will know the answer.

"I don't know."

That's my answer.

when i die i'm goin to the big rave in the sky... though probably not.

thus, death scares the crap outa me, and everyday is a blessing, however, my Godmother/auntie, told me that energy doesn't just stop, that it has to go somewhere. She has comfort in that, and I will not make her believe anything different, because I don't want her to be scared shitless of diying.

I don't think you can really take comfort from this.

Energy isn't what causes you to be conscious. What specifically causes you to be conscious is your neural network, and when you die, this no longer functions.

And besides, energy is leaving you (and entering) you all the time, as kinetic energy, heat energy, chemical energy, all sorts; but do you feel your consciousness seeping into the Earth? I don't think so.

Energy is just a mathematical concept. It's no more comforting than the fact that your atoms remain.

However I personally don't know what happens when we die. We don't know what fundamentally causes consciousness so I don't think we can really predict its behaviour.

Originally Posted by Xei

However I personally don't know what happens when we die. We don't know what fundamentally causes consciousness so I don't think we can really predict its behaviour.

What if consciousness is fundemental?

Originally Posted by CryoDragoon

You'll find that a lot of people will agree with you. I do. Most(?) scientists, materialistic atheists, etc. do believe that also.

Probably true...however it's also true that they stomp on any concept that can even remotely be considered supernatural, given the fact that scientists (these days, anyway) are completely devoid of anything resembling an imagination.

Originally Posted by Xei

I don't think you can really take comfort from this.

Why not? Is comfort a bad thing? Is ignorance not bliss in such scary matters as this?

Is it better to go through life unaware of the fact that people even die at all, so that you can live it as cheerfully and care-free as you can?

Or is it better to go through life miserable with a looming sense of dread and inevitablility that all that awaits after death is nothingness? Nothingness, nonexistence - concepts that, for some reason, scare human beings perhaps more than any other. Hell would be a more attractive alternative, I'm sure most would agree.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

What if consciousness is fundemental?

You'll have to elaborate because as it stands there's not much I can gain from that.

Why not? Is comfort a bad thing? Is ignorance not bliss in such scary matters as this?

Is it better to go through life unaware of the fact that people even die at all, so that you can live it as cheerfully and care-free as you can?

Or is it better to go through life miserable with a looming sense of dread and inevitablility that all that awaits after death is nothingness? Nothingness, nonexistence - concepts that, for some reason, scare human beings perhaps more than any other. Hell would be a more attractive alternative, I'm sure most would agree.

I never said comfort is a bad thing.

Delusion is also a bad thing though. Many people are able to consciously delude themselves (doublethink) but I am not one of them. The idea about energy is really just wrong.

However I never really gave a nihilistic viewpoint in the first place. It's my opinion that we don't understand enough about the nature of time and consciousness to understand death.

Originally Posted by Xei

You'll have to elaborate because as it stands there's not much I can gain from that.

We have all pretty much been running around like headless chickens, asking what is the cause of consciousness.

We are running in circles my friends

What if consciousness is the only fundemental thing?

----------

I wish I could remember the name of a great scientific paper on how accurate (less assumptions) one could model the world as if it was seen as virtual or not virtual.

Surprisingly it came out as modelling the world as virtual gives more answers, and has less assumptions than the current scientific consensus.

We have all pretty much been running around like headless chickens, asking what is the cause of consciousness.

We are running in circles my friends

What if consciousness is the only fundemental thing?

Well, I don't personally believe that. I believe in an objective reality outside of consciousness, because an external medium is required before consciousness can emerge.

I wish I could remember the name of a great scientific paper on how accurate (less assumptions) one could model the world as if it was seen as virtual or not virtual.

Surprisingly it came out as modelling the world as virtual gives more answers, and has less assumptions than the current scientific consensus.

That seems totally made up because it honestly makes no scientific sense and I've never heard of such a paper.

because an external medium is required before consciousness can emerge

I think what SS is getting at is that our material world, as a "virtual" setting,
could possibly be founded on a greater conscious mind(?) that arose beyond (or
before) any external medium was present; that consciousness came first.

Is that right, SS?

Originally Posted by Xei

Well, I don't personally believe that. I believe in an objective reality outside of consciousness, because an external medium is required before consciousness can emerge.

Quantom Mechanics and The Double Slit Experiment can give you reason to believe otherwise, have you sought through the implications of these? The evidence is clearly there, but it is kinda like a mystical hush-hush thing for a lot of scientists (physicists).

I guess you are familiar with the physicists term "TOE", or "Theory of Everything", if you are up to it, you can read the trilogy My Big Toe written by a physicist, it is especially constructed appeal to logic and western mind-set.

The model does indeed build upon physics, but instead of explaining a little TOE (Only physics) it explains and provides the framework for a Big TOE, with "Big TOE" I mean big picture relevance.

Link to My Big Toe, free online

Originally Posted by Xei

That seems totally made up because it honestly makes no scientific sense and I've never heard of such a paper.

It makes totally scientific sense, but maybe not to you. Well, you haven't read it yet

It was quite popular some years ago, and made an impression on some people.

I made a reference to it in one of school assignments, I try to look for it.