Rehashed: If you're conscious how can you die?

Well, I read this article thinking someone just made the topic. I went to post but found it was closed because it was made over 3 years ago. Anyway, I think it's fair to bring it back up for current discussion as it is an interesting article.

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j30/ragnar.asp

First of all, I think this guy makes some great points. However, I don't think we die because we believe in our death. I don't think anything was meant to live forever, although he has an interesting point when he refers to the % of life lived as a mature member of your species. Dogs are fully matured at 2 years, and live to be anywhere from 10-16 on average. Meaning they spend 80-87.5% of their lives as mature adults. Humans are around 10% less than that, which means I think humans on average could be living 10% longer. I think over 200 is absurd, but if the average life span were 80-110 years that would be pretty profound.

Also, I don't understand how he can question spiritual masters, gurus etc that have gotten sick and died. He says he never gets sick, but is basically a matter of time (and apparently not that much considering he is a senior citizen) before his body begins to whither, his immune system weakens, and he gets sick himself. I found myself slightly offended when he said he questioned the level of self-mastery that the buddha, and others had. I'm not buddhist, or anything else for that matter...But these people are world renown, and I've never heard of this guy. If he is so much better than these spiritual masters, gurus, etc...where are his books of wisdom, his followers, his pupils? He did admit he can come across as cocky, but this seems a little over the top.

Personally my goal has always been to live to atleast 100. Though with advances in medicine and stuff, maybe it will be 150. Long enough for them to discover how to clone your entire body or implant your mind into a robot, then you can live forever.

Thought provoking post grasshoppa. Alric, my goal is to live to be at least 100 as well. But ONLY in good health...still of sound mind, walking/jogging around and with a very good body. Anything other than that will just be like being in a waiting room waiting to die. Much like how I perceive nursing homes. =/

I don't know what kind of body I am going to have at 100, but I plan to stay active mentally all the way up to that point. I have a theory, that if you stay active, read and play games and always doing new stuff, your mind will stay sharp no matter how old you get.

Even if you are weak and in a nursing home, get me a computer and hook me up to the internet, I will find something fun and interesting to do.

Not a very good article. Just another guy scared of death whose made up some baseless spiritual theory to console himself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xei

Not a very good article. Just another guy scared of death whose made up some baseless spiritual theory to console himself.

---

This is now official Philosophy Forum copypasta, and it is as of now acceptable to post this quote in any similar threads in order to terminate said thread's braincell-killing discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

This is now official Philosophy Forum copypasta, and it is as of now acceptable to post this quote in any similar threads in order to terminate said thread's braincell-killing discussion.

---

Define "braincell-killing discussion"? is it called braincell-killing discussion when you don't agree with the persons POV? in this case, the article the OP posted. Or is it something else?

I mean conversations based around "logical" speculation that usually begins with an article that talks about a lot of pseudoscientific concepts and attempts to display them in an intelligent way..

Quoted from the article:

Quote:

---

The stronger that bio-electric-magnetic field is, the more vitality the individual has, the more life force.

---

I mean, what the hell is this guy on about? Nothing he says makes any sense at all upon closer inspection. Life is sustained through homeostasis, not a fixed amount of energy, as life is constantly 'consuming' it.

Quote:

---

Basically, we come into this life with a battery that has a certain amount of juice in it. I call this prenatal chi. If you don't do a thing and you just continue to run with your lights on and the radio blaring, eventually the battery will wear out, depending upon how much demand you put on it. And that's generally seventy to eighty years. So we've got a battery that is meant to last at least that long. However, if you plug the battery in at night and you charge it, there's no end in sight—that's postnatal chi. I have a concept that says: If you go to bed with more energy than you woke up with, then all night long, you've got the battery charger on. And that's the secret to life. It's that simple.

---

All these bizarre terms seem to be thrown into his point for no apparent reason other than fluff, as he never explains his concept of a 'life force' other than that it is some 'special type of energy' which he also fails to elaborate on. Throwing a bunch of pseudoscientific terms out without explaining them just isn't conductive to a coherent thought/point/whatever

Also,

Quote:

---

. . . they're still arguing about what electricity is!

---

Maybe it's just me, but I am pretty sure most people would agree that electricity is a current of 'extra' electrons moving from negatively charged areas to positively charged areas or something similar, though electricity as a broad term has many definitions.

Quote:

---

If you look at the rate of maturation of any animal—in other words, the ratio of the length of time it takes an animal to mature to the length of its life span—for most animals it's ten to twenty times. A horse, for example, will mature in two years and live for twenty-five to thirty years. Same thing with chimpanzees, dogs, cats—with all animals, it's at least ten to twenty times. The only exception to this rule is the human species. Even if you take ten times human maturity, which is a low figure, that gives you 180 years. If it's twenty times, then double that.

---

This man is talking complete nonsense now. Humans mature so slowly because we are extremely social, born early with under-developed brains with little instinct and have to learn almost everything from scratch. Maturation vs Life span is hardly '20 to 30x' for ANY primate. For example, chimpanzees mature in about 16 years and live to be about 30-40 years old. That's just over 2x and is directly related to high intelligence and underdeveloped brains with less instinct.

I would go on, but I am tired and it's late :)

Good points Roxxor. I agree, he is basically trying to sound as if he knows so much, but as you're quotes have shown, it is really just pseudo-scientific dribble. I mean, I suppose you could consider you're life as a battery, there are ways to get more out of it, and ways to drain it faster. That's all analogy though, making what he says baseless.

Bio-electro-magnetism, although far out, does interest me. It seems to be an expiation for chi. Chi has never been, and is unlikely to ever be scientifically measured in any way...However, millions of people can attest to feeling this "energy" or chi. I am, admittedly somewhat gullible when it comes to this because I practise Qigong and Taijiquan, which is why I appreciate opposing views.

I still think his philosophy and outlook are interesting despite the "brain-killing"-ness of it. The part about talking to the animals reminds me of a story about how all Native Americans used to be able to talk to the animals. Maybe it wasn't like a linguistic speech, but more like how he explained. Just empathetic responses. This is also highly unlikely, I still like to let myself dive off into imagination land every once in a while.

Bioelectromagnetism isn't a source of energy or anything... actually it's a drain. It refers to the electric potentials created by the active transport of ions out of and into cells in homeostasis. Nothing mysterious.

Ahh I see. With every post this guy seems to be more full of crap lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Ahh I see. With every post this guy seems to be more full of crap lol.

---

Wow, grasshopper thinks Xei is full of crap.:shock: j/k.:P

Im pretty sure those seeking enlightenment/spiritual immortality shouldn't be...cocky, that's counter intuitive no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Wow, grasshopper thinks Xei is full of crap.:shock: j/k.:P

---

Nah I mean the guy in the article. Xei is probably one of the few people on the forums with a lack of crap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Nah I mean the guy in the article. Xei is probably one of the few people on the forums with a lack of crap.

---

So you are saying he does not take craps much....i know i know that was bad.:shock:

Lack of crap as in he spews less verbal shit than most.

Lets stfu and let the thread die

I thank you for your endowment of metaphorical constipation, grasshoppa. :)

How do we know that our conciousness dies? WTF is conciousness anyways....made up of millions of little organisms and somehow it all comes together and gives a large multicellular organism like ourselves the ability to think it is self aware...observer, etc

What if the organic particles being used for consciousness is merely an instrument for us to experience on this plane of existence? There could be many theories. Dwelling into other existences that are immaterial is something that has yet to be fully discovered by science, among other things.

Although, speaking of longevity, science can now allow us to regrow organs through stem cell research. This way, your body will welcome the organ cleanly without your immune system repelling it. The likelihood of this increasing your lifespan is high, probably around 30-70 years longer. This type of research just isn't on the market on a heavy basis yet, apart from it's costs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xei

Bioelectromagnetism isn't a source of energy or anything... actually it's a drain. It refers to the electric potentials created by the active transport of ions out of and into cells in homeostasis. Nothing mysterious.

---

Bioelectromagnetism is energy. It is bioelectricity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioelectromagnetism

Basically, you just said "energy isn't a source of energy". I think we got ourselves a new Einstein here :lol: