Thread: Consciousness

Thought you may be interested... seems like an interesting and comprehensive read on the topic.

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/book_reviews/koch/

I think the truth does have something to do with that. You have brought up the most puzzling philosophical issue I know of, but I think consciousness is a function of various elements that come together and form a whole new property, just like photons create light. I can see how photons would come together and form light and how water molecules would come together and form wetness because they involve the tiny coming together and forming the greater pieces, but I don't see how neurons can fire and form consciousness. Based on the science I know, it appears that that is what is happening, but there is a missing link in my understanding of it.

Daniel C. Dennet wrote a book called Consciousness Explained. It sets out to answer the question of how the brain produces conscious experience. It is a very long book, and I have very little belief that I will get a satisfactory answer from it, but I plan to read it some time. It just sits in my apartment as I look at it out of the corner of my eye and plan on reading it.

My philosophical opinion is that science may figure out all the ways in which consciousness interacts with the brain/body while it occupies that brain/body, but will never figure out what consciousness is, as it can't be dissected, magnified, measured, or subject to any other science type activity. It won't be isolated, and therefore won't exist to science beyond the interactions it has with the physical. Understanding how the processes fire isn't going to define consciousness, it will only define how consciousness operates a live body when confined to one.

I'll try to say something before the religious zealots "bring it on" (yeah, ha. ha.).

Well from a physical point of view, the consciousness only lasts until the moment of death, so I do believe that figuring out what connects the certain points (like you said, perception, reason, etc.), will provide a great step into defining actual consciousness. This will probably be at the same time-frame we create the 'end-all' robotic being, and therefore robotic consciousness. Like I said, this is a purely physical point of view--it's purely concrete ideas we are working work now.

I think the only thing stopping us from filling in the gaps and solving the 'mystery' that is consciousness if the actual complexity of it all. But this will be discovered in due time, such as (for comparision), the discovery of cells and the creation of the cell theory. It's just a matter of research and acheivement.

amen

Originally posted by Joseph_Stalin
Well from a physical point of view, the consciousness only lasts until the moment of death

Only if you believe that conciousness does not include some source of energy which would only be transformed into another form of "itself" or as to be as percieved as somthing else. Or to remain the same on another plain or dimension.?

bradybaker,
I too had recently read an article concerning conciousness. I am not sure if it was the same one.
The end conclusion;
That there is no such thing as conciousness, but that there is nothing that concious is, just as there is no physical object that actually is Mona Lisa's smile.

The book that this came from is How The Mind Works by Steven Pinker if anyone is interested. It's pretty slow at the beginning but picks up as you go along.

Originally posted by bradybaker
The book that this came from is How The Mind Works by Steven Pinker if anyone is interested. It's pretty slow at the beginning but picks up as you go along.

Hey that is ironic. Here I new how my brain has worked this whole time. It starts out slow but remains that way

Thanks for the info Bradybaker.

That there is no such thing as conciousness, but that there is nothing that concious is, just as there is no physical object that actually is Mona Lisa's smile!? [/b]

I read a book called Sleep about the neurology of the brain during sleep and dreaming, when you are asleep you never lose conciousness, but what happens is your brain takes over and there is a chemical shift, sort of a transfer of conciousness versus a loss of it. This is why when you are knocked unconcious or when a bear hibernates, it/you doesn't dream or simply wake itself up.

Originally posted by brooks
I read a book called Sleep about the neurology of the brain during sleep and dreaming, when you are asleep you never lose conciousness, but what happens is your brain takes over and there is a chemical shift, sort of a transfer of conciousness versus a loss of it. This is why when you are knocked unconcious or when a bear hibernates, it/you doesn't dream or simply wake itself up.

I have also heard that if you are knocked unconcious or if someone is not responsive if you take their arm, lift it up in the air then let it fall, your brain will not allow it to hit your face.
If you were techniquely brain dead the arm would just fall flat onto your face.

Originally posted by bradybaker
The book that this came from is How The Mind Works by Steven Pinker if anyone is interested. It's pretty slow at the beginning but picks up as you go along.

Sounds like quite an arrogant title - but at least he admits that they cannot fully explain consciousness

We always should judge books by their titles...

Originally posted by Howetzer
I have also heard that if you are knocked unconcious or if someone is not responsive if you take their arm, lift it up in the air then let it fall, your brain will not allow it to hit your face.
If you were techniquely brain dead the arm would just fall flat onto your face.

That is because it is a natural body reflex to stop harm from coming to the body if it is capable, it is like if you try and punch yourself as hard as you can, you may think, oh thats how much my punch hurts. Without conciously knowing it youre nerves have fled as to brace for the impact. Your body is perfectly capable of defending itself against accidental self inflicted pain, whether concious or unconcious, yet there is an extent to which the body can defend itself without a concious mind steering the process.