Thread: My Manifesto of Society

Originally Posted by DreamMachine18

There is no war for us to fight; no cause worthy of our lives.

I couldn't possibly disagree anymore. What generation can have more meaning and bring about more change for mankind, then the generation that realizes we have collectively created the modern world. We created money. We created the economy. We created agriculture, new construction and suv's. And if we don't like it - own up to it - change it.

What 'war' could be more meaningful but the 'fight' to express ourselves as free human beings? It's not impossible. This is our society, and we created it in our liking. It will change when we change.

I used war as an example of human collective conscience. Because in the past war was generally fought out of necessity; rather then politics. In the great past that is, as in the defending a homeland out of necessity.

I am surprised you didn't write anything about agriculture part of this topic. I think that was the strongest point I had lol. Its like if you can not watch something die to feed yourself; you forget its value as a life and not of nourishment itself. This lessens an appreciation for all animals on the planet in general. Forget the sacrifice and live in the bliss of the slaughter, its something very strongly disconnected to the inheret human value placed on life in general.

Originally Posted by DreamMachine18

I am surprised you didn't write anything about agriculture part of this topic. I think that was the strongest point I had lol. Its like if you can not watch something die to feed yourself; you forget its value as a life and not of nourishment itself. This lessens an appreciation for all animals on the planet in general. Forget the sacrifice and live in the bliss of the slaughter, its something very strongly disconnected to the inheret human value placed on life in general.

I think all of your points are valid actually! I just felt it was important to remember that the power to change society is always ours.

About agriculture. The denial that something is sacrificed to become your food runs deep in america.

I'm not against eating meat (and that would be a long rant), but I think if you are going to eat meat, you should know where this food came from. Where this animal came from. How this animal lived. How it was killed. And be grateful. Gratitude is everything. And there is something disturbing about machines killing animals, instead of human hands. I can't even adequately explain why, but I think if we are going to kill an animal for food, it should be done with human hands. And when I say human hands I mean, for a human to be there to witness this death, and acknowledge this death. Any other way is an insult to life.

The denial of the sacrifice for your food doesn't just end with animals. Old school vegetarians are also in denial. The first vegetarian argument that most of us grew up hearing is "its wrong to kill an animal because its living".

Should we care about the plant life sacrificed for our food? Should we care about plants being living things at all? I think yes we need to. And part of our denial is the denial that plants actually are truly living things. Vegetarians didn't have adequate science back in the day, but these days we know now that plants are self aware by definition. They truly are alive. We are in denial about the life of plants and animals!

Our denial first started with words. A dead pig becomes PORK. Why don't we just call it pig, or even pig corpse? Why do we change the name? We do the same thing for plant life. We don't say "we killed a tree today" we say "we chopped down a tree today". Why? What is this denial of life? And couldn't you argue that the denial of life, is also the denial of DEATH?

Why are we too afraid to look an animal in the eyes before it dies? Because it makes us AWARE that we too will one day die.

If a young child understands that their meat comes from an animal that was sacrificed, the vegetarian idea that killing an animal for food is wrong, becomes a strange foreign idea. Becuase this child would naturally accept death as a natural part of life. And the vice versa is also true. When a child grows up ignorant of where their meat comes from, the reality shock can be so terrifying they can instantly become vegetarian over night.

I am not arguing against being a vegetarian or telling people to eat meat. I am only pointing out that many vegetarians were just as much in denial of death as "meat-eaters". The two however dealt with this denial differently.

Vegans had the right idea. It's not about the death of the animal. It's about the animals life. It's about what we are doing to animals to raise them for meat. It's about what we are doing to the environment just to have burgers. Vegans had the right idea. But they opened a can of worms that was so deep that even the vegan diet is under the same judgement. How can the holy guiltless free vegan diet be under fire? Because single crop farms are just as unholy as 'meat-factories'.

They really really are!! Nature loves diversity. And plant life loves diversity. When you take away the diverity, you leave plants vulnerable to disease and bug infestations that would normally be in check because of plant diversity. And because single crop farms did away with this plant diversity, a plant community, we substituted that plant communitys natural defense with chemicals and pesticides instead. Not to mentions we almost always destroy a diverse eco-system to grow just one species.

How we grow vegetables and fruit these days is so far removed from anything resembling nature. There are entire countries that eat fruits and vegetables that have never seen the light of day. PLANT LIFE that never ever consumes sunlight! Think about this insanity for a second. And it's interesting the same is true for their meat. These fruits and vegetables have never drank the rain. And the same is true for their meat. These fruits and vegetables aren't allowed to naturally pollinate and have "plant sex". And the same is true for their meat.

The parallels continue, and they continue because both animals and plants are of nature and our true denial isn't just with animals, but with all of nature. Both plants and animals are killed and are chopped into bits by machines, then mindlessly transported and packaged by machines.

WHERE THE PEOPLE? Where is the human hands? Where is the human interaction?






For me personally I threw out the entire vegan argument as well. The problem with the vegan argument is it says anything from an animal is wrong. It again, creates a self denial that it is wrong to 'take' from 'nature', creating a huge guilt trip. But everything, everything, everything we have, everything we eat, and everything we are is nature. Everything is and remains, the essence of the same singularity. Honey has medicinal properties that I personally use in homeopathic remedies. I am not against taking it away from bees anymore than I am against taking a fruit from a tree.

The problem is not that we take from nature. Because we will always take from nature and that is perfectly natural. The problem is we are in denial of OUR OWN NATURE. And we have manifested this denial in how we treat other living things. By even denying them the right to death by pretending they weren't alive (plant life). Or denying them sex and liberty (animal life).

Everything we have denied to our brothers and sisters, we have denied ourselves.

You blame our generation, but who raised us?? Hmmmmm??

I just read some vegan propaganda today. I read how even humanely and organically raised animals suffer because of agribusiness. And it is true. Even free range chickens get their beaks burnt off and get ground into meal when they start to lay less eggs. Etc...etc.
I agree that life feeds on life and we need to acknowledge the lives we take in order for us to survive. Plants live, animals live. I believe, however, that plants have an easier time sacrificing their lives in order for animals to survive than do animals. But maybe not. But, we need to eat, but we do not need to eat animals.
I am a vegan. Not by choice, actually. I was raised a vegetarian and so eating meat is gross for me. And eggs are gross also, just my personal preference. But I love cheese. I love pizza. But I found out last year that I am allergic to dairy. So now I am a vegan. But I think about these things, and so may people do not think about their food and where it comes from and how it has been manipulated and processed.
I would eat meat that I or a friend killed. I would only kill an animal to survive.
One time, when I was hitchhiking and in Mexico I was starving. I killed a turtle. I couldn't bring myself to chop his head off when he stuck it out of the shell, so I boiled him alive and then broke apart his shell, skinned him and got maybe a gram of meat off of him. It didn't fulfill me or save my life. And I thought about how maybe that turtle was alive for 150 years before I killed him and it did me no good. I felt so sorry for that turtle's life. I have never killed an animal since then or ate meat since then. Well... except for fish. So maybe I'm a hypocrite.