i was just wondering because i know my dreams are mine, but do my waking thoughts belong to me too? its sometimes so hard to tell. . .
:?: :?: :?:
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i was just wondering because i know my dreams are mine, but do my waking thoughts belong to me too? its sometimes so hard to tell. . .
:?: :?: :?:
Well, sometimes I have celestial/divine/whatever-you-call-them revelations, in which my thoughts come from "The Powers That Be Above", but most of the time, they are my own.
u chould mean 2 things by are ur thoughs ur own one is are u greatly influnced by other ppls opions or are u being mind controlled. i just chose the first one. i dont let others opions influce what i think well unless we both have the same opion.
i dont want to taint the survey with an explanation. the question is meant to mean whatever you think the question means, just be sure that its what you think it means.
I voted No. Just like every action you take, every thought is also predetermined. You have no say in what you think, just as you have no say in what you do. It just is.
Very dumb and rhetorical question :shakehead2:
i voted no i don't think they are because your subconcious is in the main control of your mind and you have no control over it..
I vote yes.Quote:
Originally posted by bradybaker
I voted No. Just like every action you take, every thought is also predetermined. You have no say in what you think, just as you have no say in what you do. It just is.
All thoughts are at one point are an interpretation. Then were percieved in a way I percieved them. Although altered through influence and my surroundings, my own chemical make-up and phyche presides on what I ultimatly believe. Rendering them my thoughts.
All I can say is yes, of course there are external influences because we live in a world with people and stimulation but I make all my own choices. I try to be very aware of what I am thinking and where is it coming from, what part of my personality, what are driving my motives etc. But to think all my thoughts are predetermined is just too bizarre to even consider. Maybe if I was possessed or something if that is even possible..... Sometimes I think things maybe put in your path to move you in a certain direction in life but thoughts, Na........
Peace Sensi.
i would like to know why do you think this question is dumb and meant not to be taken literally. i am very curious about how people perceive their thoughts from a sociological vantage. some people keep the perspective of their parents and think as they do throughout their lives and eventually pass that mode down to their children. others break the patterning of their individual group, for example, someone born to a devout christian or muslim family or community who converts to another faith. there are certain occupations where people \"follow in the footsteps\" of their parents (i.e., police officers), whilst there are those who would shirk the taboos of their culture and commit acts considered heinous. thinking about the source of your thoughts is important to understanding who (and/or why) you are. but i see that you thought for yourself and chose to insult the question rather than answer it.Quote:
Originally posted by Wicked
Very dumb and rhetorical question * :shakehead2:
but that's an answer in itself, aint it?
interesting that predestination is brought up. but not everyone accepts predestination. my dreams arent predetermined, unless its predetermined that i can become lucid and take an illusionary control of it (because every thought is predetermined, y'see what i mean?). i wasnt looking to bring forth that eternal debate, but looking more closely at the question, i shouldve seen my folly. so sorry.
at risk of creating an off-topic fervor, im going to agree with this (but please re-read the quote before you u-no-wut)Quote:
Originally posted by sensi
Sometimes I think things maybe put in your path to move you in a certain direction in life . . .
If you're asking "Are your thoughts origional, or are they strongly influenced by peers and society?" then I would answer yes, they are quite origional.
If you're asking "Is thought an exercise of your being?" (as I took the question) I would answer no, my being exists beyond my thoughts, I don't know that I think, but I percieve my thoughts.
Do you own your thought, an interesting question. To me: of course you do. In your dream it is simply your mind rearanging that days events, your thoughts and preseption of events. To live and to question thought is in fact to think, and to think is to own your own manufactured thought. If you are asking that to question pre-destination and fate, then that is up for debate in philosophy, but I believe we definantly control what we think and do. Naturaly our culture and peers influince desires and hobbies, but that changes nothing to you owning your mind.
Once these thougths are percieved, then what takes place? A void?Quote:
Originally posted by Belesarius
If you're asking \"Is thought an exercise of your being?\" (as I took the question) I would answer no, my being exists beyond my thoughts, I don't know that I think, but I percieve my thoughts.
A response which would include the thought process that we use to determine our actions.
I don't see why the thought process would not be considered an exercise of your being. Any action takes a thought process weather it be in the form of an emotion or a task.
All thoughts are at one point are an interpretation. Then were percieved in a way I percieved them. Although altered through influence and my surroundings, my own chemical make-up and phyche presides on what I ultimatly believe. Rendering them my thoughts.
The thoughts that enter your head are created by your subconcious, not by your actual soul but you decide what to do with them you can get rid of them or just change it into a motivation without the brain you can't think but you can still have a free will but you wouldent be able to use it. The soul needs clothing to work and that clothing is the body.
So what is interpreting those thoughts?Quote:
Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>Quote:
<!--QuoteBegin-Belesarius
Once these thougths are percieved, then what takes place? A void?Quote:
If you're asking \"Is thought an exercise of your being?\" (as I took the question) I would answer no, my being exists beyond my thoughts, I don't know that I think, but I percieve my thoughts.
A response which would include the thought process that we use to determine our actions.
I don't see why the thought process would not be considered an exercise of your being. Any action takes a thought process weather it be in the form of an emotion or a task.
All thoughts are at one point are an interpretation. Then were percieved in a way I percieved them. Although altered through influence and my surroundings, my own chemical make-up and phyche presides on what I ultimatly believe. Rendering them my thoughts.[/b]
I think the essense of what we are is behind the thought process and even the will, it is what percieves the thoughts and the sensations, but I don't think it is what creates the thoughts. The soul percieves and the brain interprets. The thoughts in my head are the product of a process outside of myself and are brought before myself, the percieving entity. This is the soul, this is what we really are.
I think this is evidenced by the fact that you can't really control your thoughts, they just sort of flow(or are at least predetermined by other causes). Also, when you think about it everything that you identify as yourself is just an object before your perception.
Maybe it's incorrect to say that your thoughts aren't of yourself, but you should separate your percieving self from your thinking, acting self.
Are the thoughts unique to you? Yes. But were they created by you, not exactly. Your most recent thought is simply the product of 13.7 billion years of chemical and physical reactions.Quote:
Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>Quote:
<!--QuoteBegin-bradybaker
I vote yes.Quote:
I voted No. Just like every action you take, every thought is also predetermined. You have no say in what you think, just as you have no say in what you do. It just is.
All thoughts are at one point are an interpretation. Then were percieved in a way I percieved them. Although altered through influence and my surroundings, my own chemical make-up and phyche presides on what I ultimatly believe. Rendering them my thoughts[/b]
"The soul percieves and the brain interprets"Quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Belisarius)</div>Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Howetzer@
<!--QuoteBegin-Belesarius
So what is interpreting those thoughts?Quote:
Quote:
If you're asking \"Is thought an exercise of your being?\" (as I took the question) I would answer no, my being exists beyond my thoughts, I don't know that I think, but I percieve my thoughts.
Once these thougths are percieved, then what takes place? A void?
A response which would include the thought process that we use to determine our actions.
I don't see why the thought process would not be considered an exercise of your being. Any action takes a thought process weather it be in the form of an emotion or a task.
All thoughts are at one point are an interpretation. Then were percieved in a way I percieved them. Although altered through influence and my surroundings, my own chemical make-up and phyche presides on what I ultimatly believe. Rendering them my thoughts.
I think the essense of what we are is behind the thought process and even the will, it is what percieves the thoughts and the sensations, but I don't think it is what creates the thoughts. The soul percieves and the brain interprets. The thoughts in my head are the product of a process outside of myself and are brought before myself, the percieving entity. This is the soul, this is what we really are.
I think this is evidenced by the fact that you can't really control your thoughts, they just sort of flow(or are at least predetermined by other causes). Also, when you think about it everything that you identify as yourself is just an object before your perception.
Maybe it's incorrect to say that your thoughts aren't of yourself, but you should separate your percieving self from your thinking, acting self.[/b]
I think the eyes see and the brain interprets. In order to have a thought there has to be somthing to percieve, objects. Wether it is a deception, reality or whatever your consciousness is the medium through which your thoughts are to be percieved. At least that is my take.
If you feel they are coming from your soul then we percieve & interpret things in a differant way.
And I always felt that it was a natural human egoic entity to have thought pattern process rather than, Brought before me. So although your brain is always being inudated with thoughts does not mean you cannot control them.
What would you consider your soul? And is this where the thoughts are derived?
:)
very good point. just about everyone seems to agree about the external influences, what about innate or internal influences? there's the food/foe response, then fight/flee; male/female (mating), etc. these decisions originate in the older reptile brain and they influence all our interactions, not only with other people but everything. but what about the austere, brave, and celibate? what would influence someone to ignore these influences? do some of us not have the capability to go against not only our social influences, but the even older ones, while others can?Quote:
Originally posted by bradybaker
Are the thoughts unique to you? Yes. But were they created by you, not exactly. Your most recent thought is simply the product of 13.7 billion years of chemical and physical reactions.
ive fasted before and i can say from experience that the first three days i felt hunger, then the last seven days i thought "eating". i would want to eat not from hunger but habit. in the morning i wanted coffee and a muffin, lunchtime a sandwich and a snack, dinner was anything. i knew i was fasting, but my body/brain was still saying "but dont you usually eat this right now?" that was the hardest part of it, but i was able to keep my fast. (10 days, no food) i learned more about how my thoughts worked from that experience than any other i can think of.
\"The soul percieves and the brain interprets\"Quote:
Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Belisarius)
Quote:
<!--QuoteBegin-Howetzer
Quote:
@
<!--QuoteBegin-Belesarius
So what is interpreting those thoughts?Quote:
Quote:
If you're asking \"Is thought an exercise of your being?\" (as I took the question) I would answer no, my being exists beyond my thoughts, I don't know that I think, but I percieve my thoughts.
Once these thougths are percieved, then what takes place? A void?
A response which would include the thought process that we use to determine our actions.
I don't see why the thought process would not be considered an exercise of your being. Any action takes a thought process weather it be in the form of an emotion or a task.
All thoughts are at one point are an interpretation. Then were percieved in a way I percieved them. Although altered through influence and my surroundings, my own chemical make-up and phyche presides on what I ultimatly believe. Rendering them my thoughts.
I think the essense of what we are is behind the thought process and even the will, it is what percieves the thoughts and the sensations, but I don't think it is what creates the thoughts. The soul percieves and the brain interprets. The thoughts in my head are the product of a process outside of myself and are brought before myself, the percieving entity. This is the soul, this is what we really are.
I think this is evidenced by the fact that you can't really control your thoughts, they just sort of flow(or are at least predetermined by other causes). Also, when you think about it everything that you identify as yourself is just an object before your perception.
Maybe it's incorrect to say that your thoughts aren't of yourself, but you should separate your percieving self from your thinking, acting self.[/b]
I think the eyes see and the brain interprets. In order to have a thought there has to be somthing to percieve, objects. Wether it is a deception, reality or whatever your consciousness is the medium through which your thoughts are to be percieved. At least that is my take.
If you feel they are coming from your soul then we percieve & interpret things in a diffeerant way.
And I always felt that it wasa natural human egoic entity to have thought pattern process rather than, Brought before me. So although your brain is always being inudated with thoughts does not mean you cannot control them.
What would you consider your soul? And is this where the thoughts are derived?
:)[/b][/quote]
The soul is that which percieves. This is not where thoughts are derived, but where they are percieved. I don't think you understood my post. The "soul" is the very definition of who we are, our essence is there, not in thought.
Quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius
The soul is that which percieves. This is not where thoughts are derived, but where they are percieved. I don't think you understood my post. The \"soul\" is the very definition of who we are, our essence is there, not in thought.
like predeterminism, the view of a "soul" is subjective. some may say that our biology/physiology is more of our "definition" than anything else, encoded instructions for survival in our DNA may be more behind everything we do than anything else. it may even be the reason we eventually chose to create terms like "soul" to explain aspects of ourselves that we couldnt understand at the time (and that we still may not fully understand).
Quote:
Originally posted by shel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shel)</div>Quote:
<!--QuoteBegin-Belisarius
Quote:
The soul is that which percieves. This is not where thoughts are derived, but where they are percieved. I don't think you understood my post. The \"soul\" is the very definition of who we are, our essence is there, not in thought.
like predeterminism, the view of a \"soul\" is subjective. some may say that our biology/physiology is more of our \"definition\" than anything else, encoded instructions for survival in our DNA may be more behind everything we do than anything else. it may even be the reason we eventually chose to create terms like \"soul\" to explain aspects of ourselves that we couldnt understand at the time (and that we still may not fully understand).[/b]
So your soul is what? Your brain, your heart as some believe. This is very illusory.Quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius
The soul is that which percieves. This is not where thoughts are derived, but where they are percieved. I don't think you understood my post. The \"soul\" is the very definition of who we are, our essence is there, not in thought.
"It is our essence" Meaning something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity? Again subjective.
And who does own our thoughts?
A very interesting topic.
I don't know how the soul is manifest physically, when I refer to the soul I refer only to its subjective aspects, not its physical ones. It is impossible to know, or to even gain insight into the objective nature of the soul as it is only manifest to us as logical necessity, we percieve and so there must be something percieving. That something is the 'I', and it does not necessarily think.Quote:
Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by shel@
<!--QuoteBegin-Belisarius
Quote:
Quote:
The soul is that which percieves. This is not where thoughts are derived, but where they are percieved. I don't think you understood my post. The \"soul\" is the very definition of who we are, our essence is there, not in thought.
like predeterminism, the view of a \"soul\" is subjective. some may say that our biology/physiology is more of our \"definition\" than anything else, encoded instructions for survival in our DNA may be more behind everything we do than anything else. it may even be the reason we eventually chose to create terms like \"soul\" to explain aspects of ourselves that we couldnt understand at the time (and that we still may not fully understand).
So your soul is what? Your brain, your heart as some believe. This is very illusory.Quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius
The soul is that which percieves. This is not where thoughts are derived, but where they are percieved. I don't think you understood my post. The \"soul\" is the very definition of who we are, our essence is there, not in thought.
\"It is our essence\" Meaning something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity? Again subjective.
And who does own our thoughts?
A very interesting topic.[/b]
If 'I', does not think what does?Quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius
I don't know how the soul is manifest physically, when I refer to the soul I refer only to its subjective aspects, not its physical ones. It is impossible to know, or to even gain insight into the objective nature of the soul as it is only manifest to us as logical necessity, we percieve and so there must be something percieving. That something is the 'I', and it does not necessarily think.
The enitity of ones self has a lableing process. And as it percieves, it labels. That's what gives birth to 'you'. It could be an obscure view of reality or it could be any number of things but I have trouble with the conclusion that the egoic eninity does not process information.
Is that not the question that this thread initially asked? With that rhetorical question, you're assuming what you're trying to prove.Quote:
If 'I', does not think what does?[/b]
[quote]Quote:
If 'I', does not think what does?
The enitity of ones self has a lableing process. And as it percieves, it labels. That's what gives birth to 'you'. It could be an obscure view of reality or it could be any number of things but I have trouble with the conclusion that the egoic eninity does not process information.