That simply isn't true. It isn't creating anything from nothing, and it isn't magic. Its science. |
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Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-21-2010 at 08:06 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
That simply isn't true. It isn't creating anything from nothing, and it isn't magic. Its science. |
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Last edited by Alric; 03-21-2010 at 09:55 AM.
Actually, Alric; it is theoretically possible for macroscopic things to exhibit quantum type fluctuations, though it is incredibly (incredibly) unlikely. One example of a theorized example of this is Hawking Radiation. I know of a physics teacher that spent (or spends, I don't know if he still teaches) unusually large amounts of class walking into the wall trying to demonstrate that it is possible to tunnel. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Exactly, its so unlikely that it would never happen, and if it ever did, no one would believe the story anyway. So you can't really use the absense of it having every happened as proof of anything. Since you are unlikely to ever see it, and even if it really did happen you would never know. |
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Last edited by Alric; 03-21-2010 at 04:30 PM.
Well, the consciousness dependent interpretations of quantum mechanics are consistent with the claims of yogic traditions that it is possible to fly, walk through walls, travel instantly to any point in time and space, etc. etc. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-21-2010 at 10:27 AM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Well that is why we are on the philosophy board, and not the science one. Though I think free will can be shown scientifically. Since it is observable, that people can and do make choices. |
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Last edited by Xei; 03-21-2010 at 05:04 PM.
Yes, exactly, BUT. In the real, physical system we live in, theoretic-chaos is an extent of determinism. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
Xaqaria, thank you for illustrating how so many quantum physicists have taken true data and formed an illogical conclusion. I agree with the raw experimental findings and the idea of human inability to make totally accurate predictions, but I do not agree with the common misconception that the data and the human inability to predict it proves randomness. It is in fact a common analysis among quantum physicists. |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 03-21-2010 at 06:06 PM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
There seems to be a major misconception going on here. |
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The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve. ~ Buddha
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Nah. Just because you can't replicate it doesn't mean it doesn't exist/isn't true. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
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Last edited by Xei; 03-21-2010 at 06:50 PM.
You completely missed the point of this analogy. The point that was being made was that through examinations of the watches function, one can infer all sorts of rules that govern the watch's behavior and these rules can be incredibly accurate at predicting future behavior, but at no point can we peel back the face of the watch to see if our ideas of how the watch works actually correspond to what is really inside the watch. This means that any set of rules that we come up with are inevitably only a construct of the mind that is used to predict future outcomes to varying degrees of accuracy. It is impossible to know how close our picture is to reality, only whether or not it is capable of prediction. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-21-2010 at 08:57 PM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Eventually it gets traced back to pure observation of something very simple and so obvious that nobody even questions it, like the fact that one's own thoughts exist. The entire house of cards rests on such a premise. If the premise turns out to be wrong, then reality is not what we thought and everything we thought we knew was wrong. However, the randomness of particle behavior is not that type of premise. It is much more complex and questionable. Also, the idea involves identifiable inconsistencies with logic. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
I believe that everything that we do, have done, or will ever do can be conjectured using math if you knew the state of the universe at a particular moment. Everything in the universe is dependent on the vibration os strings. The strings can only vibrate one way according to physics, hence, everything that ever happened, is happening, or will ever happen was pre-decided at the instant of the big bang. Kind of a downer. |
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You know damn well that I have used a great deal of analysis and syllogistic argument in my posts. Stop lying. Just stick to trying to countering my points. Your bizarrre personal insults get you nowhere other than making you look stumped and frustrated. |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 03-21-2010 at 07:49 PM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
I guess it does. I've been studying college level math and physics. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Cool. I did that too. My point about Euclidian geometry stands. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Its like you think you can ignore my entire post and then accuse me of 'not countering points' like it is going to convince me that its true. This is especially ironic because it has been clearly pointed out to you what specific logical fallacy you are guilty of (circular reasoning) and your response didn't amount to more than, "nuh uh.." |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 03-21-2010 at 08:59 PM.
Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Just something I'd like to explain. Dictionary writers are not Physics PhDs. Mass is a property of a given physical object, not a quantity of object. Yes, it's true you can express the quantity of an object through its mass, because some objects have a strict correlation between their mass and their quantity, but it's a conceptual mistake to think mass is quantity. |
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Saying quantum physics explains cognitive processes is just like saying geology explains jurisprudence.
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Last edited by Xei; 03-21-2010 at 09:56 PM.
WTF? I addressed your little spec of scientific argument. The rest of your post was just a personal insult. That is so weak. |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 03-21-2010 at 10:49 PM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Quantum physics doesn't disagree with determinism if you think of it outside of the 4 normal dimensions. Quantum physics usually deals with particles, not strings. A vibration of a 12 dimensional string can cause particles to jump around in 3D space. |
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Last edited by ninja9578; 03-21-2010 at 11:13 PM.
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