Thread: Faith

Not sure exactly what you're arguing, but anyway, I've experience the second kind of faith quite frequently -- in fact, that's what most of my "religion" is based on. I believe what I have experienced.

Usually, faith=trust. Being proveworthy emantes an opportunity to exercise faith.

Of course, it can be a spontaneous thing, like having a very deep desire met from something or someone.

Faith is many things. For me faith is also /hope/ and belief in the human inner innate goodness (buddha nature, neh? ) Truely believing in that results in many different things in turn aswell.

Originally posted by Potential
Faith as small as a mustard seed can move a mountain, but most people can't even move the mustard seed, so what faith do they have?

I don't need faith to move mustard seeds. I can observe the situation, draw logical conclusions and determine that I can just use my hands.

The kingdom of god is like a little child, ignorant and whiney.

^ So do drugs.

And for the record, I could probably figure out a way to move a mountain too, it would take a while though.

Originally posted by bradybaker
And for the record, I could probably figure out a way to move a mountain too, it would take a while though.

Explosives!

..... What do I win? Enlightenment?

-spoon

You won a lubricated spoon.

Originally posted by Potential
You won a lubricated spoon.

There is no spoon.

Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div>

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Faith as small as a mustard seed can move a mountain, but most people can't even move the mustard seed, so what faith do they have?

I don't need faith to move mustard seeds. I can observe the situation, draw logical conclusions and determine that I can just use my hands.[/b]

You need faith that you observed the situation correctly, that your conclusions were well-founded, and that you actually can move and did move the mustard seeds.


Faith is, by my definition, belief without reason. It is the foundation upon which almost all knowledge claims are made.

^ Ultimately, yes. But I hope you don't live your life that way.

Faith is belief in something. Uncompromised belief. Faith is something that is true to yourself, although it might not be to others. One thing I don't get is when people say " I don't have believe in evolution because it compromises my faith in religion. ". The facts are there, and if you have faith in something, who cares what science says? I have faith in reincarnation. Who cares what others say?

^ You should.

Why? It's what I believe in. You should only change your faith when you have reason to do so...For yourself. Not because someone tells you you should.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
Why? It's what I believe in. You should only change your faith when you have reason to do so...For yourself. Not because someone tells you you should.

:bravo:

Why? It's what I believe in. You should only change your faith when you have reason to do so...For yourself. Not because someone tells you you should.[/b]

I've always thought that you should use your damn brain, compare ideas and believe in the one that most logically fits the situation. It is pure intellectual irresponsibility to just believe in whatever makes you feel good. No one can tell you what to believe in, but I think you owe it to yourself to at least attempt to rise from ignorance. Closemindedness only gets people burned at the stake.

I would think that it would take a good deal of open mindedness to choose for yourself what you want to believe by not purely basing your beliefs on what you told. And as for logic and science, that changes as often as what people say changes. I agree that you should use your brain, assuming it's not just dust in which case you should hire a maid, but that's not the only thing we have at our disposal. So many great leaps in thought have been made simply by someone following their gut feelings until they reached a reasonable conclusion that they can live with. And living is the most important element of all this, if you can't live with something science or just another person's beliefs have told you then the reasonable thing to do is discard it. There's no reason to try to force it down your own throat if you don't agree with something. But back to topic.
Faith is a belief you hold inside. It frees you of worry and allows you to simply feel that something "is" without question, though I do believe that questions are good. As Socrates said, The unexamined life is not worth living. Still, there are some things that, as a person, we can feel are assured and move on. We need not worry about everything and I think it adds depth to a person to have something they've considered and decided to go against science, religion, or common belief in order to believe it.
Just my thoughts.....

Originally posted by Fallen.Rain+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fallen.Rain)</div>

as for logic and science, that changes as often as what people say changes.[/b]

You are misunderstanding what logic and science are.

Originally posted by Fallen.Rain@
if you can't live with something science or just another person's beliefs have told you then the reasonable thing to do is discard it.

I wholeheartedly disagree. You can't go around choosing beliefs based on utility. I can't just 'not accept' gravity one day and decide to float around.

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We need not worry about everything and I think it adds depth to a person to have something they've considered and decided to go against science, religion, or common belief in order to believe it.

If the belief is an accurate portrayal of reality it adds wisdom. If not, it adds ignorance. I'm not saying I know which is which. But I am certainly always trying to figure it out.

If the belief is an accurate portrayal of reality it adds wisdom. If not, it adds ignorance. I'm not saying I know which is which. But I am certainly always trying to figure it out.[/b]

Isn't reality your perception of it? Nobody's reality is the same as anyone els's. In your faith, it's based on what you percieve reality to be like. If it's practical for you to believe something (if it helps you to be a better person, helps you work out problems, ect.) than believe it. Most people do use their brains when they choose their faiths.....Nobody is going to choose something that absolutely doesn't help them in any way, unless they are just using it to shock people. Your faith is a reflection of yourself. Not science; Not anyone else; Yourself!

I think the most important thing is your actions/beliefs do not harm yourself, others or your surroundings in any way. Best is of course f you would bring good things to the above three ^_^ Otherwise just believe whatever makes you happy and comfortable. Scientific aproach, religious, spiritual..something in between, whatever

Originally posted by Lucius
I think the most important thing is your actions/beliefs do not harm yourself, others or your surroundings in any way. Best is of course f you would bring good things to the above three ^_^ Otherwise just believe whatever makes you happy and comfortable. Scientific aproach, religious, spiritual..something in between, whatever

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

Originally posted by Lucius
I think the most important thing is your actions/beliefs do not harm yourself, others or your surroundings in any way. Best is of course f you would bring good things to the above three ^_^ Otherwise just believe whatever makes you happy and comfortable. Scientific aproach, religious, spiritual..something in between, whatever

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
Why? It's what I believe in. You should only change your faith when you have reason to do so...For yourself. Not because someone tells you you should.

That kind of attitude is close-minded and is what perpetuates all major religions. All people of faith completely ignore reason at some point in their justification of their beliefs. You should only have faith when you have reason to do so.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwendolyn)</div>

Isn't reality your perception of it?[/b]

Your perception of reality may differ from someone else's, but reality itself does not change. There is only one reality. Otherwise the people that believe in gravity would be stuck on the ground while those that don't would be free to float around.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwendolyn)</div>

If it's practical for you to believe something (if it helps you to be a better person, helps you work out problems, ect.) than believe it.[/b]

If that works for you, great. But it is extremely intellectually irresponsible.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
Nobody is going to choose something that absolutely doesn't help them in any way, unless they are just using it to shock people.

A belief should never be chosen, only discovered. If that belief doesn't help you in any way, so be it. Why would you need a belief to help you anyways? Sounds like a crutch to me.

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just believe whatever makes you happy and comfortable.

I really couldn't disagree more. In fact this mode of thinking aggravates me incredibly. That's nothing more than a license to remain ignorant.

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That kind of attitude is close-minded and is what perpetuates all major religions. All people of faith completely ignore reason at some point in their justification of their beliefs. You should only have faith when you have reason to do so.

Couldn't have put it better myself.