I think of it more this way. |
|
From the beginning of time everything that will happen in each of our lives was already planned out. Whether by Evolution, God, or whatever, everything that we have ever done or everything that we are going to do was already decided for us. So the question is, even though our lives were previously decided for us, do we really have a choice in any of our actions? For example: Say you had a choice between going through door #1, or door #2, and you choose to go through door #1, have you really made the choice? It was predestined that you would go through that door, so how much of the decision was really in your hands? And, if everything is predestined, and no-one has a choice about anything, then why are we here? What is the purpose of our existance? Yeah, I know, I'm going off on a tangent, but this shit really bothers me. |
|
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
I think of it more this way. |
|
I disagree with your view of predestination, (EDIT: Chaos' - however, I also do not believe in free will. We have no choice in our decisions, in my opinion, but there is also an element of randominity in life that means our paths cannot be predetermined. |
|
Well you said you disagree with either mine or chaos' view of predestination. |
|
Oh yeah... bugger... I'll edit my posts to make it more clear. |
|
But couldn't the randomness itself be predetermined? Everything that happens in the universe was bound to happen. It was predetermined b/c it was set in stone before we even came into the equation. I was predestined to be born, to live, to die, and make numerous decisions that actually weren't my choices at all, but were already chosen for me. I don't see how it could be impossible for the universe itself to predetermine a person's choices. Its not like a person or God is just sitting behind the controls, and moving us around (though it seems like that sometimes). It seems as if we have absolutely no choices to make in terms of our own lives, b/c in the creation of the universe, they were already decided for us. We have no free will, b/c destiny takes it away. |
|
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
I totally understand what you're saying. We're obviously decades, possibly centuries away from finding out about the nature of randomness (I checked, it's a word...). Until then, it's just assumption. And I'm assuming that random means... well... random. |
|
I'm kind of the opposite of Howetzer (big surprize, huh, Howie?): I see no possible source of free will, without resortiing to supernatural explanations, therefore Ii believe it is an illusion created by our consciousness;it is a story that we tell ourselves as our lives happen. Whether things are predetermined or random has no effect on whether there is free will or not. There is probably an element of both, i.e. classic and quantum physics. |
|
Neurologically speaking their is no free will as your synapeses fire and this causes your action. You can't control your neurons so you can't control your actions. Even if you did control your neurons you will have neurons controlling neurons, which still leaves you with no free will. Also even if everything was random then it wouldn't give yourself free will like a coin is random does this give the coin free will. Randomness is about statistics not choice so having so statistically complex would not give it free will as the choice would be random hence taking away the will. |
|
Xaqaria
The planet Earth exhibits all of these properties and therefore can be considered alive and its own single organism by the scientific definition.does the planet Earth reproduce, well no unless you count the moon.7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms.
It's really impossible to act in accordance with a perfectly deterministic point of view - which isn't to say you can't have that point of view, but when you move to act, it has to be thrown out the window. An assumption of free will, indeterminacy, whatever has to exist when you decide upon a course of action; this follows from you being necessarily unable to know all the preexisting conditions shaping that action. Trying to wrap your mind around what deciding something would be like if you could predict ahead of time what that decision would be is futile; that kind of knowledge is impossible to have. |
|
Adopted by Richter
|
|
|
|
Xaqaria
The planet Earth exhibits all of these properties and therefore can be considered alive and its own single organism by the scientific definition.does the planet Earth reproduce, well no unless you count the moon.7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms.
I completely understand your point. Although I don't disagree with it, when you strip the question down to it's most fundamental stage, which you have done and answered, then the topic is closed. |
|
|
|
Xaqaria
The planet Earth exhibits all of these properties and therefore can be considered alive and its own single organism by the scientific definition.does the planet Earth reproduce, well no unless you count the moon.7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms.
Keep in mind the compatibilist notion of free will - which is simply, a state in which you are able to fulfill the wants, desires, needs that arise from your character. Your character itself is determined, and the things you do to actualize it are determined, but this makes pragmatically a lot more sense, because we are still inclined to call an average US citizen more "free" than an inmate. |
|
Adopted by Richter
Pre-destination adheres to the fact that there is an intelligent being deciding our lives for us. Yes, we do have the free will to decide our lives from moment to moment. The whole subject is illogical, you can't answer this question unless you get to live life more than once or change decisions you've made in the past. If you do not believe in an all-powerful being that decides our lives for us, then we are not pre-determined nor do we have free will, we have the ability to experience our lives the way they happen to be. |
|
I'm gonna go with "predestination". It's the master-key of excuses. |
|
I'm not sure I'm following. "The ability to experience our lives the way they happen to be" sounds a lot like saying "we get to see what we see," or "I am what I am," it's self-referential mundanity. If not uncaused/free action and if not determined action, then what remains? |
|
Adopted by Richter
Well, I guess I'm not sure how I view free will at the moment. If you have the free will to make a decision, shouldn't you be able to change that decision whenever you feel like it? It doesn't seem like free will to me that if you make a decision, it is set in stone. That would make the rest of your life pre-determined by the past decisions you made. I'm going to try and draw what I am saying because I know this doesn't make much sense. |
|
Bookmarks