Thread: Let's talk Taoism.

I haven't read Schrodinger's Cat yet, but I love the Tao te Ching. As far as philosophies go it was one of the biggest influences on my own way of thinking. The gist of it is summed up well on the very first page. "The Tao that can be named is not the constant Tao". On the surface, it makes the claim that the Way is not something that can be found through the intellectual realm of language. Deeper down it makes an important distinction between what is real and what is just our own self-created ideals, and how much of an abstraction these ideals are. Personally this idea has been a profoundly positive influence on me, though it is a difficult mindset to fully adopt.

So killing random babies isn't evil? Making shoes for orphans isn't good?

I don't know anything about Taoism but from the sounds of it it just means 'moral subjectivism'.

I think words are created by humans to have a use. Good and evil without conscious interpretation is, I think, a contradiction. I think... human consciousness is real and adversely influencing the consciousnesses of others is evil whereas a positive influence is good. These concepts are just as real as consciousness, although if no consciousness exists, they don't have any use.

It's like, I don't know... television programmes. They're real, although if there weren't any televisions in the world the concept wouldn't mean much to anybody.

Actually, I'd agree with you on the language thing. I think words are an essential part of our evolution as a conscious species. I just think that idealism happens to be a bad side effect of language. Well maybe not idealism as a whole, but the thought that the world is somehow wrong because it doesn't fit our ideals. The universe is what it is from moment to moment. We can believe whatever we want but the random and chaotic nature of life doesn't give a shit about our ideals. The most we can do is act with authenticity to make the world a self-defined "better" place. Or not, depending on one's own values.

At any rate I'm not claiming anything I say to be true or valid in any way on an objective level, besides if I did I'd just be strolling over the hot coals of hypocrisy. Its just a school of thought that helps me live better on a personal level. The idea of dealing with the world as it is from moment to moment, be it 'good' or 'bad', has rid me of a lot of cognitive dissonance over the last few months.

If you guys are interested, here's the Tao of Physics PDF.

The Tao of Physics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source...x62drpIlOIvdaQ

Sounds interesting, I've never heard of that one. I'll give it a read sometime soon.

I once met a hippie, he changed my life.
I was out one night with my friends and then we saw this guy who looked like a loyal and friendly homeless type of guy.
My friends yell "Hi! I like the dreads you got in your beard" (In a friendly kind of way) and then we started talking.

He talked about how he just got caught by the police for playing his guitar with song about the gouvernment and he started to talk about his believes, i got tears in my eyes and i felt the hair on my arms rising. He's thoughts and believes were just like mine! Now you might think "Hey! Taoism here!" I'll get there

I asked him how he ended up like a homeless-hippie-rebel. He told me he lived his life just like any other normal person going to school, having a good family and friends but then i saw that there was something wrong with the system we live in. People spending there lifes in misery and sorrow, having a job that they hate going to and unhappy with life in general.
So he started seeking answers and became a taoist, he just own a bicycle, a guitar, some fruits (he was vegeterian), some water and his book about taoism.

The next day i went to the library and brought me the book home since i thought it would take some time to read, it didn't. I read and read, couldn't let it good. To interesting to just close and go and do something else. And i must say that taoism got something to it

The Tao which can be spoken is not the true Tao.

In considering "the uncarved block" it is important to remember that the Tao is also "the way" or "the road." Movement is irresistible in the nature of our experience. The Tao is foremost awareness: recognizing where you are, the forces moving towards and through you, and the roads open before you.

Originally Posted by RCLefty

The Tao which can be spoken is not the true Tao.

that may be true but not everyone, more like no one, can just automatically see the truth. it needs to be explained somehow...

i thought it was very insightful, thankyou=)

Originally Posted by linxx

that may be true but not everyone, more like no one, can just automatically see the truth. it needs to be explained somehow...

i thought it was very insightful, thankyou=)

It is funny that Lao Tzu starts his book with the quote "The Tao that can be said/named is not the Eternal Tao" and then follows the rest of the book telling what the Tao is. Because even though it cannot be said, he still has to try for our sakes, but he starts the book with that disclaimer. Remember that about any belief system you adopt, that it isn't true. Keep the beginner's mind, which is essentially the Taoist.

The Tao is the way, the road, El Camino, the path, etc.. It is the watercourse way, the river. The river flows and all you have to do is let go and go with the flow. Of course we are human, and we get caught up on snags, like infatuations, jealousies, self-importance, fear, hope, greed, etc.... These are all snags that take us out of the flow.

Of course this is the Spirit of the mystical Tao. But Taoism has absorbed the common folk religious beliefs of China and has incorporated ancestral spirits, sorcery, and superstitions, etc. The spirit of the Tao is the same ultimate Truth that is the spirit of other mysticisms, like Buddhism. Taoist principles can be applied to anything. This is how kung fu came into being. This is how Tai Chi and Chi Gung came into being (Chi Kung/Qi Gong is great!).

Personally, I cannot find any words truer or purer ever expressed than in the Tao Te Ching. Taoism greatly influenced Zen. Zen and Taoism both are precious teachings. Two of the three highest teachings ever in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Personally, I cannot find any words truer or purer ever expressed than in the Tao Te Ching. Taoism greatly influenced Zen. Zen and Taoism both are precious teachings. Two of the three highest teachings ever in my opinion.

What's the third?

The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It regrets nothing. It receives, but does not keep. - Chuang Tzu

I've found that Taoism is essentially relaying the same thought that Buddhism is: Non-duality. That is to say, that all types of attachment are the root of pain and pleasure.

I'm currently reading The Secret of The Golden Flower with commentary by C. Jung. I'll see what I get from there.

Originally Posted by linxx

What's the third?

The third, and best, in my opinion, is Dzogchen: the Great Perfection! Very similar to Tao and Zen, but with subtle distinctions that set it slightly higher.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The third, and best, in my opinion, is Dzogchen: the Great Perfection! Very similar to Tao and Zen, but with subtle distinctions that set it slightly higher.

Duly noted. So a concept of Buddhism - it appears in the Tibetan Yogas of Dreams and Sleep. Is this a specific work?

Sounds like there is a great deal of nihilism in there. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Pheenix

Sounds like there is a great deal of nihilism in there. Interesting.

Ontological nihilism perhaps, but nothing despairing. Both Buddhism and Taoism hold that the world as we experience it is illusory, that our conditioned view is so delusional that it is at least as correct to say that forms, including ourselves, do not exist as it is to claim that they do. The emptiness of form, however, is corollary to the intense connectedness of the total field of being. We give up ourselves in order to become--or acknowledge that we have always been--the eyes of the universe looking upon itself. It's nothing to be upset about.

I should stop trying to speak where I can't, haha. I thought nihilism was exactly the opposite of attaching emotions to phenomena or lack thereof?

It depends on its specific use. In its general sense, it is to deny the existence of (or manner in which it is conceptualised) a supposed aspect of life. Casually, it's used with inherent emotional negativity that's not present in the Tao or Buddhist way.

I may be wrong, however.

Originally Posted by MrTransitory

It depends on its specific use. In its general sense, it is to deny the existence of (or manner in which it is conceptualised) a supposed aspect of life. Casually, it's used with inherent emotional negativity that's not present in the Tao or Buddhist way.

I may be wrong, however.

My Eastern philosophy is sharper than my Western, but yes, that's what I was getting at

The Buddha used negative terms to say what we are not, not what we are. It is up to us to find out what we are. This is not nihilism, just the skillful language of a Buddha, or Lao Tzu.