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    Thread: So, I think Christians are stupid.

    1. #126
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Perhaps I don't know what real is, but I know you can't just make it up.
      Did the current followers of any extant religion "just make it up?" Did any generation of followers of any extant religion "just make it up" in its current form? If you think you can realistically answer "yes" to either of those questions, then you may as well say we just made up our physiology, not to mention every aspect of our culture and technology. Yes, we made it all up, including the fundamental misconception that we are independent entities operating in a world of forms. To say so doesn't place religion outside the realm of the real. Deities, demons, mathematics and literary criticism are as real as you or me: somewhat, but not particularly.

      In terms of agency, influence and longevity, most deities are considerably more real than you and me.
      If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama



    2. #127
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      No.
      I stomp on your ideas.

    3. #128
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      The thing about these illusions from the brain, why in an NDE does it always seem to be around the person having the illusion, instead of them being 3rd person seeing the illusion? they always see these things and they are always trying to make the illusion real for you. Like it talks to you, not to someone else.

      I've had illusions before. I played Call of Duty for too long a while ago and my whole room literally turned into a cod 4 map, i saw no door in my room or window, it was like i was actually there... it was an empty map, though. But i was seeing this like i was standing up in the map rather then up high.

      Anyway...

      With NDE's the illusions are always talking to you specifically. You don't see conversations between people and other things ignoring your presence in the area, atleast not that i have read and i have read alot about these in the past. Aren't illusions supposed to be with you and without you? Can someone explain to me why this happens? in dreams you are 1st person., or 3rd person but these lack of oxygen illusions always are only for you to interact with, instead of for you to view.

    4. #129
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      I am pretty much open to anything, however this caught my eye one day on TV and was very interesting.

      Check out this documentary, about many "smart" christian scientists.

      Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    5. #130
      Xei
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      You should be a bit more careful when you watch those kind of things, because it isn't a documentary, it's a notorious piece of creationist propaganda which could only possibly exist in a country like America.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      You should be a bit more careful when you watch those kind of things, because it isn't a documentary, it's a notorious piece of creationist propaganda which could only possibly exist in a country like America.
      You're amazing Xei.
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    7. #132
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      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      You're amazing Xei.
      He's absolutely correct on both counts: Expelled is notorious, and it's propaganda. The Discovery Institute is a despicable organization that sows division, actively sabotages our education system, and does everything in their power to circumvent the Constitution, all in service of political ambition, not religion and certainly not science.
      If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama



    8. #133
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      I keep an open mind to everything and take everything with a grain of salt. Remember there's 2 sides to every argument/discussion.

    9. #134
      Xei
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      And invariably at least one will be wrong.

    10. #135
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      For who?
      really

    11. #136
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      NSFC (not safe for christians)

      I feel like it's a waste of time to have any kind of debate with a theist.

      And there's something I wanted to ask the rational people here:

      Does anybody else get really irritated when someone says they "don't believe in evolution"?

      You don't not believe in evolution, you deny it, for fuck's sake. That and climate change are such great examples of how people will ignore overwhelming evidence because they think it might threaten their faith and even replace it. Agencies in charge of so called environmental and industrial regulation are including more and more fundamentalists who believe there is no risk of climate change because god wouldn't allow it and man has dominion over nature anyways. I have absolutely no respect left for 'people of faith' who think they have a monopoly on morality, because they're so good at showing how immoral they really are outside of their own spheres of cognitive dissonance.
      Last edited by cygnus; 12-13-2010 at 03:34 AM.
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    12. #137
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      I wouldn't call them "stupid". More so ignorant or stubborn, or ultimately, scared. Fear.

      In a theology lecture-class I came to the realization that asking "reasons" for faith-based beliefs is, by definition, pointless. Faith-based beliefs don't have reasons. They're founded on faith. This type of thought is absence of evidence, based only in the belief/desire/trust/whatever you want to call it, of an idea. Simply, trust in what can't be proven.

      Of course, when looking from a western theology standpoint, most people don't claim "faith" as their only reason for worship. Their basis is typically their respective holy literature. That's where the problems arise. Abrahamaic text; holy literature of western theology; is riddled with inaccuracies, inconsistency, fallacies and outright untruths. Using these texts as "reasons" just does not work. I don't need to go into specifics.

      When asking 'why do you believe' to someone who uses only faith as their backing for worship, the question becomes pointless. You can't apply logic to a position that isn't founded on logic.

      However, beliefs founded solely on faith are found far more commonly in unique instances of personal spirituality, and eastern schools of thought; like the more abstract forms of buddhism. Western ideology on religion and reasoning there-for, in general, are based far more in various devices; text; 'miracles'; or holy artifacts, than absolutely and only in faith.

      My point is, you can't ask this question to someone who has no evidence for their beliefs, but founds it only in faith. Trying to make 'sense', that very word itself being useless, will only leave you exasperated and frustrated.

      Christian thought is not based in faith. It can be picked apart and proven false in many, many instances. Many Christians don't even believe. They may claim to, but their "beliefs" are far more the result of the comfort in consistency, the fear of loneliness or, simply fear itself. Many of these self-described Christians are aware of this. They are not stupid, but they each have their own various devices and reasons that make them bubble in "Christian" on their tax forms every year. You must understand the nature of this to even start on the "why" game.

    13. #138
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      Grod, the links I posted a bit earlier elaborate on what you just said
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    14. #139
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      Quote Originally Posted by cygnus View Post
      NSFC (not safe for christians)

      I feel like it's a waste of time to have any kind of debate with a theist.

      And there's something I wanted to ask the rational people here:

      Does anybody else get really irritated when someone says they "don't believe in evolution"?

      You don't not believe in evolution, you deny it, for fuck's sake. That and climate change are such great examples of how people will ignore overwhelming evidence because they think it might threaten their faith and even replace it. Agencies in charge of so called environmental and industrial regulation are including more and more fundamentalists who believe there is no risk of climate change because god wouldn't allow it and man has dominion over nature anyways. I have absolutely no respect left for 'people of faith' who think they have a monopoly on morality, because they're so good at showing how immoral they really are outside of their own spheres of cognitive dissonance.
      Do you believe God exist?
      I stomp on your ideas.

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      Quote Originally Posted by malac View Post
      Do you believe God exist?
      Wow, this is like a bad, predictable movie. Here, let me spoil it for you:

      cygnus: No, of course not!
      malac: Aha! You don't not beleve in god, you deny god! Hah! Hah! I veen!

      Is that pretty close?
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      I don't understand why those of us that do believe in some form of god are the ones who are looked down upon or whispered about under the breath of a never wrong always ready atheist. It makes absolutely no sense to me why your community insist on dragging us god fearing folks into your pristine world of miserable perfection every single chance you get. It's almost as if you are trying to gauge something of your own against the insanity of our absolute belief in a higher authority. But for the life of me I just couldn't imagine what it could possibly be.
      Spoiler for Silly nonbelievers:
      Last edited by greenhavoc; 12-13-2010 at 02:42 PM.

    17. #142
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      Sorry, what was that? I think your argument got lost in this man's voice of reason.
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    18. #143
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      Oh man, Mario posted a Freedomain Radio video. I'll turn you all into market anarchists just yet!

      Anyway...

      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      I don't understand why those of us that do believe in some form of god are the ones who are looked down upon or whispered about under the breath of a never wrong always ready atheist.
      Because it's 2010. These sort of irrational, Iron Age beliefs in imaginary friends should be a thing of the past.

      It's not so much that atheists are never wrong (because they certainly can be), but that either religious folk are blatantly wrong, or are far too loud with their beliefs in comparison to the evidence they have to prove their beliefs.

      It makes absolutely no sense to me why your community insist on dragging us god fearing folks into your pristine world of miserable perfection every single chance you get.
      What is this miserable perfection of which you speak?

      See, this is where we live; both you and I:



      The difference is that atheists tend to realize where we live. Religion is sort of akin to fervent narcissism, which states we live here:



      But really, we live here:



      jIt's almost as if you are trying to gauge something of your own against the insanity of our absolute belief in a higher authority. But for the life of me I just couldn't imagine what it could possibly be.
      Spoiler for Silly nonbelievers:
      You have the heart to express your offense at our words. I think you have to heart to say why the existence of an atheist is fallacious, so go for it. We're all listening.
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    19. #144
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      Quote Originally Posted by greenhavoc View Post
      I don't understand why those of us that do believe in some form of god are the ones who are looked down upon or whispered about under the breath of a never wrong always ready atheist. It makes absolutely no sense to me why your community insist on dragging us god fearing folks into your pristine world of miserable perfection every single chance you get. It's almost as if you are trying to gauge something of your own against the insanity of our absolute belief in a higher authority. But for the life of me I just couldn't imagine what it could possibly be.
      Spoiler for Silly nonbelievers:
      I'm tired of people having to repeat, so here:




    20. #145
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      Quote Originally Posted by Replicon View Post
      Wow, this is like a bad, predictable movie. Here, let me spoil it for you:

      cygnus: No, of course not!
      malac: Aha! You don't not beleve in god, you deny god! Hah! Hah! I veen!

      Is that pretty close?
      You ruined my master trap!
      I stomp on your ideas.

    21. #146
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      Quote Originally Posted by BLUELINE976 View Post
      Oh man, Mario posted a Freedomain Radio video. I'll turn you all into market anarchists just yet!
      Hhhnnngggggg


    22. #147
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      I'm not an atheist, and I know that we really live here:

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    23. #148
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      Quote Originally Posted by BLUELINE976 View Post
      You have the heart to express your offense at our words. I think you have to heart to say why the existence of an atheist is fallacious, so go for it. We're all listening.
      Because you no more have the answer than I do, yet you're quick to tell me I'm wrong where as I would never say that to another person because they may be right. I've said it many times, but not one of you can tell me where it all came from. Sure most of you can look at life in general and connect the dots, even I do this, but evolution and the atheist point of view can not answer even the most basic of questions.

      Jesus and religion have nothing to do with god, so stop using that to back up your arguments when I suggest something greater than your genius exist.

    24. #149
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      But what if we also live here:
      Indeed likes this.
      If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama



    25. #150
      Xei
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      I'm not an atheist, and I know that we really live here:
      You think we live in the microstructure of the detritus of Barney's suit?

      Crazy theist.

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