Thread: Alcoholics Anonymous / Narcotics Anonymous

Used to go to it. Not really for me anymore. met some lifelong friends there.

The best advice in the 'Big Book' are the first three words on page 112.

...which are?

Page 112 is in the chapter, 'To Wives'

You can view the official pdf chapter of this book online here

Originally Posted by mcwillis

The best advice in the 'Big Book' are the first three words on page 112.

"read this book" ?

Originally Posted by Man of Shred

Used to go to it. Not really for me anymore. met some lifelong friends there.

are you still sober persay? I dont think I would be able too without it at this point

&& yes, read this book!!! i think its pretty important that people pick up on that point.... my house manager at a sober living place i was at told me too look that up too. I wonder how it would be to go to a meeting in a dream...? wat wuld the DCs say i wonder

well i don't think I was ever a "real" alcoholic as described in the book. I was just a confused kid at the time. Nowadays I may have a beer or two and then leave it alone... for one i hate getting drunk and having hangovers.. plus it kills my dream recall.

I still remember an old joke. A newcommer woman was told by her sponsor, "to read the page on sex read page 96". but insstead the newcommer was confused and started reading 69... now start reading the first paragraph of 69.

Calling AA an spiritual program is the fastest way to put people off of it.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Calling AA an spiritual program is the fastest way to put people off of it.

Have you ever read what the 12 step program is...

No, I'm not an alcoholic, so I never have. I'm smart enough to enjoy alcohol in moderation.

But not smart enough to not speak about something you've never looked into.

Originally Posted by Xei

But not smart enough to not speak about something you've never looked into.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I figured it wasn't spiritual because I know that judges can and have ordered people to attend meetings. Now I see that that is clearly unconstitutional.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Calling AA an spiritual program is the fastest way to put people off of it.

Extract from page 26 & 27:

"A certain American business man had ability, good sense, and high character. For years he had floundered from one sanitarium to another. He had consulted the best known American psychiatrists. Then he had gone to Europe, placing himself in the care of a celebrated physician (the psychiatrist, Dr. Jung) who prescribed for him. Though experience had made him skeptical, he finished his treatment with unusual confidence. His physical and mental condition were unusually good. Above all, he believed he had acquired such a profound knowledge of the inner workings of his mind and its hidden springs that relapse was unthinkable. Nevertheless, he was drunk in a short time. More baffling still, he could give himself no satisfactory explanation for his fall.

So he returned to this doctor, whom he admired, and asked him point-blank why he could not recover. He wished above all things to regain self-control. He seemed quite rational and well-balanced with respect to other problems. Yet he had no control whatever over alcohol. Why was this?

He begged the doctor to tell him the whole truth, and he got it. In the doctor's judgment he was utterly hopeless; he could never regain his position in society and he would have to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard if he expected to live long. That was a great physician's opinion.

But this man still lives, and is a free man. He does not need a bodyguard nor is he confined. He can go anywhere on this earth where other free men may go without disaster, provided he remains willing to maintain a certain simple attitude.

Some of our alcoholic readers may think they can do without spiritual help. Let us tell you the rest of the conversation our friend had with his doctor.

The doctor said: "You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you." Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang.

He said to the doctor, "Is there no exception?"

"Yes," replied the doctor, "there is. Exceptions to cases such as yours have been occurring since early times. Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these occurrences are phenomena. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them. In fact, I have been trying to produce some such emotional rearrangement within you. With many individuals the methods which I employed are successful, but I have never been successful with an alcoholic of your description."

Upon hearing this, our friend was somewhat relieved, for he reflected that, after all, he was a good church member. This hope, however, was destroyed by the doctor's telling him that while his religious convictions were very good, in his case they did not spell the necessary vital spiritual experience."

What's the date from that story? I see that AA is very old, and psychiatry is a relatively new science and has made hug leaps forwards 1935. There is very little that has remained the same since then actually.

I'm not doubting that it works, the power of superstition is very profound on those who believe it. It's more about the fact that it's a support group that makes it successful though, because they help each other. I also have no doubt that a similar support group run by highly trained psychiatrists would be equally (probably far more) effective.

There is a correlation between how religious someone is and how well educated they are, and you see the same correlation alcoholism and education. So there is a high probability that an alcoholic will also be religious, which is why AA works so well.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I also have no doubt that a similar support group run by highly trained psychiatrists would be equally (probably far more) effective.

I have met at least a hundred people that have spent time in the best treatment facilities in the UK and every single one of them relapsed or knew that it would be inevitable that they would drink again. Modern psychotherapy is useless concerning the recovery of a hopeless alcoholic. The only solution these people found was working throught the 12 Step Program of Recovery of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

So there is a high probability that an alcoholic will also be religious, which is why AA works so well.

Actually the majority of members of 12 Step fellowships from my experience are either agnostics or atheists.

I am now speaking as a recovered alcoholic. Alcoholism is as fatal as cancer or heart disease. It not only destroys the life of the alcoholic but also the lives of those close to the alcoholic. This is not a medical forum or a forum related to 12 Step Recovery. On reflection I believe this thread should be locked in case mis-information is transmitted to any still suffering alcoholics that may be visiting this forum. That's just my humble opinion.

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Actually the majority of members of 12 Step fellowships from my experience are either agnostics or atheists.

Step 2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Step 11: Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

Why would that have any affect on one who believes that god is a creation of man?



The relapse rates of AA might be higher than you think. About 69 percent in less than a year and 93% in less than 5 years according to a 1965 article in the Quarterly Journal of Studies on Alcohol. I'm trying to find more recent numbers. As I'm sure that's gone down considerably.

The relapse rate for all addiction programs is ridiculously high (ever see Intervention?), the best drug abuse treatment is preventative.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I figured it wasn't spiritual because I know that judges can and have ordered people to attend meetings. Now I see that that is clearly unconstitutional.

Now that, I didn't know. Ha, wow.

If anyone here reading this thread is a suffering alcoholic or drug addict I strongly urge you to ignore this thread and to visit these Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous Conference Approved website links below:

Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Or you could just read this thread with an open mind and check out the facts for yourselves.

I don't claim to know much about this, but there is no call for this thread to be locked. Nobody is posting anything harmful, and I don't think the OP would appreciate being locked out of his own thread without being able to answer questions.

I never understood the religious aspect of AA. It was the one thing that prevented someone very close to me from going to the meetings. I always figured that maybe it was the act of submitting to the power of the disease that humbled a person and allowed them to enter into treatment with the proper mindset, but the overt references to the Christian God completely ruins that for non-Christians. This person still erroneously believes they can quit drinking whenever they want to.