Thread: Why Christians are not just a load of backwards imbeciles.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

I believe that everything in the Bible is true, but I am open to varying interpretations of the text.

Well here is our first problem.

"True" in what sense?

As in, as a historical reference, as a way to live one's life and find salvation, and as accurate prophecy.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

As in, as a historical reference, as a way to live one's life and find salvation, and as accurate prophecy.

So if you accept everything in the Bible as true, you would have to see the creation stories as true, correct?

"Day" does not have to be literal. Also, it may or may not be an allegory. I am not closed to discussion.

P.S. - I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!

Originally Posted by Rickrold

"Day" does not have to be literal. Also, it may or may not be an allegory. I am not closed to discussion.

P.S. - I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!

I didn't mention anything about days as of yet.

In order to rid ourselves of confusion, why don't you tell me exactly what parts of the creation stories you see as true?

All of them.

Now I know you're going to say that I'm contradicting myself. An allegory can still be defined as expressing a total and definite truth.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

All of them.

Now I know you're going to say that I'm contradicting myself. An allegory can still be defined as expressing a total and definite truth.

Good prediction. How can you see evolution as a possibility if you believe everything in the creation stories, which state God created man and animals, are true?

Did you read my last post or not?

Women must marry their rapists. Slavery is fine. Kill disobedient children.

How do you 'interpret' these little gems?

Nice Douglas quote though.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

Did you read my last post or not?

"An allegory can still be defined as expressing a total and definite truth."

An allegory is a sort of symbolic narrative. If the creation stories are allegories, yet are still total and definitely true...what's the point of calling it an allegory? Why not just call it the truth?

Originally Posted by Xei

Women must marry their rapists. Slavery is fine. Kill disobedient children.

How do you 'interpret' these little gems?

Nice Douglas quote though.

Those are all a part of the 'Old Covenant' that was in effect before the death of Christ. That covenant is no longer in effect.

And thanks.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

"An allegory can still be defined as expressing a total and definite truth."

An allegory is a sort of symbolic narrative. If the creation stories are allegories, yet are still total and definitely true...what's the point of calling it an allegory? Why not just call it the truth?

It's the truth represented in a non-literal form.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

It's the truth represented in a non-literal form.

God created the heavens, earth, animals, and man, but not literally?

A little clarity would help.

God created all of those things, but not necessarily in the "BAM - there it was" way that it seems in imply when read in a literal manner. Cosmic, animal, and possibly even human evolution may have been used by God to bring about his creation.

Certain passages in Genesis are written in a manner that expresses non-literal truth as if it were literal. This was once common among ancient Eastern writers but is unseen today.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

God created all of those things, but not necessarily in the "BAM - there it was" way that it seems in imply when read in a literal manner. Cosmic, animal, and possibly even human evolution may have been used by God to bring about his creation.

Certain passages in Genesis are written in a manner that expresses non-literal truth as if it were literal. This was once common among ancient Eastern writers but is unseen today.

Okay. So what evidence do you have that shows 1) God exists, and 2) God had a role in creating man and animals (in this case using natural processes)?

Originally Posted by Rickrold

Those are all a part of the 'Old Covenant' that was in effect before the death of Christ. That covenant is no longer in effect.

Says who?

what is your interpretation of 2 Kings 2:23-24? Deuteronomy 28:56-57? why did God spare Isaac but not Jepthah's daughter? why do Christians still use the first set of the Ten Commandments, when after Moses broke them God issued a different set which includes "Thou shalt not seethe a [goat] in its mother's milk"? did you know that parts of Psalms were written before Genesis, and reference a creation myth in which God defeats a monster named Rahab (Psalms 89:10)? what's up with that? and, if God is so knowing and powerful, why is there so much disagreement over various interpretations and translations of his so-called inerrant word?

Originally Posted by Rickrold

Certain passages in Genesis are written in a manner that expresses non-literal truth as if it were literal.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, back up a second. If Genesis is written in a manner that is non-literal... is it possible that they exaggerated God as being a God?

1)
You cannot prove that God exists per se, but what I can say is this. How did the universe begin? The Big Bang was obviously caused by something. Even with multiverse theory, something had to start everything at some point.
2)
There is no model for the universe that requires a personal God, but there is also no model that precludes one. The Bible has proven to be completely accurate so far according to outside accounts and sources. Multiple people described themselves seeing Jesus alive after he had most definitely died. I know those last two don't address your question directly, but if they are true the rest follows.

And no, Jesus was NOT and alien.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Says who?

Says Jesus.

See the biblical references here:
Jesus and the Old Covenant Laws | Grace Communion International

Originally Posted by Rickrold

1)
You cannot prove that God exists per se, but what I can say is this. How did the universe begin? The Big Bang was obviously caused by something. Even with multiverse theory, something had to start everything at some point.
2)
There is no model for the universe that requires a personal God, but there is also no model that precludes one. The Bible has proven to be completely accurate so far according to outside accounts and sources. Multiple people described themselves seeing Jesus alive after he had most definitely died. I know those last two don't address your question directly, but if they are true the rest follows.

And no, Jesus was NOT and alien.

1) So... where did God come from? Everything had to start at some point.
2) Nobody disputes that Jesus was a real person. They dispute if he was the Son of God.
3) Well... if he is the Son of God, then he sorta is. God is extraterrestrial since he doesn't reside on this Earth, so yeah... he is a half-alien.

Also, something for you to consider. Have you heard of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas? Jesus kills a boy in it and cripples another. This was before he realized his powers, and he later used them for good, but the damage was done. What do you have to say about it?

Originally Posted by nerve

did you know that parts of Psalms were written before Genesis...and, if God is so knowing and powerful, why is there so much disagreement over various interpretations and translations of his so-called inerrant word?

1)Proof?
2)Among other things, through translations away from the original texts imperfections can be created by humans in the translated text.

God has always existed. He is incorporeal and outside of science.

What proof do you have that this 'gospel' is true?

Originally Posted by Rickrold

1)
You cannot prove that God exists per se, but what I can say is this. How did the universe begin? The Big Bang was obviously caused by something. Even with multiverse theory, something had to start everything at some point.

No one knows what caused the Big Bang at the moment. There are scientific hypotheses floating around, some with more tangible evidence than others, but nothing that could be considered a fact just yet. So far, your response doesn't answer my question. Ignorance of the origins of the universe before the Big Bang does not mean God exists.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

2)
There is no model for the universe that requires a personal God, but there is also no model that precludes one.

This is not an answer. A model that does not preclude a creator is not evidence for a creator.

The Bible has proven to be completely accurate so far according to outside accounts and sources.

Source?

Multiple people described themselves seeing Jesus alive after he had most definitely died. I know those last two don't address your question directly, but if they are true the rest follows.

People are susceptible to delusion and hallucination. Personal conjecture or say-so is not credible evidence.

And no, Jesus was NOT and alien.

No one mentioned Jesus or aliens.

So far you have failed to answer my question.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

Says Jesus.

Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Originally Posted by Rickrold

The Bible has proven to be completely accurate so far according to outside accounts and sources.

Let me guess, when the bible is right, it's completely accurate, but when the bible is wrong, it's not meant to be taken literally?

Originally Posted by Rickrold

God has always existed. He is incorporeal and outside of science.

What proof do you have that this 'gospel' is true?

1) Self-contradiction there, Rickrold. And where does it say he has always existed? You said so yourself, everything has to start somewhere. If you can't provide proof the the Bible says directly, "God has always existed," then you need to realize then we may be stretching beyond the history that Christians want to believe. Ground rule for me: You cannot imagine, conceive, or know the absolute beginning of everything. Period.

2) It was probably eliminated from the 4th century meeting when they cut out hundreds of books out of the original Bible. Look it up.

EDIT: Here's the best I could find: click here to see what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Rickrold

God has always existed. He is incorporeal and outside of science.

If God cannot be detected through the means of science, that means he can't, in any way at all, influence any events in our universe. Or to be more accurate, he doesn't exist.