Please Explain How This Can Be Related To Christianity

**Snowboy** · 02-17-2011 05:25 PM

OK, I want you to tell me how this could possibly be related to Christianity. Somebody posted a dream that they said could be related to 2012 and what may happen:

I’m on a bus that seems to be leaving a village I know. At the last crossroad near the exit of the town, I see a man in a wheelchair who seems to have fainted. I am in shock and I look around to see if someone comes to help him but nobody comes. I go to the front of the bus to ask the driver to stop, but he also collapses at that moment. I just have time to grab the wheel and push the breaks. Zilla is also on the bus. We go outside and we see another person who just fell off a bike. We take her bike and ride it. Just a bit further ahead, from the opposite direction, comes a truck in zigzags and runs over a pedestrian who was on the sidewalk. Still in shock and confused, we pass beneath a tunnel and emerge in a city where we see heaps of people lying on the ground or just hanging around disoriented. We don’t know what is happening, but we fear being hit by the same “disease”. We enter a building and we meet other friends on a loft to discuss what might be happening when we feel something in the air and a great commotion on the street again. I go to the balcony, the sky is golden and warm and I am fully hit by a kind of energy wave that makes the air vibrate. I feel a heavy weight and a pressure in my head and I stagger, stunned. A powerful and deep voice seems to come from the sky directly to my head. I can’t recall word by word, but the voice delivered a message which was more or less like: "The time is coming. Within a year the world will enter into the darkness. Only those who remain as strong as a rock will not be taken."

"The time is coming. Within a year the world will enter into the darkness. Only those who remain as strong as a rock will not be taken."

Now, I can't be the only one to assume that "taken" means "death" or "killed". And people that are as strong as a rock are those that are truly optimistic, those that can see the light in the darkness, and those that are strong-willed.

I honestly think this may be a real "prophecy" (for lack of a better word) dream, so I started off a conversation about it.

Now following this is under the assumption that this is true.

Now, somebody thought this was related to Christianity and posted the following verses that were apparently related to that dream:

Matthew 7:24-27:
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.
Matthew 16:18:
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

OK, I could see how somebody could immediately assume that this was related to the dream, but when you look at the context, it doesn't match up at all with the dream. My reasoning:

1) It doesn't relate to the end times or 2012. It's just saying that you will be strong in life and that you will be like the person that uses a strong support for his living space.

2) I am guessing that this is Jesus speaking to Peter, and it is about the building and sustainment of the church, so it is irrelevant to what is being spoken of.

3) It is from a religious book that has no proof for its being true.

And from a post I made:

Originally Posted by Snowboy

Again, there is no similarity whatsoever to what was said. Building and maintaining the church has nothing to do with mass amounts of people dying, living a Christan life doesn't relate to what was said, and the Bible doesn't speak of anything that is being described in this topic. Shared dreaming is not in the Bible, massive future death is rarely mentioned in the Bible, and it says that only the believers will survive Apocalypse. As far as I'm concerned, we haven't reached that point in time, we won't reach anything like it for a while, and it is probably a whole separate scenario as far as I'm concerned.

* said that only the ones that are as strong as a rock will not be taken. It says nothing about believers being taken or not taken, it says nothing about Apocalypse and it's stages, and it doesn't meet the requirements for it! We have to experience a long while of catastrophe before Apocalypse happens, and as far as I'm concerned, it says it will happen in one year! And this is assuming that "being taken" means the Rapture! Why would so many people die if it was the Rapture?! Why are only those as hard as a rock survive instead of the believers?!

As far as I'm concerned, most Christians aren't as hard as a rock. Most Christians became so because of hardship in their lives, and they had to turn towards something for false confidence! Most still aren't optimistic, they still aren't happy, and they still aren't strong-willed! I see a problem with this. "Strong as a rock" means being able to withstand hardship, it means seeing light in the darkness, and it means having the willpower to do so! How can you do that when you don't have the qualities that are needed?

And somebody else's argument:

Originally Posted by *

Cool, I think those were the verses my mom referred to. Unlike Snowboy who says this has nothing to do, I think it does. I think that if my dream had anything to do at all with anything, it is precisely with this need to have a strong foundation to overcome hardship, or in a Buddhist perspective, to have a strong mind not attached to the world of appearances to not get lost in suffering.
The roman catholic church altered the meaning of this verses to make it sound like Jesus decided that Peter should be the foundation of his church, when in the original version Jesus never advocated for the creation of a church (he was against it) and instead said that our own foundations (trust in god or in our divine nature) should be as solid as a rock or hell will be upon us (we'll dwell in suffering) - just like the message in my dream. So, yes, it is absolutely related.
Snowboy, you're being too fundamentalist, because nowhere in my dream it was said loads of people will die, that's your own interpretation.

Originally Posted by Snowboy

You have to look at the context; you can't just take a random rock metaphor and assume it refers to something completely unrelated.

Putting the Bible's word into practice has nothing to do with being like a rock. Peter setting up the Church and sustaining it has nothing to do with being a rock. It said that you have to be as strong as a rock to not be taken. It didn't say anything about you holding up the Church to not be taken; it says nothing about you becoming a strong, devoted Christian to not be taken; it says that you as an individual have to be as strong as rock rock; absolutely no references to Christianity or those verses in the simple statement: "You have to be as strong as a rock to not be taken."

Also, I just saw the last part of *'s post, but if you think it may not be right, give me a better explanation for "being taken".

Now, DV, this is where you come in. I want you to explain why those verses may relate to that dream (under the assumption that it is true), or back up my argument. I want to see what the general public thinks of this.

**ThePreserver** · 02-17-2011 11:23 PM

The person who HAD the dream even mentioned that it relates to Christianity in the original thread. You are the one asserting that it doesn't and that the dream may have meant that people will die on a massive scale. I don't know, but the person who had the dream is usually better at interpreting what it meant than someone else who didn't experience it.

The discussion of stone and rock as something that is solid and stable is in more than one religious text and can be applied in more than one place. The Bible may not have been proven true, but how have your opinions been proven true on the topic of what her dreams mean? They haven't.

**MadMonkey** · 02-18-2011 12:32 AM

The verse is a parable about if you have god as your foundation you will not perish. It is not talking about dieng as much as going to heaven rather than going to hell. When the second coming of Christ happens it will be the end of the world and those who have trusted in God will go to heaven. It has nothing to do with weather they will die or have a comfurtable life. Those who turn to God have God as their foundation/rock.

The verse is pretty well known and the similaritys to what was said in the dream are pretty obvious. I don't see why you feel the need to try and deny them.

**Snowboy** · 02-18-2011 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

The verse is a parable about if you have god as your foundation you will not perish. It is not talking about dieng as much as going to heaven rather than going to hell.

OK, where in the lines of the dream are Heaven and Hell mentioned?

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

Those who turn to God have God as their foundation/rock.

Originally Posted by Snowboy

As far as I'm concerned, most Christians aren't as hard as a rock. Most Christians became so because of hardship in their lives, and they had to turn towards something for false confidence! Most still aren't optimistic, they still aren't happy, and they still aren't strong-willed! I see a problem with this. "Strong as a rock" means being able to withstand hardship, it means seeing light in the darkness, and it means having the willpower to do so! How can you do that when you don't have the qualities that are needed?

The person that originally posted the verses agreed with me on this point. They turn to God, yet they don't possess the qualities of being like a rock. How can they have their foundation of a rock (or, in other words, being a rock at heart), and not possess the qualities of it? Would you care to tell me how this is possible?

It's like saying believing in God will give you confidence in overcoming things. How often do you see this happening? Most of today's Christians are going through tough hardships and taking it pretty bad. A lot of Christians are insecure and sad. How is this like a rock, being able to withstand hardships, stay truly optimistic, and see the light in the darkness?

**MadMonkey** · 02-18-2011 01:21 AM

The point is no one but God offers the stability of a firm foundation. Even if the strongest most indistructible tower would fall if you built it on sand. The person was saying that the dream and the verse are very similar and may be related, not that they are exactly the same. I don't see what the big deal is.

**Snowboy** · 02-18-2011 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

Even if the strongest most indistructible tower would fall if you built it on sand. The person was saying that the dream and the verse are very similar and may be related, not that they are exactly the same. I don't see what the big deal is.

How could the tower fall if it's indestructible? The person that posted the verses was actually different from the person that posted the dream.

Also, it's not a big deal. The conversation was getting too long in the original thread, so I went ahead and made a separate thread to keep the original thread on-topic. Plus, this can get a bit interesting if the right people respond...

**Tenrai** · 02-18-2011 02:46 AM

My view is that there is only one religion which has been expressed in many different forms, in different places and different times. So Christianity for me is just one aspect of this, I'm not saying that only Christians will be "saved".

Originally Posted by Snowboy

The person that originally posted the verses agreed with me on this point. They turn to God, yet they don't possess the qualities of being like a rock. How can they have their foundation of a rock (or, in other words, being a rock at heart), and not possess the qualities of it? Would you care to tell me how this is possible?

It's like saying believing in God will give you confidence in overcoming things. How often do you see this happening? Most of today's Christians are going through tough hardships and taking it pretty bad. A lot of Christians are insecure and sad. How is this like a rock, being able to withstand hardships, stay truly optimistic, and see the light in the darkness?

Only the belief in God that is based on experience and profound self-knowledge can make you strong as a rock. Then it is not about believing in God, but experiencing him within, in each moment. This is something quite rare.

Originally Posted by Snowboy

You have to look at the context; you can't just take a random rock metaphor and assume it refers to something completely unrelated.

Putting the Bible's word into practice has nothing to do with being like a rock. Peter setting up the Church and sustaining it has nothing to do with being a rock. It said that you have to be as strong as a rock to not be taken. It didn't say anything about you holding up the Church to not be taken; it says nothing about you becoming a strong, devoted Christian to not be taken; it says that you as an individual have to be as strong as rock rock; absolutely no references to Christianity or those verses in the simple statement: "You have to be as strong as a rock to not be taken."

No offence, but:
"The intellectual loses the sense of a sentence only for the lack of a period or comma. The intuitive one knows how to read where the Master did not write, and to listen when the Master is not speaking."
"The language of the consciousness is symbolic, intimate, and profoundly significant. Only those who are awakened can understand."
Of course, this is not to say that I'm awakened.

**Snowboy** · 02-18-2011 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tenrai

My view is that there is only one religion which has been expressed in many different forms, in different places and different times. So Christianity for me is just one aspect of this, I'm not saying that only Christians will be "saved".

Only the belief in God that is based on experience and profound self-knowledge can make you strong as a rock. Then it is not about believing in God, but experiencing him within, in each moment. This is something quite rare.

1) Oh. Interesting point of view. I have never heard a Christian say that not only Christians will be saved.

2) Apparently. I don't even know if there are people like this anymore.

**Tenrai** · 02-18-2011 06:52 PM

I never said that I was a Christian and I don't like so much to categorize myself. Labelling is limiting.

**Snowboy** · 02-18-2011 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Tenrai

I never said that I was a Christian and I don't like so much to categorize myself. Labelling is limiting.

Then why did you...

**Tenrai** · 02-19-2011 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Snowboy

Then why did you...

Did what? I just provided some quotes from the Bible that I thought were interesting in relation to the dream.

**Snowboy** · 02-26-2011 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Tenrai

Did what? I just provided some quotes from the Bible that I thought were interesting in relation to the dream.

I didn't realize you just thought that it was interesting... I thought you meant it directly related to those verses!

**Tenrai** · 02-26-2011 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Snowboy

I didn't realize you just thought that it was interesting... I thought you meant it directly related to those verses!

Maybe, maybe not.
Thoughts are not important, facts are.

**NonDualistic** · 02-26-2011 03:56 PM

Darkness is also ignorance

Being taken is also being caught up in

Air is a metaphor for Spirit...

The Sky, ones own awareness

The spiritually blind only apply meaning to what they can see..

The physical world

Physical death

Physical religion

The same light that is the source of one religion...

Is indeed the source of all religion..

People look for the return of a physical "Jesus"

Yet the "Christ" is within all living things

The spiritually blind wait for that which will never be..

All the while ignoring that which is unfolding before them, within them, even now

Looking outward...

They do not know of what is taking place within

Seeing

They have not seen...

Hearing

They have not heard...

Eagerly.... they accept "appearance" over reality