I was wondering..

**nitsuJ** · 03-07-2011 03:43 AM

Little background here.. when I first came to this forum I considered myself Christian although I really didn't know much about Christianity (really I was more of a Deist) for the simple fact I didn't read much from the Bible and I never went to Church a day in my life. I never thought prayer worked and I didn't believe in miracles. I was always skeptical of the existence of any deity out there even though I argued for it quite a few times on these threads. I was always borderline agnostic atheist, but I went full blown atheist around.. a year ago? Maybe a year and a half or two.

Anyways, I've been having relationship problems lately and it's gotten worse tonight. I was thinking to myself during this time that if most people (religious people) believe things happen because "God", or whatever they worship, wants them to happen that way then why do they worship them?

I don't see how people can sit there and worship something that'd be so heartless. Think about it.. most religious people believe in prayer, they pray for a loved one to get better.. the loved one dies. If God, or whomever, really does answer prayers, why didn't he answer that? If he does exist, he's heartless. I even felt that way when I did actually believe in a higher being. I felt it was heartless and inconsiderate.

During these thoughts too, I came to the realization that if there was an actual higher being, at the end of my time I feel like I would most likely lash out and attack. I feel like if I were to die and found out there was life after death, I would go on an all out attack to destroy everything, or at least try, just because of the selfish, heartless, inconsiderate prick would deserve it. I would be set on destroying anything in my path too, be it Heaven and/or Hell. I would want it all gone.

After everything that has happened in mankind's past, everything that's happened in the present, and I'm sure a lot of our future, I believe I'd rather stay in a limbo than to go to either side after death if it was real.

I don't know if this post made a lot of sense, because I've got a ton of emotions going through me right now, but whoever does make sense out of it, anyone agree with this? Or feel a similar feeling?

03-07-2011 09:29 AM

Are you saying god should make us all immortal to counter anyone dying? That's not happening son.

**Invader** · 03-07-2011 09:56 AM

Considering our messy history, do you think that having a God that answered our prayers would make things better or worse?

**Spartiate** · 03-07-2011 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Invader

Considering our messy history, do you think that having a God that answered our prayers would make things better or worse?

Couldn't he answer the virtuous, well-meaning ones and ignore the malevolent ones? If he's god, surely he can judge properly.

**Invader** · 03-07-2011 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Couldn't he _____________________________________? If he's god, surely he _________________________.

Yes.

∴ Millennia of frustration for humanity.

**Photolysis** · 03-07-2011 12:40 PM

I don't see how people can sit there and worship something that'd be so heartless. Think about it.. most religious people believe in prayer, they pray for a loved one to get better.. the loved one dies. If God, or whomever, really does answer prayers, why didn't he answer that? If he does exist, he's heartless. I even felt that way when I did actually believe in a higher being. I felt it was heartless and inconsiderate.

It's just the rationalizations of the weak. Religion is a comfortable delusion and many don't have the ability to confront it. So they have to protect it with stuff like "everything happens for a reason". This doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny, but then what does when it comes to religion?

I always find the double standards of so many religious people interesting. Most people believe that standing by whilst someone dies or suffers is immoral, but if God does it, hey that's a cool thing to do. It's even more stupid when you consider that according to their beliefs God easily has the power to intervene and at no cost. It's not like a bystander risking their life to pull some unconscious person out of a burning car. It literally means nothing to someone with such power.

Clearly this is a problem for the more intelligent theists, so they have to invent more stupid rationalizations like "faith is important", "it's a test", "it would interfere with free will".

If there is a God, it's a pretty crappy one. I'll be putting forth my application when the position opens up.

**Xei** · 03-07-2011 07:51 PM

Also bear in mind that, if God created all life, he also created plenty of painful and horrible diseases.

Prayer is ridiculous anyway. If God gave you cancer, do you really think grovelling is going to change his mind? He'd be a pretty pathetic supreme being if he did.

**Raspberry** · 03-07-2011 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Are you saying god should make us all immortal to counter anyone dying? That's not happening son.

No, he's saying that if there is such a thing as a god he's a lazy, sadistic prick and would quite happily kick his ass.

**Philosopher8659** · 03-07-2011 08:03 PM

A wise man once said, that we testify to what we have seen and speak of what we have known.

Now, that is true religion--which is counter to those who "worship" the same. How one understands a thing is related directly to what they have experienced and their ability to encode those experiences into a linguistic format. Our limitations of being able to abstract and rationalize is not the fault of that which we percieve. i.e. we project our stupidity about things onto the things themselves.

Everyone does it. Everyone. Some more so than others, it depends on how close you keep this awareness close to you --the distinction between self and not self.

If you really desire greater understanding, and not simply another whipping boy, you study and learn what you are and how to be right in thought and deed.

It does not matter what someone else can or cannot achieve in the way of understanding until they harm you directly with their ignorance. Most are offended simply at words, when they don't even bother to study their true meaning or efficacy.

If you seek an understanding of this "god" -- the text tells you how to learn directly. You will not understand much of what you learn, but always remember, it is the learner who does not understand, not the teacher.

**nitsuJ** · 03-09-2011 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

Are you saying god should make us all immortal to counter anyone dying? That's not happening son.

No.

Originally Posted by Invader

Considering our messy history, do you think that having a God that answered our prayers would make things better or worse?

I think if one existed, they'd be worthless.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

It's just the rationalizations of the weak. Religion is a comfortable delusion and many don't have the ability to confront it. So they have to protect it with stuff like "everything happens for a reason". This doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny, but then what does when it comes to religion?

I always find the double standards of so many religious people interesting. Most people believe that standing by whilst someone dies or suffers is immoral, but if God does it, hey that's a cool thing to do. It's even more stupid when you consider that according to their beliefs God easily has the power to intervene and at no cost. It's not like a bystander risking their life to pull some unconscious person out of a burning car. It literally means nothing to someone with such power.

Clearly this is a problem for the more intelligent theists, so they have to invent more stupid rationalizations like "faith is important", "it's a test", "it would interfere with free will".

If there is a God, it's a pretty crappy one. I'll be putting forth my application when the position opens up.

You'll have my vote!

Originally Posted by Xei

Also bear in mind that, if God created all life, he also created plenty of painful and horrible diseases.

Prayer is ridiculous anyway. If God gave you cancer, do you really think grovelling is going to change his mind? He'd be a pretty pathetic supreme being if he did.

Sadly, a lot of people do believe that.

Like those parents that think prayer will help their sick children, then the kid dies. Good parenting skills right there.

What's it called? Faith healing, or something.

Originally Posted by Raspberry

No, he's saying that if there is such a thing as a god he's a lazy, sadistic prick and would quite happily kick his ass.

RIGHT ON!

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

A wise man once said, that we testify to what we have seen and speak of what we have known.

Now, that is true religion--which is counter to those who "worship" the same. How one understands a thing is related directly to what they have experienced and their ability to encode those experiences into a linguistic format. Our limitations of being able to abstract and rationalize is not the fault of that which we percieve. i.e. we project our stupidity about things onto the things themselves.

Everyone does it. Everyone. Some more so than others, it depends on how close you keep this awareness close to you --the distinction between self and not self.

If you really desire greater understanding, and not simply another whipping boy, you study and learn what you are and how to be right in thought and deed.

It does not matter what someone else can or cannot achieve in the way of understanding until they harm you directly with their ignorance. Most are offended simply at words, when they don't even bother to study their true meaning or efficacy.

If you seek an understanding of this "god" -- the text tells you how to learn directly. You will not understand much of what you learn, but always remember, it is the learner who does not understand, not the teacher.

The Bible teaches that God is a horrible being.

**Alric** · 03-11-2011 01:39 AM

If you want praying to be useful then use it as a form of meditation. Which is really what it is supposed to be. The act of sitting in quiet and pondering over an issue helps you think through problems. Like people say, you shouldn't be asking god to solve things(because he wont). Instead you should be asking to gain a new perspective on an issue, something that you can actually gain through prayer. The basic view of God is that he doesn't create solutions, he creates problems for you to over come.

**Raspberry** · 03-11-2011 07:34 PM

Yup, cause some solutions such as natural disasters and diseases gives you plenty of chances to sit and ask god for a new perspective, especially when something's incurable.

I'm not saying that meditation isn't useful, but c'mon. Some "problems he gives us to overcome" are pretty damn impossible to survive.

**Philosopher8659** · 03-11-2011 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

.The Bible teaches that God is a horrible being.

Actually, something like 'I create all the good and all the evil, I the Lord do all these things.' From Isaiah. Search the various translations of Isaiah 45:7. The current tendency is to translate this out of the text.

Which is correct, since, in scripture, "God" is defined as "Truth". All that is true, good and bad. Since the text is about judgment, man evolving to learn judgment, what is surprising about this?

The idea that God is an anthropomorphic being responsible for us, to think for us, protect us, do for us, is simply how a child comprehends the text.

A child will have the faith of a child. Nothing is surprising about that at all. When you understand what you are, and what you are responsible for, then one will find the traditional concept of God as repulsive--really a death worship.