When Schools That Aren't Religious... Be Religious

Ok, so I am currently in my 4th year at highschool, almost 5th (scottish education = 7 years in primary, 6 years in secondary) and my school is supposedly "non-religious." It's not like the school is supposed to be athiest or anything, just that religion is only every supposed to be brought up whilest studying it in R.M.P.S classes, and should certainly not expect their students to practice the religion in school (hyms, prayer etc)

So why the hell are the "non-religious" schools I've gone to (2 primary schools + 1 secondary) so religious?

So, the first primary I went to wasn't so bad. It was in Germany, and we only ever done like one prayer (Christian) after assemblies. 'Though I was 6 so I don't remember it too much.

However, the other school I went to, all the time we had to sing hyms, pray, we even had to go to church ceremonies every few weeks when we were supposed to be a non-religious school. We also got regular visits from priests . There was a church built just down the road from this school when I was in P4 so obviously the two struck up a deal.

My current school isn't so bad, but considering that there's a christian highschool literally just down the road from us, shouldn't they be focused on teaching during assemblies and not religion? If we wanted to be taught christianity (when the school talks of religion it's all pretty much christian) we could just go there, it's a public school.

We don't need to sing or pray, but most of the people they get in to talk to us are christian. When my yeargroup (there's around 200 people in each yeargroup) first came up we were given bibles. Most of them were found dirty and wet, with their pages torn out, scattered around outside.

Recently, someone from a spring/summer study camp came to visit my yeargroup since we have exams coming up soon. It actually looked pretty good, aside from studying there was absailing, volleyball, canoeing etc. I was thinking about it until at the end, he finally got around to mentioning that it's a christian camp, and they talk of god and bibles and do frickin' renactments of the bible. Ok.

So this really pissed me and a lot of my friends off, considering most of us are athiest and the school is not supposed to preach to us. Another factor was that all three of the schools i've been to, although supposedly non-religious (sorry I don't actually know the correct term), have only talked of christianity. I have friends who are Muslim, Wiccan and so forth and if the school is going to talk of religion, shouldn't it be of all religions?

So, what was/is your school like when it came/comes to religion, and do you think that this is acceptable?

I want your views!

Never had it that bad here. In primary school (10+ years ago) we had an optional religion class and this church lady would sometimes come and talk in class, I remember having one class outing to the local church. My secondary school abolished religion classes while I was there (although it was pretty funny, mostly just people asking about the apocalypse). Never any praying or stuff, certainly not outside of religion classes.

None of my schools have religion classes. That would be stupid. If I were in your school, I would be SO ******* PISSED OFF! Religion should NOT be thought in school. It's so ******* stupid!

But that's just my opinion.... lol

If they hand me the bible I'll burn it and say oops

EDIT:

The worst thing my school has done is... we were learning history (we talk about christianity but he doesn't give us ******* bibles). We were talking about examples of conflicts. So i said natural disaters. He said no, Gods work isn't an example of conflict. All my friends looked at me (they know i am athiest) and were trying to hold their laughter in so much! it was a funny time.....

At my highschool (which was secular) they always got the chaplain bro out to read some hymn or some shit

everyone in the hall bowed their head and it was all pretty sad.

I had lots of religion classes, but only cause I chose to take them.

We did not have religion in my school. We didn't even have optional religious classes which would have been nice. On the other hand, my daughter is attending a private Christian based school. they still teach all the "science stuff" but at the same time they do have religious classes which includes a "religions of the world" class that covers many different religions which she will take later on.

I got pretty irritated when I saw a bible in the general office - in secondary school of course. Also when someone running for some office in student gov quoted it in their speech, I wonder how people would react if I quoted the Koran. ha

Well, it seems that some schools aren't so bad. Here, the R.M.P.S (Religious, Moral and Philisophical Studies) is standard until 5th year, when you can drop it. So we get one period of it every week until the end of 4th year when we can drop it. In 1st and 2nd year, the class is about religion (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism) but they don't preach it to us and give us stuff. They just teach us what's in the religion and their beliefs. I have to say my favourite is Buddhism because it's about you and not some god. Although I'm not Buddhist.

In 3rd and 4th year it's mainly about gender issues and roles, animal testing, the difference between fact, faith and belief and so on.

But if a teacher turned around to me and said "No, god's work isn't an example of conflict." I probably (most likely) would've gotten incredibly pissed off and replied "Well considering the amount of people killed during natural disasters I would say that god is therefore an example of conflict." Or something along those lines. Probably would get detention but what the hell. Some teachers cross the line and need to know that just because they have authority doesn't mean they can do and say anything they like.

We had religion class, however its purpose was to teach us about religion, in a historic manner. I learned a lot about Islam in it, which I'm thankful for.

In 6th grade or so, we spent some time each week going to this place where we'd be prepared for this confirmation thing. Basically some Christian ritual around the age of 13 or 14. If people aren't into Christianity, they simply don't come, but it's still a shame that they use school time for such things. Of course, most went through with it, because it involved a lot of gifts being given to them and large sums of money. Now I sort of regret it and from what I've heard, a lot of people regret that they did it. Not that it matters, there's nothing binding about it. But still.

When I was at primary school there was a lot of indoctrination with Bible stories and singing hymns. When I reflect upon my time there, this was quite indoctrinating; the stories were presented as if they were historical facts rather than tales with a moral behind them.

This trend continued when I left my first secondary school moved to another one, though this was partly due to the old-fashioned nature of said school.

Religious studies classes were non-optional for the first few years at my secondary schools, and I opted to take the subject up to GCSE level. It really should have covered alternative philosophies as well, instead of only educating about the histories and beliefs of the various religions out there, but I still feel it was a valuable learning experience.

Wow! I live in the States. The most we did was the national anthem and most people consider that more patriotic than religious. Some teachers would speak of religion if it came out in conversation, but that's it.
I had to attend school with my daughters for a few weeks last year because of truancy problems. Religion was brought up a few times, but it was all initiated by the students.

I wouldn't be offended by seeing the Bible in an office. In that case, no one makes you read it. It's just there for those who are interested or to help kill time.
I identify with Christianity, but I WOULD be offended by being made to sing hymns and such. There are so many different denominations of Christianity. Just because you're one or another branch doesn't mean you agree with what's being taught by one or the other (Catholics don't agree with Baptists, for instance).

Maybe you're just in a bad location.
Then again, I grew up in the "Bible Belt" lol and I didn't have to deal with such things :D

Hm, maybe I am. But where I am isn't particulary religious. I live in what's considered to be a large town/small city and there's plenty of schools. I can't imagine that every school in this area is like mine. However, although my school's pretty old (54 years) it does have a very good reputation for learning.

It's not that I have a problem with people within the school being religious (even if I'm not myself) it's the fact that they don't take other people into consideration (athiests, muslims, etc).

I went to a roman catholic primary school and later went on to a roman catholic secondary school. I remember in primary school, we were always forced to say prayers in assemblies, before breaks and stuff. We also went to the church on some days, which was okay because it was right next to the school. I don't think anyone in the school really believed anything to do with Christianity or religion. When saying the prayers, we would all mumble and some people would just mouth the words. And if the teacher leading the prayer thought we weren't being "sincere" enough, they would make us start over again without mumbling or mouthing the words.

Sometimes we were forced to sing hymns, which pissed everyone off. I remember one teacher in particular who had us singing the same hymn over and over again for about an hour one day, because it was her favourite. God, I wanted to punch her.

Secondary school was pretty much the same with prayers, but we weren't forced to sing hymns. Religious Education wasn't too bad. They just taught us a few facts about the major world religions, like the names of their holy books and stuff. No forced indoctrination, thank God (pardon the pun). When I left, I started thinking about religion, atheism and my beliefs. I concluded that I was atheist/agnostic, and it was only then I thought to myself "What right did they have forcing me to pray to an invisible man?!" What's ironic is that when they made us start over with the prayers, they always told us that it was our own time we were wasting. When in fact, they were the ones wasting everyone's time.

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Originally Posted by Raspberry

But if a teacher turned around to me and said "No, god's work isn't an example of conflict." I probably (most likely) would've gotten incredibly pissed off and replied "Well considering the amount of people killed during natural disasters I would say that god is therefore an example of conflict." Or something along those lines. Probably would get detention but what the hell. Some teachers cross the line and need to know that just because they have authority doesn't mean they can do and say anything they like.

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nono that's not what he meant... my bad >_>

he meant that....... hmm...... i forgot..... but that's not what he meant :P lol


@heavysleeper

if they told me to restart, i would say I am atheist. I wouldn't Give a Horses ass in their ass about they reply.

pfft..... religion in schools....... I can't believe schools are so ******* stupid.... it irritates me SO ******* MUCH >:(

Anyways.... on the topic of false hope in schools :P

One time my teacher told me that they were gonna change the anthem (I live in Canada) and than everyone said DON'T and they didn't. They were gonna change the "God keep our Land" part because of Atheists and Agnostics. I had the incredible urge to blurt out that was atheist, but instead held my ground.

Every time my teacher talks about his religion or my friends talk about their religion, i just say, yell, or whisper "AH FUCKING FUCKTARDS" and shut down until they shut up.... :P

In my middle/high school, religion didn't even get mentioned.. pretty much. Aside from philosophy class, of course, where it got thoroughly kicked in the butt XD

I know of other schools in the area, though, which have religious undertones. One of them is a 'christian school', apparently though only to the extent that they read a passage from the bible at the start of the day (which itself even depends on whether you have the teacher who has the motivation to do so). So that's pretty much the furthest they go.. Aside from that, they have classes on 'life perspectives' where they handle all kinds of religions and several philosophical views.

In my view, I'm pretty much on your side.. Education should be all about thorough education. Teaching culture, language, math, logic and reasoning, and science, the consensus therein and the issues/controversies. If you call yourself a christian school, that's fine. If you want to teach christianity/any other religion, fine as well, as long as it stays in a separate class.

If the situation really is that bad, and it persists, there might be ways to fight the good fight. I'm sure there are.. Complaints, letters and suggestions en masse, getting parents involved (en masse, of course), establishing some sort of student participation group to help in the betterment of the school (because remember, the demographic in schools that knows best what the quality of the education is, is the student him/herself ;)).

So I'd say get involved somehow.


... though in a respectful way of course.. No need to argue, to get mad, or to get violent and stuff.. I bet to you that if you get organized, get your thoughts together, get the students and their parents involved (if only by collecting their names, complaints, and signatures), and the higher-up folks noted, and all that in an organized, cohesive, well-said, non-aggressive way, you might stand a chance, more so than you might think. Do not underestimate the power of the organized action of the masses for a just cause ;)

Just get everyone to throw their bibles on the ground and stomp on them during assembly.

On principle you shouldn't have to put up with that shit. If it's a religious school, fair enough, but it's not so take a stand.

You could even write to your local government. Because they are just pretending to be non-religious. Which I would say breaks some sort of law.
You'd have to tape some of the speeches etc. that they have. I definitely wouldn't put up with it in a state school. Hell, I went to a religious school and I didn't put up with it lol

Nah. It's worse in primary schools, but at the time I wasn't really old enough to think about it much and just got on with it.

I only get assemblies every couple of weeks and most of the time they're just for updates (because my school's a wreck and can't afford loudspeakers and everything's done by paper). It just seems that every person they call in to talk to us is religious. A person from the local church, then someone from a christian camp, a priest, people who gave us bibles (which were quickly disposed of) etc etc. We don't need to pray or sing, though we did regularly in primary schools.

Hmm, @Heavy Sleeper maybe it's a scottish thing. I dunno about glasgow, but that's what it seems to be like here in fife!

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Originally Posted by Raspberry

Hmm, @Heavy Sleeper maybe it's a scottish thing. I dunno about glasgow, but that's what it seems to be like here in fife!

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A scottish thing for schools to force religion on children? If that's what you mean, I doubt it. There are plenty of religious schools around the world and I'm sure the children there go through the same thing. In some places it's even a lot worse.

Like I said, the schools I went to were roman catholic, so it's not really a big surprise that they expected us to pray. But I have a few relatives that went to non-religious schools. They weren't expected to pray, sing hymns, attend masses or anything like that. My nephew attended one of those schools and talking to him one day when we were both younger, I was quite surprised to see how little he knew about Christianity. He didn't even know how to make the sign of the cross, which I found really weird since I had been taught it at an early age. :lol:

You should sue your school, by the way.

I'm beginning to like my school more and more with the enhancement of this thread...

The only religious thing they did today was say that it was [INSERT RANDOM WORD PRETENDING TO BE CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY HERE] day

srsly, christians have so much holidays :P

Meh, at least we have the holidays :D Though I guess it just seems that way because we call spring and winter holidays Easter and Christmas holidays.

Nah I'm not gonna sue my school. Apart from the odd thing here and there it's actually pretty good, and rated the best in the area for education etc. Most people just get mildly annoyed with the religious talks.

Oh, and I feel I have to emphasise that the hyms and prayers were in my primary school, which I went to from the age of 5-11. Not in the highschool I'm in now :) Just making sure people catch that.

I think they lied to you when they told you it wasn't a religious school. If priest visits you, and you do prayer in class and you some times go to church ceremonies then you are in a religious school. It isn't like it is just a little religious, or there is a small cross over. You are in a deeply religious school, and your only a couple of steps from having priest and nuns teaching the classes.

Public schools in the US are not allowed to do any of the stuff you are talking about. If you didn't say so, most people would probably assume you went to a religious school, because it seems like religion is buried deep into the school structure.

A PRIMARY SCHOOL!!!!!!! THAT'S EVEN WORSE! Tricking little children into shitty shit sicles of shittyness upon shit shitty pure shit SHIT within ass shit in shitsicles

I don't do prayer in class. They were in assemblies in my primary school, as were the visits to church. We do get visits by priests, but not often. Most of the visitors to the school are from some religious group or another though... I mean can't they get someone in who is from a uni or something?

Still pisses me off though :pissed:

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Originally Posted by davej

We did not have religion in my school. We didn't even have optional religious classes which would have been nice. On the other hand, my daughter is attending a private Christian based school. they still teach all the "science stuff" but at the same time they do have religious classes which includes a "religions of the world" class that covers many different religions which she will take later on.

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I went to a school much like the one you describe your daughter going to, except in my case we didn't have a great science curriculum. The only decent science classes I ever had were as electives at college. The world religions course was really good though.

The greatest assumption is that those who speak with religious terms and supposed practices are religious--which is exactly the opposite of the truth in almost every case. One would be hard pressed to find even one church that practiced religion.

The 8th grade 'earth science' course at my junior high was a requirement for all students. The first unit of the curriculum was a three-week debunking of flat earth theory, young-earth theory, and superstitious belief, taught by a man with a gilded T-Rex skull replica, a studio photo of his daughter in front of the replica ("that thing cost more than my first car!") and a trilobite belt buckle. All students had to present a project on an unfalsifiable phenomenon of their choice.

Feels good man.

Where i am in the U.S. religion in school is pretty much avoided because of fear of lawsuits. We briefly talk about the main religions but just a little history on them, nothing in depth. But if the teachers try to actually talk about their personal religion or try to impose it onto the students, they can get in a lot of trouble.

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Originally Posted by Raspberry

I don't do prayer in class. They were in assemblies in my primary school, as were the visits to church. We do get visits by priests, but not often. Most of the visitors to the school are from some religious group or another though... I mean can't they get someone in who is from a uni or something?

Still pisses me off though :pissed:

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They SHOULD get non-religious people in. So fucking tell someone. It's bullshit that they can get away with it.

Nevik - We didn't even have science at all in my primary school. It's amazing anyone came out of there as Atheists.
We had Religion, Sport, Math, English. I think that's it. Such a dodgy school lol

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Originally Posted by tommo

Nevik - We didn't even have science at all in my primary school. It's amazing anyone came out of there as Atheists.
We had Religion, Sport, Math, English. I think that's it. Such a dodgy school lol

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My school was a small, private, Christian school. I am the only open atheist that I know of in my graduating class (which consisted of 17 people). I know another who is still in the closet about his beliefs, and one, who I'm convinced is having doubts about her faith that she won't admit, but I'm not going to push her on that.

Our science curriculum consisted of Chemistry, Earth Science, and Biology. All of the courses were influenced by religious propaganda, but in varying degrees. Chemistry was the one which was affected the least by it. The curriculum in middle school (ages 12-14/15 usually) was far worse. I was fed so much blatantly false information by our science teacher. I really hope to see her again so I can give her a piece of my mind. It's truly shocking that someone who has dedicated their life to education could go to such lengths to misrepresent, distort, and dismiss legitimate scientific theory. Looking back I'm really surprised that I came out an atheist.

I've always been athiest, I just used logic when it came to telling bible stories. I was the kid who said "But, Mrs. ____, if god created everything, why did he make diseases?" etc etc etc. Not all of the teachers in my primary were religious, it was just part of school.

I also remember in nursary (in germany) they forced me to drink milk everyday, even though I was almost throwing up because I hate it so much. If I didn't drink it, I couldn't play.

Schools are pretty poor these days, I think.

^

that's stupid >_>

EDIT:

i meant the milk thing

In the end I started putting crumbs in it, so other people couldn't drink the milk either. They started giving me water after that :D

Woooooooooooo water

EDIT: aww you can't fully caps it :(

im athiest and grew up in public schools, but my grandparents convinced my mom to send me to catholic high school, which REALLY PISSED ME OFF. i dont mind, i actually know some people there who are athiest, and 1 who is wiccan. the only thing is i see religion class as an absolute waste of time, when i need a study hall after i packed my schedule up so much. im in church history this year, and i learn what really happened in west civ (that teacher really isnt religious, but he dosent advertise it) with the facts, and then i go into church history where they dumb it down to 3rd grade material and change and ommit facts to make the church sound all glorious. if anything going to catholic school has strengthened my athiesm since i see all the crazy stuff they believe. and my friends who went on to public high school, they have a latin teacher who calls them pagans and has them read the bible in latin, and we dont even do that. people should report that stuff, as long as they dont go crazy with it (one family wont let a school graduate in a cathedral, even with all religious symbols covered and no religion discussed.)

I'd be pissed off too if my parents sent me to a religious school. My family consider themselves christian, but we never go to church, pray, anything. My parents swear all the time etc. I'm athiest though, and I think my brother is too. We don't really talk about it.

I believe the church used to bible to control people. Not so much now (or as I can tell) but I think the whole idea is rediculous. I'm doing space in physics right now, and they zoomed out from the solar system, to the milky way, to our cluster of galaxies, until everything looked like a chain. Seriously, I doubt that god made all that millions of millions (and more) of light years of space just for the banter, and only made ONE planet which could sustain life.

Really, how can a religious school teach that AND religion? The church ISN'T glorious. They've probably made thousands of "sins".

^

this thread pisses me off, but i feel compelled to read it :P lol

and i wanna see them zoom out into space, seems like a cool vid

Aw I know. It's one of those threads haha :P

You might find it on youtube, I dunno what it's called though. Journey into through space or something along those lines.

there was a time when the church and state were one. we call this time the dark ages. lol XP. and the church is absolutely full of sins, or "learning experiences of the church" as it is sometimes put in religion class...

I doubt there is a perfect person who does not sin.

The bible was made by men who made rules for an era that no longer exists. Society has changed and the picture of the perfect person has changed too. The bible is outdated. The church used religion to control it's people.

Or at least, that is what I believe.

I just don't understand how intelligent people such as teachers teach in schools that believe this idea, when extended science classes probably contradict most of it and they should be able to think logically and see it.

people are raised into it i guess, but i dont get why people would convert to a religion. its made up answers to what people couldnt answer previously, but we can now. the christians have been wrong about a geocentric universe, evolution, and alot of other things. many people have turned it into picking things out of the bible they agree with to make them feel like they get eternal bliss in the afterlife, and disregarding the rest of it as not to be taken literaly, lost in translation, or no longer applys today. really none of it applys today, sure it teaches good morals, but people should really have good morals on their own, without needing a book to tell them what they are.

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Originally Posted by Raspberry

Aw I know. It's one of those threads haha :P

You might find it on youtube, I dunno what it's called though. Journey into through space or something along those lines.

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nope... thats not what its called :/

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Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

nope... thats not what its called :/

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There's this one, which is the intro to the movie Contact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLQF-4uyD4Y

Then this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPm3QVKlBJg

And there's the older, original version of the one above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0

oh cool, universe zoom-outs! I'm partial to this one myself:

this

OMG THESE R SO COOL :D

thx :P

Damn...so...much...hate.

I've attended private catholic schools for grade school and high school and they were awesome. Maybe it's just where I live or the amount of money my parents were able to spend on my education? We only ever had 1 religion class at a time...and I had some amazing chemistry, AP biology, anatomy & physiology, and physics classes in HS. Religion wasn't even an issue really. In fact the only religion class I really remember from HS was World Religions, where we learned about Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. It was a great class. We only went to church on holidays, which wasn't frequently...and when we did, we went to a really short non denominational (?) church that was right next door. In grade school we used to go once a week, which was annoying, but I was a liturgical dancer so we got to give performances while everyone else just sat there.

Anyway...regardless, I do have respect for my catholic upbringings, but I am non-religious now and pursuing a career in science/medicine. So being brought up religious definitely doesn't mean you're going to turn out a certain way. It's interesting because the Christian people seem a hundred times pushier about religion than anyone at my catholic schools...but I also know people who grew up in really strict catholic schools with mean nuns and they are sort of scarred for life. It just depends on what is the norm where you live, and the quality of the schools you are attending. I think it's silly to get so worked up about religion though, it's not the devil. :P