Thread: Buddhist rebirth and Karma

Rebirth is not talking of a literal rebirth, as in some kind of soul that you are coming back as different life. What it is talking about is the changing of forms. Right now there is a collection of matter(your body) and ideas that make up a thing you call you. These things will continually change. Eventually you will die and your body will turn into dirt, a tree, an animal etc.

Buddhism is very earthy, it's not about magic or supernatural phenomenon.

Karma is basically determinism, chaos theory. An actions karma describes it's tendencies. Being nice to people creates more likelyhood of good things, treating people badly creates more opportunity for bad things to happen. Things happen for a reason, the world has a logic to it, it is not just random. Another thread about karma.

What do you find confusing about them?

I have been under the impression that humans are thrown back into the birth cycle until they reach enlightenment (except for Bodhisattva's who voluntarily stay on earth until everyone achieves nirvana). I think karma is metaphorical and just meant to be a moral guideline similar to the categorical imperative. I also understand that there are very different sects of Buddhism with different views on important issues dealing with rebirth, enlightenment,etc.

I am confused about with what karma has to do with chaos theory. I have understood chaos theory to be an aperiodic random behavior in a deterministic system. So if initial conditions are changed, the otherwise deterministic system becomes unpredictable and thus not deterministic.

Yeah I don't know much about chaos theory so I'm probably wrong. I was thinking of the butterfly effect. The beutterfly flaps his wings and the karma of thatt is a hurricane. The butterfly effect is something completely different isn't it?

[regarding reincarnation]Self is thrown back into the system until it realizes it's impermenant and illusory nature. Your delusions(including the one that you are what you think you are) get thrown back into the system until you see through them. They effect each action. The idea of a seperate self is recreated until it is realized that all is one.

Nirvana is a band not a place.

Yes the butterfly effect is part of chaos theory. The original statement (a paper by Edward Lorenz) was "Does the flap of a butterfly's wings (a seemingly insignificant change in initial conditions) in Brazil set off a tornado(random behavior) in Texas?"

Ok so nirvana is not a place but a state of being?

Also my question to you is: would you want to escape the birth cycle and become one with everything? (sorry if that sounds like an ignorant question I have a surface understanding of Buddhism)

Originally Posted by stormcrow

Ok so nirvana is not a place but a state of being?

Also my question to you is: would you want to escape the birth cycle and become one with everything? (sorry if that sounds like an ignorant question I have a surface understanding of Buddhism)

As far as I understand, but don't take my word for it, find out yourself. That just popped into my head and I had to say it.

It's more like you already are one with everything and by looking at things this way you don't re-create past suffering, past delusion of self as seperate, which causes violence and suffering.

Think of rebirth as a "re-packging" of awareness

When John Doe dies, all that is John Doe is dead

John Doe is not being re-incarnated

The awareness behind John Doe, that gave rise to John Doe..

This is what is being re-incarnated



Karma can be thought of in as simple a term as Momentum

The momentum created by ones day to day actions is nothing to lament over

It is the momentum created by ones own self view that is driving the wagon

The day to day actions are merely the wheels the wagon is riding on...

Not the movement itself