• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 15 of 15
    Like Tree2Likes
    • 1 Post By Original Poster
    • 1 Post By Original Poster

    Thread: The Rites of Fear

    1. #1
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11

      The Rites of Fear

      About a year ago I read the Four Agreements which, if you haven't read, I highly recommend. It is a very accessible book and I finished it in about 4 hours despite being a slow reader.

      Anyway, after Miguel is done talking about the four agreements (Be impeccable with your word, take nothing personally, make no assumptions, always do your best) he describes 3 ways to accomplish this freedom. The first path he describes is letting go of everything you "believe" in whether consciously or unconsciously. Only be stripping yourself of these illusions can you come to grip with what is. The third path he describes is facing the angel of death which sounds like a rite of manhood from the ancient world. He describes it as an instant ego killer. Once you leave everything for the angel every single successive moment is a gift.

      I'm here to talk about the second path he describes to freedom: The Rites of Fear. Unfortunately for me there are far too many unconscious beliefs floating around for me to be able to just net them all up and let them go. Furthermore, though I'd love to face the angel of death I don't have a phone number nor a home address so I'm fucked on that end as well. Luckily for me he's got a path that's right up my alley.

      The idea is simple: Conquer all your fears - liberate your mind. There's obviously more philosophy to it than that but it is assumed as one begins to feel the strength of their fears they'll come across this philosophy naturally. Granted conquering fears is a troublesome thing since our greatest enemy is not fear itself but the illusion we tell ourselves that this thing is really scaring us... it's just boring or illogical or whatever.

      Something's been haunting me lately and it has nothing to do with the four agreements, that book just helps validate my current fear conquering mood. The truth is some quotations from great men have been fucking with me such as Oscar Wilde, "To live is the rarest thing in the world, most simply exist" or Albert Camus, "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."

      Truth be told it's the knowledge that I'll be dead moments from now. These moments may seem like they're taking forever when they're passing.... but then they'll pass and I'll be gone and everything I ever accomplished will be gone eventually as well. And in an infinite universe everything is meaningless... a gift for the sake of it. To spend even a moment doing anything less than living with abandon seems like a tragic waste.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 06-17-2011 at 04:26 PM.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    2. #2
      Banned
      Join Date
      Nov 2007
      LD Count
      im here for you
      Location
      australia
      Posts
      3,677
      Likes
      415
      if you're doing what you enjoy, you are "truly living," aren't you?

      I don't understand this "Angel of Death" business. could you clarify what that's all about?

    3. #3
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      As far as I know it's reference to various ceremonies which force people to let go of death and all things with it.

      It's not what this topic is about, this topic is about facing fears as a means of liberating the mind.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    4. #4
      DEATH TO FANATICS! StonedApe's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      Gender
      Location
      toledo,OH
      Posts
      2,269
      Likes
      417
      DJ Entries
      61
      Hmm, good to know, I just picked that up at a used book sale.

      But I think as long as your actions aren't motivated by fear you're probably good. So just look at what you're doing and ask yourself why? When you're motivated by fear it feels completely different, even if it's a subtle fear or an unconscious one. Just be very aware of yourself, each muscle, and you can tell if it is fear leading you.

      And sometimes you have to act out of fear, like if some big dude is gonna rob you and you don't have a gun or anything, just fucking run. Don't live by any dogma, act with your own intelligence.
      157 is a prime number. The next prime is 163 and the previous prime is 151, which with 157 form a sexy prime triplet. Taking the arithmetic mean of those primes yields 157, thus it is a balanced prime.

      Women and rhythm section first - Jaco Pastorious

    5. #5
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Trying to live by a dogma is foolish if only because in the moment we usually we fall short of our principles. In that situation the best decision would be to run, too. Facing fears is not about going to the worst part of the city and looking for danger. But it could be perhaps having someone lock you in a coffin for an hour.

      Also, I'm not looking to be all good on the subject. I'm not scared of letting fear motivate my life or of failing to meet some author's expectations of a liberated mind. I catch myself observing a world where people exist as empty shells impatiently waiting for something they refuse to acknowledge to themselves. That's frightening, and it's that thought that has me freaked out; that I'm just another one of those pieces of clothing fluttering from the clothesline. I understand I'm not more important than the next person. I don't have to be. It's more or less just a good reminder to face things like failure, embarrassment and pain, etc... rather than live with regret.
      Matt123 likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    6. #6
      Raz
      Raz is offline
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Raz's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Posts
      219
      Likes
      3
      I have a few tools I use in handeling fear.

      Let your self be inspired by what you fear, this putts you in a place fear cant reach.

      Have a blessing attitude against what you fear, this putts you in a fearless state.

      Imagine you are facing a dark demon in your mind. This demon represents all you fear.
      Now just stand there and face the demon and bless it with all your heart. infuse it with your blessing and watch it transform from darkness to light.

      This kind of mental training has worked wonders for me =)

    7. #7
      Member Nefarious's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2007
      Gender
      Posts
      297
      Likes
      8
      This book I haven't read it but from the description it sounds like a really simplified version of impeccability that is described in the books of Carlos Castaneda. This simplified impeccability supposed to make you a better "normal" person. While the true impeccability supposed to make you a mage and it's much more complicated.

      The basis of all of this is 3 human complexes that bind you: Fear, Self Importance, Pity
      all human behavior and ego is governed by those complexes and they make you the normal person you are. Getting rid of them isn't that simple it is actually the basis of magic.

      The angel of death thing sounds like its part of the fear complex. The idea to beat the angel of death probably means the acceptance of death. Acceptance of death is to never forget that you are going to die and thus make all your actions worthy of your death. All of your actions need to be executed like it's the last thing you do before dying whatever your action is.

    8. #8
      DEATH TO FANATICS! StonedApe's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      Gender
      Location
      toledo,OH
      Posts
      2,269
      Likes
      417
      DJ Entries
      61
      Just feel the fear. Go into it. When you really look at it, is there even anything there? Just assumptions, no truth.
      157 is a prime number. The next prime is 163 and the previous prime is 151, which with 157 form a sexy prime triplet. Taking the arithmetic mean of those primes yields 157, thus it is a balanced prime.

      Women and rhythm section first - Jaco Pastorious

    9. #9
      Casanova Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Tagger First Class Populated Wall Made lots of Friends on DV Referrer Bronze 5000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Aeolar's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 2011
      Gender
      Posts
      513
      Likes
      192
      DJ Entries
      28
      Courage.

      Kitty says: "Achoo..!"

    10. #10
      Raz
      Raz is offline
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Raz's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Posts
      219
      Likes
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by stonedape View Post
      Just feel the fear. Go into it. When you really look at it, is there even anything there? Just assumptions, no truth.
      Love it =)

    11. #11
      DEATH TO FANATICS! StonedApe's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      Gender
      Location
      toledo,OH
      Posts
      2,269
      Likes
      417
      DJ Entries
      61
      Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
      Love it =)
      I feel strange that despite having these insights, and really experiencing them, that I still get anxious sometimes. Even my guitar teacher, who's a zen priest whom I learned/am learning meditation from does sometimes. I guess I can pretty much always difuse the situation now, but I wonder if it's possible to get to the point where fear doesn't even come in. Maybe if you were always completely tuned in to the present. I dunno.
      157 is a prime number. The next prime is 163 and the previous prime is 151, which with 157 form a sexy prime triplet. Taking the arithmetic mean of those primes yields 157, thus it is a balanced prime.

      Women and rhythm section first - Jaco Pastorious

    12. #12
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      Only through testing the vessel do you understand what it is made of. That fear is a reminder that you have a purpose in this world. Fear, to me at this stage in my life, is not a reminder to avoid something but a gateway to cross. Obviously I make decisions carefully but I believe in doing things because you are afraid.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    13. #13
      DEATH TO FANATICS! StonedApe's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      Gender
      Location
      toledo,OH
      Posts
      2,269
      Likes
      417
      DJ Entries
      61
      I can see that, when I experience it it's always in relation to time, not having enough of it basically. But this is really the equivalent of having to much responsability, to much purpose. I think simplicity is the answer, at least for me.
      157 is a prime number. The next prime is 163 and the previous prime is 151, which with 157 form a sexy prime triplet. Taking the arithmetic mean of those primes yields 157, thus it is a balanced prime.

      Women and rhythm section first - Jaco Pastorious

    14. #14
      Raz
      Raz is offline
      Member Achievements:
      1 year registered Veteran First Class 5000 Hall Points
      Raz's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Posts
      219
      Likes
      3
      assumptions are the source of fear and the fear produced can lead to more fear based assumptions (or at least thats what I assume after studying this observation =) ). The roots of all fear producing assumptions is: assuming that we live (can die), the assumtion that there is more then one of us here and the assumtion that we have a fear of pain. from one of these assumption all other fear assumptions are born. They are the roots that once pulled and not resown will set you free.

      These 3 assumptions are very convincing as the mind can find "proof" that this is so all around. Even if we experiance otherwise it is a true challange to stop sowing these seeds.

      I had a "near death" experiance about 7 years ago (drowning accident) where I experianced awakening from this dream. Even tho I had this experiance of total remembarance and years later had the experiance confirmed by countles other people having near death experiances (recomend http://www.near-death.com/ ) there is still part of my mind wanting to go: Realy? are you sure?

      This is as close as I can come to describing it:
      imagine you are sleeping in your bed, having a nonlucid dream, not remembering your "real life". Suddenly you wake up in your bed and you remember the vastness of your life (compared to the dream). In your dream you where contracted and unaware compared to your awake life. it was like that but unimaginably bigger and more natural.
      Last edited by Raz; 06-30-2011 at 05:19 PM.

    15. #15
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4140
      DJ Entries
      11
      I've not only read extensively enough about the other side to believe it (not just near-death.com but the website did help confirm many ideas from the secret teachings of all ages and buddhist theology) but I've also seen it myself. A couple of different ways actually. And it's terrifying at first because you are forced to let go of every worldly foundation you know. You realize everything you leaned upon with confidence is not so solid after all, this entire structure is held in place by bits of string. That can be scary if you're the arrogant sort that thinks they're right about everything because you realize out there right and wrong have no meaning, it's all just possibility.

      In most situations there is doubt whether or not you're doing the right thing. A lot of times excuse wins out. We excuse ourselves from talking to pretty girls because they probably have boyfriends, and our chance will come in the future or some bullshit. We let the chance of failure outweigh the chance of success. To me, the only reason not to do something you want to do is because you know you shouldn't do it. If you're not sure... then by god you better do that fucking thing so you know for sure. Don't let doubt beat you for a second.

      Ruiz talks about assumptions being the burden the holds us down as well only he calls them agreements and says most of them are unconscious. One of the ways to liberate the mind, according to him, is to go through all these agreements and break them. Unlearn everything. Use your experiences as a tool to act with purpose rather than react to conditioning. Facing all of one's fears speeds up this process. Your conditioning is alleviated naturally through desensitization to its source.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 07-13-2011 at 08:25 PM.
      Raz likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    Similar Threads

    1. Can FEAR be a dream sign???? Many of my dreams are about fear
      By giogoMoget2 in forum Dream Signs and Recall
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 11-26-2010, 04:05 AM
    2. Fear in LD's?
      By warhammer in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 8
      Last Post: 05-02-2009, 12:59 AM
    3. I Over Came My Fear
      By spiritofthewolf in forum Lucid Experiences
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: 01-02-2007, 08:42 AM
    4. Fear of self, over fear of danger
      By Cornelius in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 10-18-2005, 02:45 AM
    5. Fear...
      By Siav in forum Introduction Zone
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: 08-19-2005, 09:57 AM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •