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    Thread: A Question to all Atheists on Dreamviews

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      Question A Question to all Atheists on Dreamviews

      Here is a question to all atheists posting on Dreamviews.

      The Scenario: You have received an offer of $1,000,000.00 (1 Million USD) to torture an innocent man or woman to death in the most gruesome way. No one will find out about it, and you will not be punished in any way, shape or form. The only thing that will happen is that you will be richer by One Million Dollars!

      Question: Would you do it?

      Yes, or no.

      For either choice, please elaborate.

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      Member JussiKala's Avatar
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      "To atheists"

      What? Why address this to only us? I mean, for real? We're not monsters. We have morality. Might somewhat differ from religious morality in some cases but mostly it's the same. The fact that you directed this question to only the atheists on this site is just laughable, and shows your ignorance of how human morality works. I suggest you actually start thinking for a while before you start classifying a group of people as free of morality and such. I don't understand how most extremist religious folk think atheists are immoral evil monsters driven by satan who only DENY god. No. That's not the case at all. I somehow get the image from this post you just made here that you have never met a real atheist and you have been taught that anyone who doesn't believe is evil, which is a position I find many christians hold. (assuming the religion in question is christianity). /Rant

      Of course I would not do it. I do not want suffering for others even if I myself gain something from it. If there was a scenario where it was me being tortured or the other guy being tortured, I'd choose to save the other guys suffering. Though, these questions are overly simplified to have obvious choices on what to do.

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      Why address it to atheists? It's because atheists have also posted threads with specific questions only for Christians or Creationists. You don't see me whining about that, do you?

      Now to the topic. You say you wouldn't do it, and my question to you is WHY wouldn't you do it. If there are no negative consequences for your actions, then why not?

      Why is it wrong to torture and kill this man, if you won't be punished?

      If I were an atheist, of course I would do it, and for much less than 1 Million.

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      So your mother taught you, if you torture someone you go to hell. If it is ever shown that hell doesn't exist you would then torture and kill someone for money?

      My mother taught me, do to others what you would have done to yourself. I don't want to get tortured and so I would never be that mean to a person for any reason.

      Who is more messed up in the head?
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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      Here is a question to all atheists posting on Dreamviews.

      The Scenario: You have received an offer of $1,000,000.00 (1 Million USD) to torture an innocent man or woman to death in the most gruesome way. No one will find out about it, and you will not be punished in any way, shape or form. The only thing that will happen is that you will be richer by One Million Dollars!

      Question: Would you do it?

      Yes, or no.

      For either choice, please elaborate.
      No. Not conducive to a peaceful society. Would feel terrible for causing that much pain to a person for money.

      Inspiration for question? Seems loaded.
      Last edited by BLUELINE976; 07-09-2011 at 01:44 AM.
      The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
      I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
      Formerly known as BLUELINE976

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      So your mother taught you, if you torture someone you go to hell. If it is ever shown that hell doesn't exist you would then torture and kill someone for money?

      My mother taught me, do to others what you would have done to yourself. I don't want to get tortured and so I would never be that mean to a person for any reason.

      Who is more messed up in the head?
      But did your mother give you an explanation as to why it is wrong to do to things to others that you wouldn't have then do to you?

      Why is it wrong?

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      Quote Originally Posted by BLUELINE976 View Post
      No. Not conducive to a peaceful society. Would feel terrible for causing that much pain to a person for money.

      Inspiration for question? Seems loaded.
      Peaceful society? As I said, there are no consequences here. You won't be punished, and no one will find out. You will only be 1 Million Dollars richer.

      So why not?

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      Member JussiKala's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      Why address it to atheists? It's because atheists have also posted threads with specific questions only for Christians or Creationists. You don't see me whining about that, do you?

      Now to the topic. You say you wouldn't do it, and my question to you is WHY wouldn't you do it. If there are no negative consequences for your actions, then why not?

      Why is it wrong to torture and kill this man, if you won't be punished?

      If I were an atheist, of course I would do it, and for much less than 1 Million.
      You seem to not comprehend the BASIC essence of what almost every atheist I know thinks and does. There ARE negative consequences for my actions. People suffer. I don't want people to suffer, which is what I stated in my previous post. I wouldn't do it because I do not want people to suffer. That's it. Simple.

      I find the whole concept of christian thinking of "I am only good because I'll get punished if I am not" appalling. It doesn't really make you good if you are only doing it for the rewards/possible punishment for bad behaviour, now does it?


      You see, you are only thinking about yourself here. "In the crhistian world view, I will get punished for doing bad things, in the atheist world view, I won't, therefore it's okay to kill and rape everyone!!!!". NO. That is just idiotic. I am not doing everything in my life just that I myself would have the best experience in the end. I do stuff to make others happy as well. What in this is so hard to understand? And don't ask me why I want other people happy, if you can't figure that out, it's hopeless for you.

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      Terminally Out of Phase Descensus's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      Peaceful society? As I said, there are no consequences here. You won't be punished, and no one will find out. You will only be 1 Million Dollars richer.

      So why not?
      Maintaining peace goes beyond punishment/non-punishment. A society predicated on the disappearance and torture of its members in favor of short term monetary gains is hardly peaceful, whether the assailant is known or not.

      Again, inspiration for question?
      The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended. - Frédéric Bastiat
      I try to deny myself any illusions or delusions, and I think that this perhaps entitles me to try and deny the same to others, at least as long as they refuse to keep their fantasies to themselves. - Christopher Hitchens
      Formerly known as BLUELINE976

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      Quote Originally Posted by JussiKala View Post
      There ARE negative consequences for my actions. People suffer. I don't want people to suffer, which is what I stated in my previous post. I wouldn't do it because I do not want people to suffer. That's it. Simple.
      O.k., I accept your explanation. Your reasons for not doing it are that it makes you feel bad if you make other people suffer. (Although I think you'd get over it pretty fast, once you get the million.)

      Now I want to hear other atheists on this issue.
      Last edited by Melisa; 07-09-2011 at 01:55 AM.

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      I'm an atheist but that doesn't affect my own answer to the question. As a person with morality, I would choose purposefully to keep using it even when offered material goods - my lack of guilt is worth far more than money.

      In other words, no, I wouldn't do it.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      Here is a question to all atheists posting on Dreamviews.

      The Scenario: You have received an offer of $1,000,000.00 (1 Million USD) to torture an innocent man or woman to death in the most gruesome way. No one will find out about it, and you will not be punished in any way, shape or form. The only thing that will happen is that you will be richer by One Million Dollars!

      Question: Would you do it?

      Yes, or no.

      For either choice, please elaborate.
      No. I would have to live with the horror of inflicting that much pain and suffering on another human being, and especially for such a flippant "reward." No amount of money in the world would be able to drive out the horror.

      As for the "why", well, turn it around. How would you feel if you were just randomly snatched off the street and tortured to death for money and/or amusement? If you can't say something should apply to you, how can you say it should apply to anyone else? It's the golden rule.

      Side note: the golden rule predates Jesus by at least 1700 years and is found in nearly every world religion, as well as many secular codes of morality.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mario92 View Post
      No. I would have to live with the horror of inflicting that much pain and suffering on another human being, and especially for such a flippant "reward." No amount of money in the world would be able to drive out the horror.

      As for the "why", well, turn it around. How would you feel if you were just randomly snatched off the street and tortured to death for money and/or amusement? If you can't say something should apply to you, how can you say it should apply to anyone else? It's the golden rule.

      Side note: the golden rule predates Jesus by at least 1700 years and is found in nearly every world religion, as well as many secular codes of morality.
      The "golden rule" has little value if we are not being punished for our actions. If there is no consequence, then why shouldn't I do it? If I need the money, I would do it.

      I would also do it for $100,000 bucks.

      And as far as very Evil criminals are concerned, I would torture them for free, and their families.

      If you are an atheist in such a scenario, you have nothing to be afraid of. You can do it, without any consequences aside from bad conscience after the event. There is no hindrance here! (And I know more about this than I'm letting on at the moment.).

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      Again, it's not about the consequences. It's that most of us actually want good for others instead of only wanting good for ourselves (access to heaven for example, by helping others, as the christian view promises)

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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      And as far as very Evil criminals are concerned, I would torture them for free, and their families.
      Now why would you do that? Their family members, really? That's a far more interesting thing to say than the original question asked here. Can you explain that? If you can I'll try to explain my answer better.

      No, I wouldn't do it.

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      Well, this is the worst thread I've ever seen, well done.

      No I wouldn't do this because I'm not a fucking psychopath. I accept the categorical imperative; "act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law." I believe that human life is valuable. I believe you may not encroach upon the free will of another, unless it is necessary in order to impel them not to act immorally (for instance, wrestling a gun from a hostage taker).

      This is not for any selfish reason whatsoever. I find Blueline's answer to be lacking.

      I'll second what JussiKala said. I find it horrific that you somehow consider it morally superior to only be compelled to act morally by totally selfish fear of reprimand and desire for reward, or to be told what to do by someone else; as if, without religion, you wouldn't have any motivation, or wouldn't know, that it's wrong to kill.

      The most ludicrous thing about it all is that it's not even true. You don't have the morals that you do because of religion. You largely have the morals that you do by your own autonomous reason, just like secular people. I'm hoping you don't think that if a man rapes an unmarried woman, she should be forced to marry him? Presuming you don't, on what basis do you reject this? It's God's word in the Bible (Deuteronomy, I think).

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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      Why address it to atheists? It's because atheists have also posted threads with specific questions only for Christians or Creationists. You don't see me whining about that, do you?

      Now to the topic. You say you wouldn't do it, and my question to you is WHY wouldn't you do it. If there are no negative consequences for your actions, then why not?

      Why is it wrong to torture and kill this man, if you won't be punished?

      If I were an atheist, of course I would do it, and for much less than 1 Million.
      But they werent questions like this, they were questions about their faith, now please give us the real reason you directed this to atheists.

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      So you're saying that if you didn't think you would be punished, you would torture people? What kind of a horrible person are you?!

      And why the hell would you torture the FAMILIES of the criminals? Even if the criminal was the only guilty one, and their family did not know about their misdeeds?

      And you consider yourself morally superior?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      And as far as very Evil criminals are concerned, I would torture them for free, and their families.
      Carera?
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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      O.k., I accept your explanation. Your reasons for not doing it are that it makes you feel bad if you make other people suffer. (Although I think you'd get over it pretty fast, once you get the million.)

      Now I want to hear other atheists on this issue.
      WRONG!

      its not because WE feel bad, thats only 50%. The other is because its NOT RIGHT!

      I have reason to believe you are Carera on another computer.
      edit: sniped

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      Quote Originally Posted by gameoverlord345 View Post
      WRONG!

      its not because WE feel bad, thats only 50%. The other is because its NOT RIGHT!(
      Who says it's not right? That is the point of my thread.

      Where do atheists get their morals from!?

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      Quote Originally Posted by ianfort View Post
      So you're saying that if you didn't think you would be punished, you would torture people? What kind of a horrible person are you?!

      And why the hell would you torture the FAMILIES of the criminals? Even if the criminal was the only guilty one, and their family did not know about their misdeeds?

      And you consider yourself morally superior?
      I am talking about very Evil criminals whose families have stood up for them.

      They need to go, and soon!

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      No one has to say its not right, it doesnt have to be declared for it to be wrong or right. It just isn't. Where do religious people get their morals?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Melisa View Post
      Who says it's not right? That is the point of my thread.

      Where do atheists get their morals from!?
      A simple google search would've told you that but since you're too lazy to do that, the people in this thread can enligthen you.

      We do have morals, of course. There's no doubt about it. They most likely are the product of the evolutionary process, in which it was more beneficial for members of species to NOT do harm to others, and as a beneficial trait, passed down generations, in which case morals would be embedded in our instincts. Many atheists hold the view that there is no clear view on what is wrong and what is right (not all ofc), and that it always depends on the situation at hand. . Sometimes it's not so clear what choice would be the least harmful to others. Sometimes there is no winning situation. Our morals are mostly based on what causes others least harm.

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      Quote Originally Posted by gameoverlord345 View Post
      No one has to say its not right, it doesnt have to be declared for it to be wrong or right. It just isn't.
      How do you know it isn't? People used to think burning witches was a right thing to do.

      Where do religious people get their morals?
      Obviously from their scripture, you dummy.

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