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    1. #1
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      It's Buddhist, but the terms could be changed to whatever the mind desires...so doesn't have to be B

      e Buddhist < extension of title. :-)

      All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists.

      This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you—begin to reason about it, and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured.

      The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain it.

      They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas.

      As to performing the six paramitas and vast numbers of similar practices, or gaining merits as countless as the sands of the Ganges, since you are fundamentally complete in every respect, you should not try to supplement that perfection by such meaningless practices. When there is occasion for them, perform them; and, when the occasion is passed, remain quiescent.

      If you are not absolutely convinced that the Mind is the Buddha, and if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way.

      The Mind is the Buddha, nor are there any other Buddhas or any other mind. It is bright and spotless as the void, having no form or appearance whatever. To make use of your minds to think conceptually is to leave the substance and attach yourselves to form. The Ever-Existent Buddha is not a Buddha of form or attachment.

      To practise the six paramitas and a myriad similar practices with the intention of becoming a Buddha thereby is to advance by stages. Only awake to the One Mind, and there is nothing whatsoever to be attained. This is the real Buddha. The Buddha and all sentient beings are One Mind and nothing else.

      - - from The Zen Teaching of Huang Po On the Transmission of Mind Translated by John Blofeld

    2. #2
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mayflow View Post
      All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists.
      This has already departed from and contradicted the teachings Shakyamuni. "One Mind" is a metaphysical statement. It gets worse (and better) from there.

      This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible.
      How do I touch this mind? How do I feel it? What does it smell like? Why isn't it transient like all other things?

      It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you—begin to reason about it, and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured.
      This strikes me as mystical confusion.

      The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain it.
      The Shakyamuni Buddha was a living breathing human being. The last shit he took 45 years after his 'enlightenment' stunk just the same as mine or yours. So it's sort of getting in the right direction but is deifying the Buddha as the Mahayana practitioners seem want to do. This is unfortunate as it takes the same awakening that Shakyamuni had and places it beyond our reach. Mystical mumbo jumbo about it being within our reach anyways does little to alleviate this. We are supposed to reach and stretch and expand (and hence thin out) our views of the world. We just shouldn't lose step with the present moment as we're doing it. With what are we to grasp the mind but mind? How else do we pull the weeds of greed, hatred and delusion from our garden before they sow their seeds? We shouldn't even be seeking the Buddha but the Dhamma which is what Shakyamuni taught in the first place.

      They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifested in the Buddhas.
      Again with the Buddha appearing. Dude died 2500 years ago. It's very true that taking shits and dying is neither lesser for being manifested in a bumble bee nor greater for having been manifested in a Buddha. That is a realization worth spending some concentration on.

      If you are not absolutely convinced that the Mind is the Buddha, and if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way.
      "The Mind" and "The Buddha" are both forms. This is just mystical mumbo-jumbo turning back on itself to breed more mystical mumbo-jumbo.


      Zen seems to be hit or miss for me. Linji is where it's at for me from that school of thought. Of course he was Chan, I don't know if we're distinguishing.

      Quote Originally Posted by Linji from wikipedia
      Followers of the Way, if you want to get the kind of understanding that accords with the Dharma, never be misled by others. Whether you're facing inward or facing outward, whatever you meet up with, just kill it! If you meet a buddha, kill the buddha. If you meet a patriarch, kill the patriarch. If you meet an arhat, kill the arhat. If you meet your parents, kill your parents. If you meet your kinfolk, kill your kinfolk. Then for the first time you will gain emancipation, will not be entangled with things, will pass freely anywhere you wish to go.

      Those who have fulfilled the ten stages of bodhisattva practice are no better than hired field hands; those who have attained the enlightenment of the fifty-first and fifty-second stages are prisoners shackled and bound; arhats and pratyekabuddhas are so much filth in the latrine; bodhi and nirvana are hitching posts for donkeys.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

    3. #3
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      I don't see a differential in even an iota from what Huang po said here from from what Linji said in your quote. "Kill the Buddha" simply means to realize concepts of the mind may be a ton of fun, or for a lot of people a lot of confusion or hurt, but they are still concepts of the mind itself. If you watch a movie, if you have a dream, you can interpret and feel from it and the you that does that is not the concept, it is really you. The Chan came before the Zen, but they both speak a similar message. These guys are not speaking of a body of a human thing that died long ago. They are speaking of mind, the creative source. Sakyamuni is famous for always telling people the finger pointing to the moon is not the moon itself. Finally nice to meet your philosophical side, btw.
      Last edited by Mayflow; 08-10-2011 at 11:22 PM.

    4. #4
      Rational Spiritualist DrunkenArse's Avatar
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      The difference is that Linji said it right. That's why I chose that quote

      Huang Po creates a metaphysical construct, "The Mind". Like ornaments on a christmas tree, Huang Po attaches the properties of "is the Buddha", "is indistinguishable from sentient beings", "is attached to forms", "seeks externally for Buddahood", "looses it", "not yellow", "not green", "not-existant", "not-not-existant" and a bunch of others.

      It's nice masturbation. I guess it's nice to write for somebody that's understood what Linji is saying. Linji just kills all that shit though. In the first paragraph, he offers practical advice that's intelligible to anybody that's facing the problems he's describing. In the second paragraph, he attaches derogatory constructs to already existing constructs. Linji dispenses with the metaphysics and gets to the point. There's so much less to get confused about.
      Previously PhilosopherStoned

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