Thread: Now a topic to really get the mind going...god.

Or maybe the universe just started. There's no reason to think causality makes any sense outside of our universe. Why is 'God just started' any better than 'the universe just started'? What is it about the universe starting that necessitates something with the qualities of God?

because, nothing can't appear outta nothing. you'll just end up with more nothing. a pebble has to be thrown in the lake to cause a ripple of effect. God is supposed to be 'The Almighty" no?

There is no Goddess but Goddess and she is your Goddess.

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

because, nothing can't appear outta nothing.

How does this not include God? Can you please explain that to me *seriousface*?

Originally Posted by Xei

Or maybe the universe just started. There's no reason to think causality makes any sense outside of our universe. Why is 'God just started' any better than 'the universe just started'? What is it about the universe starting that necessitates something with the qualities of God?

And when you take it back that far, is there a difference?

Why do you think nothing can't come out of nothing, as a general principle? Particles pop in and out of existence all the time.

Why do you think God is exempt from not being able to to come out of nothing?

More to the point, why do you think only God is exempt? You could call the universe 'the almighty'.

Originally Posted by Supernova

And when you take it back that far, is there a difference?

Is there a difference between God and non-God? Yes, by the standard meanings of the word 'God'.

supernova - because that wouldn't make sense. "oh somehow i just woke up with all these powers and i can create and destroy what i wish." wtf?
xei- because everything has an origin. If particles pop in and out of existence, that doesn't mean its came outta nowhere. it could have been traveling from dimension to dimension and we just happen to catch it. as Stephen Hawking said, everything in the universe is fixed already, through the laws of nature. So whats the point of a god? and you can call the universe "the almighty" but that really isn't here or there. to my understanding people that believe in god thinks he's infinite. and the universe is not infinite. its still expending as some scientist believe.

and no i dont think there would be a difference if we know the answers to everything. but as humans, learning is really all we can do. And learning is what we all well be doing.

Originally Posted by Xei

More to the point, why do you think only God is exempt? You could call the universe 'the almighty'.

Yesyesyes.

Originally Posted by Xei

Is there a difference between God and non-God? Yes, by the standard meanings of the word 'God'.

Just in terms of creation, what does it matter weather the universe came out of nowhere, or if god came out of nowhere and created the universe? If you want to talk about God influencing events on Earth throughout it's history, that's a whole different area, and yes, it would matter quite a bit then.

'Everything has an origin' is just an assertion on your part. This isn't backed up by science. You're just ignoring counter examples and making up some explanation that you have zero evidence for, just so you can stick to your opinion.

You still didn't explain what it is about God that would make him able to circumvent your arbitrary rule.

And many astrophysicists believe that the universe is in fact infinite. Something expanding doesn't mean it isn't infinite; that isn't how it works. Imagine a graph where the x and y axes go to infinity. You could stretch the graph outwards so that everything becomes two times further apart. This is what physicists mean when they say that the universe is expanding; it's an expansion of the space between objects itself. It isn't the 'edges' of space expanding outwards.

This is really long, but I believe it to be true.

The Real Creation Story | in5d.com | Esoteric, Spiritual and Metaphysical Database

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

supernova - because that wouldn't make sense. "oh somehow i just woke up with all these powers and i can create and destroy what i wish." wtf?

Either you believe that the universe has existed forever, or you believe that somewhere along the line something came out of nothing. There is no other possible option.

Do you believe the universe has existed forever?

Originally Posted by KushyBear

This is really long, but I believe it to be true.

The Real Creation Story | in5d.com | Esoteric, Spiritual and Metaphysical Database

Have you ever read about Time Cube?

Originally Posted by Supernova

Either you believe that the universe has existed forever, or you believe that somewhere along the line something came out of nothing. There is no other possible option.

Do you believe the universe has existed forever?

hahaha you take me for a fool. Of the universe has existed forever. and you really aren't really reading my post. I said its impossible for things to appear outta nowhere. nothing just gives you more nothing.

[edit] lol i mean to say universe HASN'T existed forever.

Originally Posted by Xei

'Everything has an origin' is just an assertion on your part. This isn't backed up by science. You're just ignoring counter examples and making up some explanation that you have zero evidence for, just so you can stick to your opinion.

You still didn't explain what it is about God that would make him able to circumvent your arbitrary rule.

And many astrophysicists believe that the universe is in fact infinite. Something expanding doesn't mean it isn't infinite; that isn't how it works. Imagine a graph where the x and y axes go to infinity. You could stretch the graph outwards so that everything becomes two times further apart. This is what physicists mean when they say that the universe is expanding; it's an expansion of the space between objects itself. It isn't the 'edges' of space expanding outwards.

and of course there's no evidence. its all common sense of thinking.
and i did, the whole point of the topic has to discuss if god was real. its like saying someones tells you to jump off a cliff. what the sense in that?
ahh but if is it infinite, why the need to expend further for more space? wouldn't infinite be...well infinite? So if whatever is true, then someday the universe would collapse on itself (by expending too far) only to be reborn again. THEN waiting for the "big bang" to happen outta nowhere again...sounds like bad science to me. how many universe do you believe exist?

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

Now...I would LOVE to believe in him and I actually do...90%..lol. reason being is the simple...what happened before? what happened before there was a "god"? and what happened before that? It's a list of infinite question because there are no answer to it. Maybe the infinite answers could be answer, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

You admitted it already: there are no answers to it. Because the question is simply a projection by the mind, no matter what answer there is.

When you find God though, the answers are obvious because of His nature.

Originally Posted by Xei

You could call the universe 'the almighty'.

Why so?

I wish when creating topics like these you'd explain which God you're referring to. Or rather which level of awareness you're referring to. Are you talking about a Mythic God, a deistic God? What?

If your thinking of the God I'm thinking of then it had no beginning, no ending, just like the universe.

Originally Posted by really

You admitted it already: there are no answers to it. Because the question is simply a projection by the mind, no matter what answer there is.

When you find God though, the answers are obvious because of His nature.

yessss someones who knows. haha i guess i will find out if i ever meet god.
and other fact to educate, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just transferred. Now if that was true...then everything from reincarnation to ghost are all some doing of quantum mechanic

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

and of course there's no evidence. its all common sense of thinking.

Why do you think common sense should help you understand the origins of the universe?

Where do you get 'common sense' from? You get it from everyday experiences. This doesn't mean it's some kind of universal principle that will apply to realms totally outside of your experience. We know this for a fact: it doesn't apply to the subatomic world, which you never see. If you could see the subatomic world, it would be 'common sense' to you that the universe could appear out of nothing.

and i did, the whole point of the topic has to discuss if god was real. its like saying someones tells you to jump off a cliff. what the sense in that?

No you haven't... you haven't explained why God, and only God, would be the able to come from nothing, or exist forever. And I have already given examples to show otherwise.

ahh but if is it infinite, why the need to expend further for more space? wouldn't infinite be...well infinite?

I don't think you read my post properly. It's not expanding into more space.

Just because something is infinite, doesn't mean it can't change, or expand. I'm a mathematician so I know plenty about this. There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1. But there are also infinite numbers between 0 and 2. In fact the number of numbers are both the same, but in the second case they have expanded.

Originally Posted by really

Why so?

I'm illustrating that the argument is semantic nonsense, by applying the same wordplay but reaching a different conclusion.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I wish when creating topics like these you'd explain which God you're referring to. Or rather which level of awareness you're referring to. Are you talking about a Mythic God, a deistic God? What?

If your thinking of the God I'm thinking of then it had no beginning, no ending, just like the universe.

ain't it obvious? the beginning of all beginning. THE GOD. wow...I thought this forum would have a lot of heavy thinkers..

I met God in a dream once. Also the Dalai Lama and Jesus were in the same dream. God just did stuff. He was funny and could teletransport instantaneously. I asked both the Dalai Lama and Jesus about who they were, because they seemed the same entity to me. They both agreed and said they were just messengers to teach me about God's Love. It wasn't a Lucid Dream, but for me, an Epic Dream.

I don't think you can reach God with simple human logic.

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

ain't it obvious? the beginning of all beginning. THE GOD. wow...I thought this forum would have a lot of heavy thinkers..

Still not following you.

If there was a beginning of all beginning... which there wasn't, then that automatically turns God into something other than infinity which means he wasn't God.

Originally Posted by Xei

Why do you think common sense should help you understand the origins of the universe?

Where do you get 'common sense' from? You get it from everyday experiences. This doesn't mean it's some kind of universal principle that will apply to realms totally outside of your experience. We know this for a fact: it doesn't apply to the subatomic world, which you never see. If you could see the subatomic world, it would be 'common sense' to you that the universe could appear out of nothing.

1st thing i can agree to.


No you haven't... you haven't explained why God, and only God, would be the able to come from nothing, or exist forever. And I have already given examples to show otherwise.

hahaha where in my post did i say god was the only one that can come from nothing? i stated the exact opposite of that.
I don't think you read my post properly. It's not expanding into more space.

Just because something is infinite, doesn't mean it can't change, or expand. I'm a mathematician so I know plenty about this. There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1. But there are also infinite numbers between 0 and 2. In fact the number of numbers are both the same, but in the second case they have expanded.

kudos on being a mathematician, but you seems to misunderstood the meaning of infinite. infinite should already have everything. If you have to add something...it wouldn't be infinite. which is why i say the universe is not infinite. and numbers dont like. im sure you can add a .000-1 to something and it would add up. If people can't find it, doesn't mean its not there.

I'm illustrating that the argument is semantic nonsense, by applying the same wordplay but reaching a different conclusion.

lol isn't the whole point of philosophy nonsense?

[edit] lol still not used to quote thing. my answer are in the quotes xD

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Still not following you.

If there was a beginning of all beginning... which there wasn't, then that automatically turns God into something other than infinity which means he wasn't God.

haha exactly. so god doesn't exist then eh?

Originally Posted by Xei

No you haven't... you haven't explained why God, and only God, would be the able to come from nothing, or exist forever.

LOL This is the OP.

I'm illustrating that the argument is semantic nonsense, by applying the same wordplay but reaching a different conclusion.

But you're just begging the question. Otherwise, what do you think "The Almighty" actually means?

Originally Posted by DreamVail

I met God in a dream once. Also the Dalai Lama and Jesus were in the same dream. God just did stuff. He was funny and could teletransport instantaneously. I asked both the Dalai Lama and Jesus about who they were, because they seemed the same entity to me. They both agreed and said they were just messengers to teach me about God's Love. It wasn't a Lucid Dream, but for me, an Epic Dream.

I don't think you can reach God with simple human logic.

human logic is the only way to understand. and sorry bro i think your just too religious.

Originally Posted by 420Dreamer

hahaha where in my post did i say god was the only one that can come from nothing?

I'm lost. If God isn't the only thing that can come from nothing, we don't have to conclude that God exists. What's the point in what you are saying?

There are plenty of meanings for infinite and you never specified what exactly you meant, so I used the normal definition of infinity.

It sounds like you're just using infinity to mean 'everything'. In which case I'm not sure how you can conclude that universe, or reality, isn't 'everything'.

The point of philosophy is to work out what we can know.

Originally Posted by really

LOL This is the OP.

No it isn't. The OP uses this assumption, it doesn't prove it. Why can't you tell the difference?

Originally Posted by Xei

I'm lost. If God isn't the only thing that can come from nothing, we don't have to conclude that God exists. What's the point in what you are saying?

There are plenty of meanings for infinite and you never specified what exactly you meant, so I used the normal definition of infinity.

It sounds like you're just using infinity to mean 'everything'. In which case I'm not sure how you can conclude that universe, or reality, isn't 'everything'.

The point of philosophy is to work out what we can know.

lol...the point ===> NOTHING CANT APPEAR OUTTA NOTHING SO WHERE DID ALL THIS COME FROM? i hope the bigger words help ya read it. and infinite should mean EVERYTHING....again just makes sense. and hahaha isn't it obvious? because this universe...like i said before isn't infinite...so idk where you got that from..and you wanna know what i think is infinite? the multi-verse! and u know big bang? yeah could easily by cause by two universe bumping into each other.

[edit] and other thing i can agree with u on. point of philosophy is to work out what we can know.