Thread: Atheist group tries to desecrate a Marine memorial.

Let me ask you a few questions, and I want you to think about this for a moment.

Is it possible that from your perspective, you have no issues with religious symbols in the marines, because you are a christian and so the majority of symbols support what you believe?

Is it possible that you are projecting this attitude, that you and the other Christians are comfortable with them, onto the non-christian marines?

Is it possible that the non-christian marines really do find them offensive or in poor taste but because of the strong connection with other marines they are to embarrassed to speak openly about it, and fear what might happen if they openly criticize the majority christian symbols?

It is easy to say there is no religion in the marines and everyone are equal as marines, when you are in the majority and dominate position of the marines. It is no fun if you are the one guy who feels like an outsider and that even though you try your best to be one of the guys you know deep down they don't really accept you.

It is really insensitive to those people to say that their opinions don't matter, and that they have to change them self to fit in with the Christians. Not that I blame you or anything. There is no way to actually know how they feel about the subject unless you specifically make an attempt to ask them about all these subjects. Though since you feel the way you do, I bet you probably never asked them.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

What it sounds like is that you don't understand, which I don't expect you to because you're not a Marine. In the Corps it's not about Religion, it's not about black and white, No one in the Marines is a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Atheist or whatever, you are either a light green or a dark green. We live by motto's like "death before dishonor", "Semper Fidelis" (always faithful) and voice out Semper Fi! to show loyalty and commitment to our battle buddies-in-arms as well the Corps in general. There is an extremely strong dedication that thrives among Marines that you will never understand. Marines don't care about religious affiliations among the troops. I've served along side, people of all kinds of backgrounds, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Asian's, Latino's, Blacks and Whites. None of this stuff matters in the Corps because when shit goes down we will all have each others backs regardless of what they believe or lack there of belief or where they come from. Every Marine possesses this mentality because we're programmed designed and built this way. The Marines isn't a military, It's not like the Army, Navy and Airforce The Marines is an organization and when you're a Marine you're always a Marine and yes I can speak on behalf of the entire Corps because it's MY Corps. Removing the battle cross disrespects the Corps and those within it's ranks, plain and simple. That's why it's not going anywhere.

If it's such a cohesive brotherhood, why not make the memorial more inclusive? I don't see any problem with leaving the cross up, but I think they should include a star of david, star and crescent and an atom, too. And hell, a statue of buddha and a flying spaghetti monster to boot.

I'm not trying to include you in the Fox News indoctrination ritual but I do have to make a quick rant, while we're on the subject. Changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays is NOT a fucking war on christmas, it's simply more inclusive. And I bet if someone mocked up a big ole atom at the marine memorial christians would petition to have it removed. In your language, they would be pissing all over the memorial.

Whenever people try to completely sterilize something of religious atmosphere, the ACLU steps in and protects people's right to practice their faith. The point is not to remove any trace of a religious belief, simply to make sure everyone feels represented. At least that's my viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Alric

Is it possible that from your perspective, you have no issues with religious symbols in the marines, because you are a christian and so the majority of symbols support what you believe?

No.

Originally Posted by Alric

Is it possible that you are projecting this attitude, that you and the other Christians are comfortable with them, onto the non-christian marines?

No.

Originally Posted by Alric

Is it possible that the non-christian marines really do find them offensive or in poor taste but because of the strong connection with other marines they are to embarrassed to speak openly about it, and fear what might happen if they openly criticize the majority christian symbols?

I'm sure there may be some Marines that have their own personal concerns about Christian crosses in the same sense that I have my own concerns about a many of things not limited to religious symbols. However, all those concerns are irrelevant in the Corps. Marines have the ability to voice their concerns to OSCAR about any particular issue that they deem is so significant it becomes an adherence to their ability to perform as soldiers. These significant concerns and issues can be voiced in the strictest of confidentiality.

Furthermore, it's extremely rare that Marines voice any personal concerns. This has nothing to do with being afraid of what may happen but it has everything to do with the kind of discipline we engage in.

Originally Posted by Alric

It is easy to say there is no religion in the marines and everyone are equal as marines, when you are in the majority and dominate position of the marines. It is no fun if you are the one guy who feels like an outsider and that even though you try your best to be one of the guys you know deep down they don't really accept you.

That's speculation because in all actuality you don't know.

Originally Posted by Alric

It is really insensitive to those people to say that their opinions don't matter, and that they have to change them self to fit in with the Christians Marines.

Fixed!

I don't find this insensitive at all. Number 1, no one is forced into the armed forces. The moment a recruit steps off the bus to start their basic training, their opinion of the outside world doesn't matter and there will be a nice D.I. that will make sure you know this. Secondly, most who join the Marines are looking to a part of a group that saves lives and in turn they want their lives to be dictated by a certain code that only the Marines can provide.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

If it's such a cohesive brotherhood, why not make the memorial more inclusive? I don't see any problem with leaving the cross up, but I think they should include a star of david, star and crescent and an atom, too. And hell, a statue of buddha and a flying spaghetti monster to boot.

I've seen atomic symbols around Camp Pen, it usually means something that is bad for your health like hazardous radiation or some kind of chemical waste. :p Yea, it's bad for you.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I'm not trying to include you in the Fox News indoctrination ritual but I do have to make a quick rant, while we're on the subject. Changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays is NOT a fucking war on christmas, it's simply more inclusive.

I myself like a day set aside to give and receive gifts, buy stuff on 70% mark down prices, eat a lot of good food and spend time with family, I could care less what it's called.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

And I bet if someone mocked up a big ole atom at the marine memorial christians would petition to have it removed. In your language, they would be pissing all over the memorial.

I wouldn't have a problem with it but I don't think a huge atomic symbol on top of the Hill is a wise choice. It would probably deter people away, associating the possibility that the hill could be hazardous or radioactive. I know what you were getting at, but unlike you, I believe symbols can have more than one meaning.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

but unlike you, I believe symbols can have more than one meaning.

Of course they can



But I can't exactly get away with tagging a swastika and claim I'm just trying to symbolize the infinity of time, now can I? Symbols are about communication, as you just said. Using a symbol with one meaning and claiming it means something else makes you a bad communicator.

But I don't think anyone would mistake something like this to mean hazardous material

Random question. If "no one in the Marines is a Christian, etc.," why use the most blatant Christian symbol out there? Hell make an anchor and globe out of logs or something.

Eagle, globe and anchor.

My browser initially failed to load this first time. Perhaps it was trying to save me from this thread?

It's not as if I had high expectations but damn.

Use Chrome

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

By the way, "In God We Trust" needs to be taken off coins. It is a clear violation of the First Amendment.

I've been meaning to cross the word God off all my money, thanks for reminding me.

In money we trust

money = god

therefore it is correct

That's silly

No you're silly, you silly-buns

What the hell is with all the Xei-bashing in this thread? He makes a really good point about the ridiculous hypocrisy and sensationalism of Ne-Yo's post, and he is at first ignored and then later ridiculed for no clear reason other than people don't understand him?

I don't understand why you started this thread, Ne-Yo, if you are just going to ignore Xei pointing out a big flaw in your reasoning.

Originally Posted by mooseantlers

Why does Xei say stupid shit?

Why does no-one get it when Xei is trying to make a point?!?

Xei bashing wtf?

It's just ne-yo being ne-yo. And Xei being xei. And I'm being me and you're being you and CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELEBRATE GOOD TIMES C'MON!

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

What the hell is with all the Xei-bashing in this thread?

I don't really think there was 'Xei bashing', moose just didn't get it at first, and Ne-Yo has a habit of not responding to messages that he knows have a point...

On a totally unrelated (but somehow suitable) note, Levon Helms died

Who is he?

I called a truths with Xei in this very thread, I don't know why you got your panties all up in a bunch for.

talking to you Omnis Dei.

Edit: I mean Pensive

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Who is he?

Also, Helms -> Helm. I always fuck up his name.

You. Are. Old.

That's already old by my age group's standards. However that doesn't make it not good. That's the band that Dylan did some of his best work with.

Oh duh, that's The Band. I don't why that didn't register.

Why try and jack my thread PS? that's not cool man.

Sorry Ne-Yo. I read the OP and the first page of posts and didn't figure there was a thread still going on. Did I miss something?