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    Thread: The Christians in Mid-east

    1. #26
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      The native Americans (my ancestors) were not living under totalitarian rule by a genocidal terrorist. They were not liberated. Do you see the huge difference there?

      Are you at all happy about any of the freedoms the Iraqis gained from the liberation? Do you have even the first thing positive to say about it?

      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

    2. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      The native Americans (my ancestors) were not living under totalitarian rule by a genocidal terrorist. They were not liberated. Do you see the huge difference there?

      Are you at all happy about any of the freedoms the Iraqis gained from the liberation? Do you have even the first thing positive to say about it?

      That's even worse. You lost the justification of "liberation", "for freedom". It became a pure loot, rob, plunder and occupying. Shamless people like you still boast on "Freedom", and show picture of some puppets' action. But even puppet tell the truth that US bring them - A failed war - Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. That's what an US asset politician in Iraq says.

      How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq
      By Ayad Allawi, Published: August 31



      “More than eight years after Saddam Hussein’s regime was overthrown, basic services are in a woeful state: Most of the country has only a few hours of electricity a day. Blackouts were increasingly common this summer.

      “Oil exports, still Iraq’s only source of income, are barely more than they were when Hussein was toppled. The government has squandered the boon of high oil prices and failed to create real and sustainable job growth. Iraq’s economy has become an ever more dysfunctional mix of cronyism and mismanagement, with high unemployment and endemic corruption.
      “Transparency International ranks Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. The promise of improved security has been empty, with sectarianism on the rise.”

      False Promises

      Allawi also cites the false promises of democracy:

      “Despite failing to win the most seats in last year’s elections, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki clung to power through a combination of Iranian support and U.S. compliance. He now shows an alarming disregard for democratic principles and the rule of law.

      “Vital independent institutions such as the election commission, the transparency commission and Iraq’s central bank have been ordered to report directly to the office of the prime minister. Meanwhile, Maliki refuses to appoint consensus candidates as defense and interior ministers, as per last year’s power-sharing agreement.

      “The government is using blatant dictatorial tactics and intimidation to quell opposition, ignoring the most basic human rights. Human Rights Watch reported in February on secret torture prisons under Maliki’s authority.

      “In June, it exposed the government’s use of hired thugs to beat, stab and even sexually assault peaceful demonstrators in Baghdad who were complaining about corruption and poor services. These horrors are reminiscent of autocratic responses to demonstrations by failing regimes elsewhere in the region, and a far cry from the freedom and democracy promised in the new Iraq.

      “Is this really what the United States sacrificed more than 4,000 young men and women, and hundreds of billions of dollars, to build? The trend of failure is becoming irreversible.”
      So what is going on here? How can the U.S. media hail Petraeus’s “successful surge” and write about “victory at last” in Iraq when it appears that the Bush-Cheney-neocon intervention has created what amounts to a failed state in Iraq?


      How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq - The Washington Post

    3. #28
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      Congratulations on finding some bullshit propaganda. Unfortunately for you, the article discusses financial struggles and power outages plus some absolutely ridiculous claims. The mass killing of innocent people by the Iraqi government is over. People aren't terrified of being tortured to death for breathing the wrong way. The people DO have the ultimate authority over their government because they vote on their leaders. The government is no longer a dictatorship.

      I think I said earlier that I no longer believe we should have gone through with all of the madness of liberating a weak population that doesn't want freedom bad enough overall, but I still oppose the false arguments against it, and I do recognize the good that exists in the picture. You have yet to acknowledge even one detail of that. Why??? I flat out asked you if you see any good in the picture. You dodged the question. So I will ask you the question again. Do you have anything positive to say about the freedoms the Iraqi people have gained as a result of the overthrow of the Hussein regime and the creation of a democratic government? Anything at all? Anything? Don't dodge this time.
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      The war in Iraq according to JustForeignPolicy.org, claims 1.455.590 victims as of January 2011, I would be putting this into the category of genocide personally.

      Crimes against Humanity: The Children of Iraq, Killed and Maimed Twice | Global Research

      Those that told us it was a good idea to start a war in Iraq, (people like the above poster) why would we trust or give them any credibility now? Their judgement after the fact, after they have change their view on it, is irrelevant. They obviously don't have a clue what is going on, and that's why they couldn't understand why invading Iraq was a bad idea in the first place. They were easily deceived simply trusting what they assumed to be correct.

      Many of us knew and said from the start that the information to go into this war was not correct. People like myself and others, who you should be listening to because we have a track record of consistency in our views and can see past the lies before people die, not after.
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    5. #30
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      Those are some interesting insults from somebody who said in another post that matter is not material. We have had a policy against targeting civilians the entire time, though a few rogue soldiers have probably gone against orders. The insurgents have not had that policy. Our "victims" have generally been insurgent terrorists. Go get yourself a tissue over that. My former support for the Iraq War was based on a great deal of reasoning, and it is still posted on this site if you would like to take the time to read some of it before you make another asinine statement.
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    6. #31
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      They had 1 1/2 million insurgent terrorists? Wow!

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      I don't trust that biased source for two seconds, but that doesn't mean it's automatically incorrect. I think part of the idea involved in the Iraq War was to set up a fly trap for terrorists. Considering the fact that they came to Iraq from many countries to fight our military, there might have been that many. Do you think we would have targeted that many civilians? What would the goal in that have been? Their new government was on our side, so that would be pretty bizarre and irrational. What do you think?
      Last edited by Universal Mind; 02-18-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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      Well we have to think about all the deaths do to depleted uranium left purposefully since the first gulf war as well as all the new depleted uranium that was left this past war. That has been the source of many many civilian deaths. The depleted Uranium was left just for that purpose. What other purpose would there be for littering uranium all over the country? Why even bring uranium there? Maybe as an experiment? "We need to get rid of this uranium. Let's see what happens if we leave it all laying around Iraq."

    9. #34
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      I don't know why the military would want to leave masses of civilians dead during the war or after it. The goal was to give them a new government and preserve it.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      Those are some interesting insults from somebody who said in another post that matter is not material. We have had a policy against targeting civilians the entire time, though a few rogue soldiers have probably gone against orders. The insurgents have not had that policy. Our "victims" have generally been insurgent terrorists. Go get yourself a tissue over that. My former support for the Iraq War was based on a great deal of reasoning, and it is still posted on this site if you would like to take the time to read some of it before you make another asinine statement.
      Over 1 million 'insurgent terrorist' half of which include children under 6? Get real.....All the innocent children killed for one thing can't be considered insurgent terrorist.
      And yeah I will get myself a tissue over all the families of the children killed and how their arms and things were blown off by the thousands, because you couldn't reason or think properly and supported a mistake that cost thousands of lives for no other reason than the false logic made up by those wanting to profit from the bloodshed. We can only hope that they haven't died in vain and it could contribute to getting you some sense or humanity? Maybe you should watch some actual footage of the war, or what little footage there is of it, that shows what I'm talking about.

      You should consider life especially precious since you are an atheist. But for some reason my value of human life takes priority here over yours apparently.

      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      I don't know why the military would want to leave masses of civilians dead during the war or after it. The goal was to give them a new government and preserve it.
      Well there is mass graves and all those deaths were no overnight. The 'democracy' goal was after they invaded and were there for a long time. Ofcourse when you make a country unstable you can't just leave it in chaos. What was the goal before they invaded? Weapons of mass destruction? See how any morality reasoned in the face of no credibility makes you look especially foolish at this time.

      Also it's a bit of a co-incidence how the heroin supply had dried up in the US at that time, and suddenly there is a war with all these US troops guarding the poppy fields, and the heroin supply comes back in. Would the drug war also be part of your 'democracy' ideal to give US drug smugglers a fair chance?

      oh wait drug trafficking/smuggling is illegal.....So you can't use that as an excuse.
      Last edited by anderj101; 05-07-2013 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Merged

    11. #36
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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      Over 1 million 'insurgent terrorist' half of which include children under 6? Get real.....All the innocent children killed for one thing can't be considered insurgent terrorist.
      And yeah I will get myself a tissue over all the families of the children killed and how their arms and things were blown off by the thousands, because you couldn't reason or think properly and supported a mistake that cost thousands of lives for no other reason than the false logic made up by those wanting to profit from the bloodshed. We can only hope that they haven't died in vain and it could contribute to getting you some sense or humanity? Maybe you should watch some actual footage of the war, or what little footage there is of it, that shows what I'm talking about.

      You should consider life especially precious since you are an atheist. But for some reason my value of human life takes priority here over yours apparently.
      You self-righteous little dipshit, you don't strike me as the king of compassion. This is not about compassion for you. It is about excuses to feel superior, so get off the high horse. You're just another prick on the internet.

      Insurgent terrorists have been targeting innocents. We have not, except in maybe a few cases of disobeyed orders. Explain in plain English why the U.S. government would want to kill more than 500,000 children under the age of 6 while trying to create and maintain a democracy for them. Explain it. The mass starvation was deliberately caused by Hussein.

      No matter how the war was handled, the reasons for it were very understandable, though I see the failures and no longer think it was a good idea. Here are some facts.

      1. The Hussein regime was an Islamofascist terrorist government that used WMD's in a terrorist attack on the Kurds and that trained and funded Islamofascist terrorist groups.
      2. The Hussein regime took over Kuwait, and we liberated Kuwait. Instead of overthrowing the Hussein regime then, we formed a ceasefire. The Hussein regime violated the ceasefire on terrorist grounds for 12 years.
      3. After successful missions to stop the Hussein regime from developing WMD's, we received information from our CIA and six foreign governments that the Hussein regime was in possession of WMD's.
      4. The Hussein regime was a genocidal dictatorship that was guilty of a long list of human rights abuses against the people of Iraq.
      5. It was in U.S. interest to spread democracy in the Middle East to change the backward cultural and educational landscape.

      Continuing the 1991 war on those grounds was understandable. Supporting it did not involve a lack of reasoning ability. It involved lacking foresight of the weaknesses of the Iraqi population. I can't believe we are debating this after I told you that I no longer think continuing the war was the right path. You should be more open-minded and compassionate.


      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      Well there is mass graves and all those deaths were no overnight. The 'democracy' goal was after they invaded and were there for a long time. Ofcourse when you make a country unstable you can't just leave it in chaos. What was the goal before they invaded? Weapons of mass destruction? See how any morality reasoned in the face of no credibility makes you look especially foolish at this time.

      Also it's a bit of a co-incidence how the heroin supply had dried up in the US at that time, and suddenly there is a war with all these US troops guarding the poppy fields, and the heroin supply comes back in. Would the drug war also be part of your 'democracy' ideal to give US drug smugglers a fair chance?

      oh wait drug trafficking/smuggling is illegal.....So you can't use that as an excuse.
      No, the democracy goal was part of the mission. I remember it. I was an adult when the invasion happened. Were you? Are you now? If you think the war was a heroin conspiracy, you are the first I have heard suggest it. The heroin suppy was alive and well in 2003. The war on drugs is insane and corrupt, but you don't have good evidence that the war in Iraq was fought on behalf of heroin dealers. The fact that the war was an advantage for heroin dealers does not prove that creating the advantage was the primary mission of the war.

      I wonder why people don't notice the obvious and conclude that the war in Iraq was about sand. Did you know that Biloxi, Mississippi Beach has the largest amount of shipped in sand of any beach in the world? Did you know that Mississippi's last governor used to be the head of the Republican National Committee? Florida has a great deal of shipped in sand at its resort towns, and George W. Bush's brother used to be the governor of Florida. Hmmm....
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      It is about compassion because I don't like needless war. The drug part of it is only one aspect not the full story. The Hussein regime was created not by Sadam but by his links to resources in the US which allowed him to build up his power structure! What does that tell you about the supposed Nobel goal of democracy? The very people who put Hussein out of power were the ones to put him in power in the first place and were the first one to declare war and kill an entire population of that country when it suited them. You are completely delusional.

      Citizens of Iraq were willing to give everything over to the US. Intelligence information, resources, anything the US could shamefully demand they were willing to co-operate. They were willing to have their entire country and wealth gutted to prevent a war, there had no weapons of mass destruction, that was a lie. the US badly wanted the conflict to go ahead, just like the want to do Iran next. Osama through his CIA links cooperated in organizing the hijacking, and elements within the united states protected the operation to make sure 911 would go ahead as an excuse for the war. Larry insured the towers and put himself and his family out of harms way on the day so he could profit billions from the event.

      You really have no idea what is going on.

    13. #38
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      We killed an entire population? Oh, all right. Try answering my question about that when you get around to it. I guess we have gone through so much trouble to build and preserve a democracy for a ghost country.

      The Hussein regime was an ally gone bad. We used them to take on Iran, and the whole thing blew up on us. I never thought we should have pulled such a stunt.

      The rest of what you are saying is just bizarre conspiracy insanity that you need to back up with something. This is like discussing Christianity with a Charismatic.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      We killed an entire population? Oh, all right. Try answering my question about that when you get around to it. I guess we have gone through so much trouble to build and preserve a democracy for a ghost country.

      The Hussein regime was an ally gone bad. We used them to take on Iran, and the whole thing blew up on us. I never thought we should have pulled such a stunt.

      The rest of what you are saying is just bizarre conspiracy insanity that you need to back up with something. This is like discussing Christianity with a Charismatic.
      I admit America has some freedoms and was built on a very intelligent constitution that was designed to protect people from tyranny. But that is only as good as peoples desire to use that to defend themselves. Many people don't understand how to claim their rights which is unfortunate. Osama's CIA links are verifiable. Larry did insure the towers before they were brought down, did take a day off work that day, as well as his family. That's all fact which you can easily verify yourself. The hussein regime was empowered by US not just an ally. The reason for war is not justifiable or clear under your precept. If democracy in the country was the goal, they should have set up a democracy instead of the hussein regime.

      There is currently a lot of propaganda floating around about Iran now too, because that's the next target on the list to manipulate and use. If you think you are being told the full story by CNN than you are mislead. CNN takes blood money from middle eastern regimes that are it's customers as uncovered by Amber Lyon. You look at these kinds of news institutions and you believe that they are not bias and then you take their propaganda and repeat it to others, because you can't discern the other side of the story that is not being broadcast.
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      Last edited by hathor28; 02-20-2013 at 12:44 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      I admit America has some freedoms and was built on a very intelligent constitution that was designed to protect people from tyranny. But that is only as good as peoples desire to use that to defend themselves. Many people don't understand how to claim their rights which is unfortunate. Osama's CIA links are verifiable. Larry did insure the towers before they were brought down, did take a day off work that day, as well as his family. That's all fact which you can easily verify yourself. The hussein regime was empowered by US not just an ally. The reason for war is not justifiable or clear under your precept. If democracy in the country was the goal, they should have set up a democracy instead of the hussein regime.

      There is currently a lot of propaganda floating around about Iran now too, because that's the next target on the list to manipulate and use. If you think you are being told the full story by CNN than you are mislead. CNN takes blood money from middle eastern regimes that are it's customers as uncovered by Amber Lyon. You look at these kinds of news institutions and you believe that they are not bias and then you take their propaganda and repeat it to others, because you can't discern the other side of the story that is not being broadcast.
      Osama's CIA link is that he was a high ranking member of the Mujahideen, the Afghan group the CIA trained to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. We did not know that they would evolve into Al Qaeda and attack us like the ungrateful scum that they are. Who is Larry?

      We tend to empower our allies. I'm sure you understand why that would seem like a reasonable policy. Setting up a democracy would have been much more difficult than just putting Hussein in power. You know what we have been through over the past decade in trying to maintain a democracy in Iraq.

      I don't get my news from any one news organization. I get it from lots of them. Where do you get your news?
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      Osama's CIA link is that he was a high ranking member of the Mujahideen, the Afghan group the CIA trained to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. We did not know that they would evolve into Al Qaeda and attack us like the ungrateful scum that they are. Who is Larry?

      We tend to empower our allies. I'm sure you understand why that would seem like a reasonable policy. Setting up a democracy would have been much more difficult than just putting Hussein in power. You know what we have been through over the past decade in trying to maintain a democracy in Iraq.

      I don't get my news from any one news organization. I get it from lots of them. Where do you get your news?
      It would have being obvious to high level intelligence that Osama was a wealthy resourceful individual with links to potential terrorist activity. And not just a cavemen with a gun like the propaganda wanted to depict. That's why they used him and gave him a identity known as Tim Osman. They had drills and operations with his face on it also, ofcourse they knew about it. And you forgot to mention his touring of US bases for weapons instructions and tutorials lol. It's not like they were not involved with him from the beginning.

      Larry A. Silverstein was the owner of the twin towers. They did have an owner....they were not just randomly built structures from robots of a parallel universe (your suggestion for the creation of matter in the other thread).

      The security of Americas airspace is well capable of defending the towers if that is the goal and order desired. Unfortunately the order was to stand down and let the planes hit the building. Silverstein had not long insured it from that type of attack merely days before. What a lucky fellow hey? And also lucky out of all the days he choose the day of attack, to take a break from work. And lucky that his entire family also stayed away from working at the towers that day. So he escaped without harm and profited a great deal all by chance without his knowledge yeah?

      Lets just call everything a co-incidence and the spaghetti monster can explain most of those anomalies.

      In regards to the Hussein regime is it wise to support and foster a dictatorship if your goal is democracy? If they did nothing to put Hussein in power it would not have been nearly as difficult to change it back again. Obviously they are not that incompetent, and the motive was to create that instability all along to control the region.

      You sound like you get your news from CNN. I get my news from the internet that is connected to thousands of impartial proper journalist that have the ability to report to me a overall balanced view. Without worrying about private, corporate, and governmental funding distorting what information gets through.
      Last edited by knight31; 02-20-2013 at 10:05 AM.

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      Yes, the CIA saw Bin Laden as a great leader and trained the Hell out of him. That does not prove that 9/11 was forseeable during the Cold War.

      My robot analogy was satire. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.

      So the owner of a building that got destroyed had recently started an insurance policy, and he and his family weren't there during the attacks. Wow, let's just go ahead and lock Bush up on that alone. Are you telling me that what were at one time the two tallest buildings in the world were not insured at all until right before 9/11 and never had been?
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      The last few days I didn't realize anything, let alone your satire, I was completely loopy.

      The towers probably were insured in some way all along. On the 23rd July, 2001 was suppose to be some kind of insurance deal was made. He wanted 7.2 billion out of it but he is unlikely to get the full amount anyway.

      Osama must have used his resources his was given and became a traitor.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      Yes, the CIA saw Bin Laden as a great leader and trained the Hell out of him. That does not prove that 9/11 was forseeable during the Cold War.

      My robot analogy was satire. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.

      So the owner of a building that got destroyed had recently started an insurance policy, and he and his family weren't there during the attacks. Wow, let's just go ahead and lock Bush up on that alone. Are you telling me that what were at one time the two tallest buildings in the world were not insured at all until right before 9/11 and never had been?
      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      The last few days I didn't realize anything, let alone your satire, I was completely loopy.

      The towers probably were insured in some way all along. On the 23rd July, 2001 was suppose to be some kind of insurance deal was made. He wanted 7.2 billion out of it but he is unlikely to get the full amount anyway.

      Osama must have used his resources his was given and became a traitor.
      I recommend these videos if you want more answers.
      CIA Insider Tells 911 truth. Time to re-examine your World-view, America! - YouTube

      9/11 EXPOSED, Researched facts and analysis- Full Documentary.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFx1WaK54Vo
      Last edited by hathor28; 02-21-2013 at 01:59 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      Yes, the CIA saw Bin Laden as a great leader and trained the Hell out of him. That does not prove that 9/11 was forseeable during the Cold War.

      My robot analogy was satire. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.

      So the owner of a building that got destroyed had recently started an insurance policy, and he and his family weren't there during the attacks. Wow, let's just go ahead and lock Bush up on that alone. Are you telling me that what were at one time the two tallest buildings in the world were not insured at all until right before 9/11 and never had been?
      WTC 1 and 2 were hot potatoes in real estate market. The insulator was asbestoes that hurt health and was banned to be used in construction. The problem was to tear down the buildings cost too much, (as much as to build a new one) So they were chosen to be pulled down in a "terror attack". They let the insurance company to pay it. (Finally, it's the ordinary people paid it because they have to pay more fee to the insurance company)Silverstein took over the WTC 1 and 2 in July, two months later 911 took place, what an efficiency.

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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      You sound like you get your news from CNN. I get my news from the internet that is connected to thousands of impartial proper journalist that have the ability to report to me a overall balanced view. Without worrying about private, corporate, and governmental funding distorting what information gets through.
      There are far easier ways to just come out and say "infowars" and "prisonplanet," you know.
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      Quote Originally Posted by katsung47 View Post
      WTC 1 and 2 were hot potatoes in real estate market. The insulator was asbestoes that hurt health and was banned to be used in construction. The problem was to tear down the buildings cost too much, (as much as to build a new one) So they were chosen to be pulled down in a "terror attack". They let the insurance company to pay it. (Finally, it's the ordinary people paid it because they have to pay more fee to the insurance company)Silverstein took over the WTC 1 and 2 in July, two months later 911 took place, what an efficiency.
      But you don't know what the queers are doing to the soil.
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      Syrian rebels burn and plunder religious sites – Human Rights Watch.

      RT.com
      23 January, 2013, 19:49

      Syrian rebels have looted and burned minority religious sites in Northern Syria, US-based Human Rights Watch says. The attacks highlight the increasingly sectarian nature of the conflict as the bloodshed continues unabated.

      The three incidents took place in November and December of last year in religiously mixed areas.

      Rebels looted two Christian churches in separate villages in the relatively peaceful western governorate of Latakia, local witnesses told the rights watchdog.

    25. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      But you don't know what the queers are doing to the soil.

      I like you, Stuart...you're not like the other people, here...
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