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    Thread: Is the Abrahamic God really Satan?

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      Is the Abrahamic God really Satan?

      If I were Satan, and I wanted to lead as many souls astray as possible, I would claim to be a mighty, omnipotent and unconditionally loving God. I would tell my people there's only one way, and it's mine, and all other ways are false. I would tell people they needed to convert everyone to worship me so they could save their souls. I would have them torture each other in an aim of converting them all to my religion. My religion would publicly preach love and forgiveness while in practice it would cultivate hate and prejudice.

      All I'm saying is if I were Satan, all these modern totalitarian religions claiming to hate me would be working exactly as I designed them to.
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      Well too bad, you don't always get what you want.

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      You're right I wanted someone with an IQ above 35 to respond to this thread.
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      I don't think it's the concept or figure of a monotheistic deity that emerges as 'evil' under close scrutiny as religious organisations. I believe on the face of it all religion has come into being as a way of rationalising and reassuring oneself about the afterlife, possibly the oldest and most maddening fear we have is our fear of our own mortality. 'It's alright, I'm going to paradise when I die. unfortunately that sort of message is very powerful if you want to start manipulating entire populations towards your own political goals as we've seen in history with the Roman catholic church and Islamic jihadism.

      So God is not Satan, it is human nature to corrupt and be corrupted*

      *I'm an agnostic.
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      Under the assumption that there is Satan, we could also assume there is God

      I believe that God would not allow Satan to impersonate him

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      Quote Originally Posted by kurlie View Post
      Under the assumption that there is Satan, we could also assume there is God
      Why would we assume that? What's your line of reasoning?
      I believe that God would not allow Satan to impersonate him
      Again, not necessarily. Some religions like gnosticism are built around the idea of a malevolent entity deceiving mankind.
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      Satan exists just as much as God.

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      Then, and this is the kicker, every few hundred years or so I'd tell some random jack ass that everyone worshiping me is doing it wrong and he needs to spread the untainted version of my law. I'd bury golden plates in the ground and all sorts of shit to legitimize this new prophet, and start the whole mess over again.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ctharlhie View Post
      Why would we assume that? What's your line of reasoning?
      All 3 abrahamic religions include a God who is has power over Satan. I dont know about Judaism or Christianity, but in Islam, it is specifically stated that Satan cannot impersonate God or the prophets

      Quote Originally Posted by Ctharlhie View Post
      Again, not necessarily. Some religions like gnosticism are built around the idea of a malevolent entity deceiving mankind.
      Wouldnt that mean we're screwed regardless of who we worship?

      FYI I am religious, but I try to keep an open mind

      Also the Abrahamic religions revolve mostly revolve around generally good concepts (dont kill/steal etc.), so even if Satan says he is God, to keep up the act he would have to act like god. This would be much more possible if we were questioning pagan gods, or any god that requires sacrifices or actually leads souls astray
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      Quote Originally Posted by kurlie View Post
      All 3 abrahamic religions include a God who is has power over Satan. I dont know about Judaism or Christianity, but in Islam, it is specifically stated that Satan cannot impersonate God or the prophets
      That's exactly what I would say if I were Satan

      Wouldnt that mean we're screwed regardless of who we worship?
      No. Gnostics practiced the path as laid out by Christ to be Christ-like rather than just blind followers of God. The idea behind Gnosticism, much like Hinduism and Buddhism, is to transcend the need to worship a deity at all but to find the deity inside yourself.

      FYI I am religious, but I try to keep an open mind

      Also the Abrahamic religions revolve mostly revolve around generally good concepts (dont kill/steal etc.), so even if Satan says he is God, to keep up the act he would have to act like god. This would be much more possible if we were questioning pagan gods, or any god that requires sacrifices or actually leads souls astray
      The Abrahamic God does require sacrifice. People also kill and steal in the name of God. The killed heretics and heathens and stole their land for God. They carried out far more evil, and broke far more of God's Laws in his name than without it. The olnly thing that changed when Abrahamic Religions hit the board was a false sense of entitlement to do these things. They were told they were the holy representatives of a good God, giving them greater license for evil. It's a good plan for a malevolent deity if you ask me.
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      As a side note, Gnosticism is pretty awesome.
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      wait a second. The only purpose this conceptual "Satan" serves in structured religion is to oppose another conceptual "God", so if "Satan" is opposing "God" by being "God" doesn't that mean that "God" is a concept that is in itself contradictory? so if God is God and Satan is God then wouldn't "Satan" just be another term for "God"? Or maybe I misunderstand.
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      There's two ways I could answer that.

      The first answer is yes, Satan is God, and God is a total evil fuck.

      The second answer is that Satan wrote all the holy books posing as God, but God didn't because God understands dogmas lead more souls astray than forward.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      You're right I wanted someone with an IQ above 35 to respond to this thread.
      Woulda given it an honest shot had someone with one over 25 started it.

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      It's an unlikely situation, and here's why:

      Satan only exists as a being in Christian holy writings, and, if Satan (as the Bible describes) exists, we can assume Christian doctrinal writings to be true. It's a reasonable assumption, then, that God, a benevolent, almighty deity, would NOT let everybody on the Earth be deceived into believing in Satan and give nobody on Earth a chance at a relationship with Him.

      Or, if you mean a different concept of Satan, then it doesn't really relate to the Christian religion much. You can talk about malevolent deities and all, but it's not how the Christian God is described.

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      But my point is if I were Satan, I would make christianity exactly the way it is, and describe myself as a benevolent diety, not a malevolent one. Why on earth would I get people to worship me by saying "I'm a douchebag?" I'd want my worshipers to feel like they're on the good side and like they're legitimately helping people by torturing and slaughtering them. If they knew they were following a corrupt diety, they'd be more open to other opinions and wouldn't feel so sure that they were right about everything. They may even look actively for some sort of good god to fight me. I can't have that, I would want everything to already think they're on the good side, no matter what evil shit they end up doing for me.

      And if I were a good god, I'd of course give people a chance at a relationship with me, but there wouldn't be one specific path to find that relationship. No holy book from my mouth would tell people they found the one way, and every other way is corrupt. If I were God I'd let everyone follow me in their own way, and I wouldn't care how they did it or what they labeled me so long as they celebrated the diverse ways to find me rather than try to convert each other.

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      Ah, you're a fan of the idea of religious pluralism. That's logically flawed, as different religions make irreconcilably clashing claims. Different creation models, different salvation plans, different codes of conduct. No religion is the same, and they all make certain truth claims about the reality of the universe which cannot be ignored. There can only be one true religion, or there can be none at all.

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      Quote Originally Posted by koopa184 View Post
      Ah, you're a fan of the idea of religious pluralism. That's logically flawed, as different religions make irreconcilably clashing claims. Different creation models, different salvation plans, different codes of conduct. No religion is the same, and they all make certain truth claims about the reality of the universe which cannot be ignored. There can only be one true religion, or there can be none at all.
      Please excuse my crassness but what a load of festering bullshit. Each and every religion has, at the very least, a sect which believes in the universal path toward peace and self-liberation. The Christians have the Gnostics, the Muslims have Sufism, Hindus and Buddhists also have tons and tons of various followings which are usually regard each other neutrally until the followers decide that they have the one true way. The only thing that separates religion is the arrogance to assume there's only one way. They may vary in their details but those details are horizontal. When regarding the vertical, spiritual growth, they all lead to the same place.
      Last edited by Omnis Dei; 07-08-2012 at 07:54 PM.

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      And furthermore, individual religions are FULL of contradictions. Practically every word of the bible is contradicted by something else in the bible. Contradictions do not mean various religions cannot be reconciled, or else no one would be able to call themselves Christian to begin with. The fact is you can reconcile contradictions, Christians do it all the time, usually by picking and choosing or claiming different contexts result in what appears to be contradictory but isn't. The same is true of different religions, a lot of their contradictions are arbitrary but the core of every religion is a same fucking thing. Only the details change.

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      God is schizophrenic.

      Satan is his first alterego.

      Omnis is his second one.
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      His second alter ego has a massive erection

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      If satan was god than why did satan go through the trouble of creating mankind and setting up an elaborate plan to convince them he was god. Maybe he just created mankind to win a bet, to prove to the other gods that its possible to decieve an entire race.
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      I'm not necessarily saying satan is the creator god, just that when abrahamic dogmatists worship God they're really worshiping Satan.

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      The great thing is your argument is absolutely flawless. There is no way to prove it wrong

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      Quote Originally Posted by Omnis Dei View Post
      I'm not necessarily saying satan is the creator god, just that when abrahamic dogmatists worship God they're really worshiping Satan.
      They are worshipping an idea.
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