Thread: 60 Days in Jail Plus a $12,000 Fine for Home Bible Study

Maybe now the bible thumpers will join with all the other religions that have been persecuted for centuries.

Or maybe they'll just play the victim and act like Christians are the only people in the history of the world that have ever been persecuted.

Leave it to conservative nutjobs to make sure that "OBAMA'S A DICTATOR" makes its way into the video somehow.

Honestly - when the anchor started off by complaining about Obama being a dictator, he left his integrity behind.
That is an idiotic propaganda claim, and this video is all contributing to the idiotic conservative propaganda that tries to illustrate the U.S. Government as a power hungry monster that LIVES to stomp on the rights of the poor, sickly Christians who don't deserve this kind of mistreatment.
Well, it's a joke people.

This man was charged with failing to uphold building codes... The same thing would have happened to anyone who tried to build an arcade hall in their back yard.. These are not laws regarding the establishment of religion. These are laws regarding the establishment of ANYTHING. The same laws that apply to everyone else, also apply to religious institutions. That's FAIR! And NOT a violation of the 1st amendment. A violation of the 1st Amendment would be "Businesses must do these things in order to pass building inspection. BUT CHURCHES, they have to do all that and then some!".

Secondly, if this news story was truly a blatant violation of the 1st Amendment, it would have gotten better media coverage than it did. I googled the story, and only found it on conservative blogs, and conservative radio. TRUST me, if this story was really TRUE, it would have been GREAT for Fox News. It would be on Fox's Website, it would have aired on the Fox News channel. Hell, to be honest it would have found its way on MSNBC, CNN, Current... All kinds of news channels would cover that blatant violation of what is right.

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

TRUST me, if this story was really TRUE, it would have been GREAT for Fox News.

lol, like that's a criterion for them.

Originally Posted by Xei

lol, like that's a criterion for them.

No, but they wouldn't put anything on their channel that MSNBC could destroy this easily.

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

Leave it to conservative nutjobs to make sure that "OBAMA'S A DICTATOR" makes its way into the video somehow.

A short discourse on 'Presidential Decision Directive 51' (PDD 51) which any free thinking individual would consider to be the foundation stone of a fully prepared military dictatorship:

An Obama executive order that creates a council of state governors who will work with the feds to expand military involvement in domestic security, together with PDD 51, a Bush era executive order that gives the President dictatorial power in times of national emergency, eliminate the last roadblocks to declaring martial law in the United States.

The new order, which is entitled Establishment of the Council of Governors, creates a body of ten state governors directly appointed by Obama who will work with the federal government to help advance the 'synchronization and integration of State and Federal military activities in the United States'.

The governors will liaise with officials from Northcom, Homeland Security, the National Guard as well as DoD officials from the Pentagon 'in order to strengthen further the partnership between the Federal Government and State governments,' according to the executive order.

The exective order combines seamlessly with Presidential Decision Directive 51 to hand Obama dictator status in times of declared, and not necessarily genuine, national emergency.

In May 2007, former President George W. Bush sparked much alarm by openly declaring himself to be a dictator in the event of a national emergency under provisions that effectively nullify the U.S. constitution, but such an infrastructure has been in place for over 70 years and this merely represented a re-authorisation of martial law powers.

Legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a 'catastrophic event', the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.

The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive, which also places the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic 'security', was signed earlier without the approval or oversight of Congress and seemingly supercedes the National Emergency Act which allows the president to declare a national emergency but also requires that Congress have the authority to 'modify, rescind, or render dormant' such emergency authority if it believes the president has acted inappropriately.

In July 2007, Congressman Peter DeFazio was asked by his constituents to see what was contained within the classified portion of the White House’s plan for operating the government after a terrorist attack.

Since DeFazio also sits on the Homeland Security Committee and has clearance to view classified material, the request would have appeared to be routine, but the Congressman was unceremoniously denied all access to view the documents, and the White House wouldn’t even give an excuse as to why he was barred.

"I just can’t believe they’re going to deny a member of Congress the right of reviewing how they plan to conduct the government of the United States after a significant terrorist attack," DeFazio told the Oregonian.

"We’re talking about the continuity of the government of the United States of America," DeFazio says. "I would think that would be relevant to any member of Congress, let alone a member of the Homeland Security Committee."

These new powers have now been handed over to President Obama, allowing him, along with a body of councillors personally selected by him, to declare martial law without there necessarily being a genuine national emergency, greasing the skids for U.S. troops and National Guard to conduct domestic policing of the American people.

In October 2008, Northcom, a Unified Combatant Command of the United States military based out of Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs, was assigned the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team returning from Iraq. An alarming September 8 Army Times report which was later denied after it sparked controversy stated that the troops would be used by Northcom to deal with "civil unrest and crowd control" in the aftermath of a national emergency.

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

This man was charged with failing to uphold building codes... The same thing would have happened to anyone who tried to build an arcade hall in their back yard.. These are not laws regarding the establishment of religion. These are laws regarding the establishment of ANYTHING. The same laws that apply to everyone else, also apply to religious institutions. That's FAIR! And NOT a violation of the 1st amendment. A violation of the 1st Amendment would be "Businesses must do these things in order to pass building inspection. BUT CHURCHES, they have to do all that and then some!".

What if a bunch of guys after going to a public bridge club to play a game of cards all go back to one of the player's houses to sit down and study a book on bridge strategy. Should they get banged up in jail and be fined thousands of dollars? That is just f**cking ridiculous, but that is what is happening, in essence, in the OP.

"Any freethinking individual" would hold the same opinion as you? That doesn't make any sense at all. A freethinking individual would form their own opinion on the matter...

I read both PDD51 and Obama's Executive order, as well as discovering that there are many other types of Continuity of Operations Plans. Signed into law by several of our recent presidents over the course of 50 years. Sure, this is the effect of ridiculous terror/nuke scares. But you're pulling it all out of context.

These seem to be plans to make sure that the government continues to work in the event of a catastrophic disaster where communication and resources are limited. In all the texts of the executive orders you are citing, I have found NOTHING that would make the President gain unlimited power. Absolutely NOTHING. You are making this out to be something that it actually is not.

As far as your analogy to a bridge club... Suppose they were meeting at their house to play and study their book on bridge strategy... That wouldn't be a big deal. But suppose they had a steel building constructed in their backyard, and their organization began to grow. When local officials asked them to follow building code, they told the local officials to leave them alone, and that they had no right to be there. When local officials continued to ask them to follow building codes, they CONTINUED to defy the law after being warned. This would be the same thing.

If you had read the details of the case, the bible study guy was not arrested for refusing to follow rules regarding getting a church licensed, or unlawfully assembling people... He was arrested for REFUSING to follow safety regulations in the construction of a public establishment.

Like I said before. It doesn't MATTER why these people are assembling - be it worship or a card games. When the assembly went from a house-hold get-together, and began to grow into an organization, suddenly there are laws regarding safety and building regulations...

This is the case for EVERYONE.

This guy ignored public authorities, refused to abide by the law, and thought he could get away with it by crying "religious persecution!". Now he's paying for it by serving jail time and paying a fine. And rightfully so. His case was reviewed by the american court system that still hasn't been dissolved by our dictator presidents, and he LOST the case.

This only happens in countries controlled by the muslim, black Joseph Hitler.

My main problem with this, McWillis, is that it's old news. But because its christian, it's newsworthy.

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

"Any freethinking individual" would hold the same opinion as you? That doesn't make any sense at all. A freethinking individual would form their own opinion on the matter...

I read both PDD51 and Obama's Executive order, as well as discovering that there are many other types of Continuity of Operations Plans. Signed into law by several of our recent presidents over the course of 50 years. Sure, this is the effect of ridiculous terror/nuke scares. But you're pulling it all out of context.

These seem to be plans to make sure that the government continues to work in the event of a catastrophic disaster where communication and resources are limited. In all the texts of the executive orders you are citing, I have found NOTHING that would make the President gain unlimited power. Absolutely NOTHING. You are making this out to be something that it actually is not.

I have very little time right now but I completely disagree with the above. It is shrouded in utter skullduggery when it should be a completely transparent process. You mention a disaster where communication and resources are limited. Well the limititation of resources is the endgame that is fuelling the slow prcoess to dismantle democracy. Have you considered why every radio or television station across the US has a government controlled kill-switch installed in them where installations began in the late 90's? The cold-war was practically over and terrorism wasn't a global issue. They want to keep us in the dark one day when the proverbial shit hits the fan. The same process of the dismantling of democracy is happeneing in my country to a much, much lesser degree but it is still happening.

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

As far as your analogy to a bridge club... Suppose they were meeting at their house to play and study their book on bridge strategy... That wouldn't be a big deal. But suppose they had a steel building constructed in their backyard, and their organization began to grow. When local officials asked them to follow building code, they told the local officials to leave them alone, and that they had no right to be there. When local officials continued to ask them to follow building codes, they CONTINUED to defy the law after being warned. This would be the same thing.

If you had read the details of the case, the bible study guy was not arrested for refusing to follow rules regarding getting a church licensed, or unlawfully assembling people... He was arrested for REFUSING to follow safety regulations in the construction of a public establishment.

Like I said before. It doesn't MATTER why these people are assembling - be it worship or a card games. When the assembly went from a house-hold get-together, and began to grow into an organization, suddenly there are laws regarding safety and building regulations...

This is the case for EVERYONE.

This guy ignored public authorities, refused to abide by the law, and thought he could get away with it by crying "religious persecution!". Now he's paying for it by serving jail time and paying a fine. And rightfully so. His case was reviewed by the american court system that still hasn't been dissolved by our dictator presidents, and he LOST the case.

Great commentary.

Have you considered why every radio or television station across the US has a government controlled kill-switch installed in them where installations began in the late 90's?

I have not considered WHY, because I have yet to meet the prerequisite of considering the possibility that it's even TRUE.

I'll say this once and once only: FUCK INFOWARS

Originally Posted by Supernova

I'll say this once and once only: FUCK INFOWARS

And Natural News. Ridiculous and incredibly poor sources for information.

I see signs for infowars posted on telephone poles and the like all over where I live; I often have the urge to go out one night and paste over all of them with stickers for thinkprogress.org

Originally Posted by DreiHundert

All kinds of news channels would cover that blatant violation of what is right.

The same way they covered the Ron Paul blackout?

No offense Dreihundert but that was a really ignorant thing to say.

Do you know who this is? If not, then how can you make a claim like that?

Psst, a bomb was dropped on that American child and his cousins. Then CNN tried to paint him as a potential militant.