Originally Posted by Miguelinileugim
Here's my massive reply to your massive reply
1st paragraph: Actually I find it hard to view lucid dreams as more consistent than the waking world, the waking world may seem inconsistent from time to time but it is almost flawless while lucid dreams are not.I
Yeah, I agree that waking life is almost flawless because it's what I've been accustomed to for most of my life. But I would assume that if a person had 20 years of lucid dreaming recall, there would be some consistency, but it would be based on them already being accustomed to how their subconscious associates things in their dreams (it may not be as perfect as their associations in the real world of course).
2nd, 3rd and 4th paragraph: I wasn't saying that lucid dreams are, necessarily, always, for every sane or insane person, more real. OK, I said "real world" instead of "waking world", but that doesn't mean is necessarily more real than the other.
Even more, is paradoxical to be an absolute idealist and speak about a "real reality"
Agreed.
5th and 6th paragraph: Yes, I'm aware that even the same idea of absolute idealism contradicts itself. It's like saying "I believe X, so I will stop believing X as X tells me that X is not true" and then "wait... wasn't X true?" and then repeating the process till you understand that you're better off acting like X is true for everything but itself.
7th and 8th paragraph: Still, I don't believe that the "waking life" is necessarily more consistent/continuous than the "dream life".
Oooh okay, gotcha. Sorry about that, I had to go with some presumption to see where you were going. I understand now.
9th, 10th and 11th paragraph: So, lucid dreams can be as continuous/consistent as real life? I agree then, but it depends of your perception of waking and dreaming reality.
I agree, it's all about your perception.
12th paragraph: You have quite severe existential problems apparently. Though I suggest you to believe provisionally the "necessary" truth of science, you know, because science is the thing that makes more sense of the basket of things that don't make any metaphysical sense.
I think I have a bit more problems than that, lately I've been mixing up so many concepts at once that it's hard to find the backup to what I believed before indulging into lucid dreaming and beyond dreaming concepts.
I'm actually surprised I'm still sane right now honestly. XD
13th paragraph: I agree with that, being close-minded may prevent you from entering a sect, but a "developed" reason will do the same plus won't prevent you from experiencing good things like lucid dreaming.
I agree with the developed reason, but what I meant by close-minded is when a person goes a bit too far and doesn't try to balance things out. A good and intelligent reason built upon personal experience definitely is a benefit, as long as one can still get their feet in the waters and not become too emotionally attached to that developed reason. Even if the reason itself is scientific to that person, the person's emotional reaction to it definitely isn't, in my opinion.
14th paragraph: That's just the result of having a lot of confusing feelings together, you should have noticed that since you're now agnostic your mind is an anarchy (though that's not the only way, personally my mind is a police state and we probably don't differ too much in our philosophical positions).
My mind definitely is an anarchy, but not completely. I used to be emotionally bound to certain things I did in life (trying to make decent friends, learning how to be sociable etc.), but I wouldn't say my mind is totally anarchy. I just focus more and having a clear mindset, and not letting anxiety and other negative emotions bring me down.
I like to think of it as being able to analyze my situation first before I panic, because the panicking itself creates the confusing feelings. The agnostic mentality is really the only practical label I can give myself, but other than that, I wouldn't say that I have complete absence of freedom or authority, because if that were the case, I'd be so paranoid, a pin dropping on a floor would make me pass out.
Honestly, I just cherry pick the concepts, kind of like taking the mistletoe concept of Christmas and kissing anyone under me (hopefully a female ), but not really focusing too much on people's perception with the Christian God and Jesus.
15th and 16th paragraph: Still, science is a "necessary" truth, it doesn't have to be true, but as I said before, when nothing makes metaphysical sense, science is the non-metaphysical truest thing of all. So, I don't think is a good idea to see lucid dreaming unscientifically, though is a great idea to experience lucid dreaming that way I think.
17th paragraph: So, first you'll explore the unknown, then you'll rationalize it, great idea, though I prefer to set up my rational basis first and then start processing any rational/emotional/spiritual input I get from lucid dreams.
I agree that science is "necessary", but the thing is that I wanted to express is understanding the concepts "unscientifically" first, like understanding the presumptions of whatever concept that isn't practically defined. (Example: Astral projection.....even though I'm skeptical about it, if I wanted to understand what people are hyped up about it, I would try to research the concepts that build that hype, which then allows me to make a presumptive way of thinking....then if I experiment with it a bit (and I mean going hard as nails with the anecdotes and presumed techniques about it), then after a while, I would attempt to make my own scientific conclusion.
Of course, it doesn't mean I would stop there, the experience itself would just be added on to my overall perspective of dreaming life, waking life and other "lives" people presume there is.
18th paragraph: However, no mental blocks = anarchy. And anarchy doesn't exists, it just means that there are many powers fighting together for control, understanding more things and destroying mind blocks is a great idea if you want to do some mental cleanup, but is a terrible idea to live with that.
I agree that you can't possibly destroy all mind blocks, it's practically impossible, especially when I see the unconscious as this grand sea. It'd be impossible to go after each particle of water that represents a conditioned response in this life.
I just wanted to mention about temporarily disregarding the block, or changing how that same mental block reacts to a situation.
You want to experience everything you get from lucid dreams in an anarchic way? That's fine, the problem is that the emotional and pseudo-rational input overload may even let you rationally-impaired for quite a lot of time.
It's just one way of thinking that seems favorable to me, BUT I know that doing it in an "anarchic way" will often leave me discouraged to explore anything. The thing is, I know I can't be completely in control of everything in my mind, the subconscious is going to have some authority of course, and I honestly would prefer the subconscious guiding me, so I can see how it actually associates whatever concept I'm trying to learn or recall again.
I honestly want to experience lucid dreams where I get this simulation of being an adventure that isn't able to be aware of everything that will come at him. Honestly, only few of my lucids have been close to being a "god," but I woke up quickly because of the exhilaration.
Now I'm focusing on just being calm in a dream, not assuming too much authority that I am capable of doing this or that; the idea of only going for complete control seems boring since I want to use dreams as something productive I can use for waking life.
The god mode is fun, but it's more for novelty rather than spamming it each night in my opinion.
Most things that seem extremely complex in an emotional way, in a rational way are just... emotions, maybe you aren't discovering anything new, maybe you're just having quite a lot of powerful emotions that are leading you to... well... nowhere but the unknown and to metaphysical uncertainty.
I actually agree with this to some extent, but here's an example of how emotions can often be a stepping stone towards certainty (or at least one of more understanding and assurance):
Example (and this actually happened a few times for me):
When I try to shoot someone in the dream, it ever fires. No matter how much effort I exert into pulling the trigger, I either have crappy aim or it just doesn't shoot. But when I'm with a dream character that is just as aware as I am in the dream, a manifestation of my subconscious that's actually more practical than the bland and derpy-faced dream characters.....
If that person gets injured, and I couldn't do anything about it...obviously the right emotion based on understanding the experience of what it feels like to lose someone that actually makes sense in my dreams causes me suddenly have the ability to kill the person who injured them.
So, I suggest you to start searching for a new rational basis to process all the input you're getting from lucid dreaming, if you feel uncertain, it's probably because you haven't searched enough.
19th paragraph: Another metaphysical problem you'll have to solve.
Exactly, I agree, I'm actually trying to get a new rational basis by the day, because I know the endeavors I'm trying to experiment now definitely needs something I can hold on to just in case tings get too hectic for me.
20th paragraph: I agree, it's extremely hard to have a proper rational discussion, my trick is to be hyper-analytical, preferently using formal logic.
Of course, you can never be too careful.
21th and 22th paragraph: Yes, thinking like that creates a lot of mental blocks. That's why I have quite a "strong" philosophical basis and that I use to reconstruct everything above them from time to time.
Yes, I definitely need to make a strong foundation again. I had this concept of having a room base that would connect to other "realms" of my consciousness, and if anything messes up, I would have some safety mechanism to transfer myself to that base/foundation again.
It's kind of like opening a random door and seeing a three headed dragon playing chess with Richard Simmons, I definitely would want to close that door before something else gets weird.
23th paragraph: That's not a novel! That's a thesis! This too!
P.S: Thanks for replying before too! You've set my personal record of "longest reply ever received for the shortest comment ever written"
I apologize for the presumptions I had when you stated about continuity, but I'm glad you took the time to explain it all, I understand what you mean, and I feel our ways of thinking are similar to some extent (but your foundation is definitely stronger than mine since I've been a bit too loose with the abstract....like really loose).
Thanks for responding!
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