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    Thread: What is an unforgivable sin?

    1. #1
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      What is an unforgivable sin?

      I'm not creating this post for people to discuss whether or not Christianity is a load of bull, so please don't. This is just something rolling around in my head. Humor me

      Supposedly the only unforgivable sin is not to accept God and Christ and all that. So what if a person did believe all those things, then decided Christianity was fake and that god wasn't real? Since forgiveness covers everything you are going to do and god knows everything you are going to do, does that forgiveness cover renouncing god? Or is the forgiveness active provided you fulfill the requirements (have confessed with your mouth and believe in your heart)?
      “Never forget that once upon a time, in an unguarded moment, you recognized yourself as a friend.”

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      Wait so if I'm not supposed to say Christianity is bull how exactly do I respond to the atrocious inconsistency you just brought up?

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Beyond simple inconsistency I mean, that's an easy answer Under the assumption that Christianity is real (like I said, humor me), how would you go about answering that?
      “Never forget that once upon a time, in an unguarded moment, you recognized yourself as a friend.”

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      I would say that the whole concept of turning away from God is a symbol and doesn't literally translate to accepting Jesus, specifically, but means something more general like love.

      No matter what good you've done in your life, if you turn against love, you will continue to dwell in hell. Meanwhile, no matter what evil you've done, as long as you can turn to love, you can transcend it.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Original Poster View Post
      I would say that the whole concept of turning away from God is a symbol and doesn't literally translate to accepting Jesus, specifically, but means something more general like love.

      No matter what good you've done in your life, if you turn against love, you will continue to dwell in hell. Meanwhile, no matter what evil you've done, as long as you can turn to love, you can transcend it.
      There is nothing like "no matter what evil you've done", because EVERY person on the Earth has sinned. Getting to heaven requires you to be sinless, through Jesus Christ. Sins aren't welcome in heaven.

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      I think you really narrowed the scope of the question when you used the word "sin". I don't think everyone has the same definition for that. Please explain your definition of "sin".
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      Quote Originally Posted by MrOMGWTF View Post
      There is nothing like "no matter what evil you've done", because EVERY person on the Earth has sinned. Getting to heaven requires you to be sinless, through Jesus Christ. Sins aren't welcome in heaven.
      ...and this is what I'm talking about. OP was not talking about Jesus Christ, so you two are discussing two separate possibilities here. OP is using "God" as a metaphor for love. MrOMGWTF is reading from the Bible. I could tell you all that there is no such thing as sin, that you have sinned against Gaia, or that you should sin because it makes Satan happy. I see this conversation going nowhere unless the answer is established.
      NewArtemis mentioned Christianity in the original post. Are you looking for a Christian answer? If so, I really have nothing to say on the matter. If not, on what ground should we all meet? Or should we all just start preaching our own scientific and spiritual views? That sounds dangerous.
      ---o--- my DCs say I'm dreamy.

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      Good points, Sloth. I suppose I'm looking more for an answer from a Christian perspective since it's their faith, and anyone else can pretty easily bash it by simply saying that that faith isn't true, isn't real, etc etc. However I am curious about what other people think about the whole question. If you guys don't think it's real, that's cool. I'm just trying to come up with different perspectives on the subject and saying the whole thing is a load of crap isn't really a new perspective to me.

      The definition for sin... again, good point, because I bet we all have our own definition here. In this instance it is again more geared towards Christians, I would define sin as being acts that go against what god outlined in the bible. (Which is a whole nother topic of debate in itself, but there you go.) This all would be bible-based, preferably.

      As for everyone preaching their own views, like I said, I'm not totally against that but this is more asking Christians. I think that if everyone started spouting off what they thought there would be a massive flame war and the original question would get hopelessly buried and twisted under loads of attacks, put downs, and the rest.

      And before you all start calling me a narrow-minded fool, please keep in mind that these aren't my views, just my question to a religion I am highly familiar with but seems filled with inconsistencies. I'm trying to keep an open mind for all points of view, and I'd like to see how they respond.
      “Never forget that once upon a time, in an unguarded moment, you recognized yourself as a friend.”

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      As I understand the Christian view, you can be forgiven and still not accept Christ. This does not satisfy the requirements to enter heaven. To enter heaven you must accept Christ, forgiven or not.
      I honestly don't know what they mean by "accept Christ" though. I have never received a solid answer to that question.
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      I have yet to see a Christian answer the question, so far one's responded to the semantics of my post, that's it.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    11. #11
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      (What is "the unpardonable sin?" How does sin become "unforgivable?")

      As the Quest Study Bible puts it, “Jesus gave the solemn warning in these verses to people whose hard-heartedness placed them on the brink of disaster. Blasphemy against the Spirit evidently is not just a one-time offense; rather, it is an ongoing attitude of rebellion – a stubborn way of life that continually resists, rejects and insults the Holy Spirit. This is what makes it, in effect, an eternal sin (Mark 3:29). Blasphemy against the Spirit is not unforgivable because of something done unintentionally in the past, but because of something being done deliberately and unrelentingly in the present.”
      So if you’re an authentic Christian, don’t spend time fretting over whether you have accidentally committed this unforgivable offense. “There is no biblical evidence that a genuine Christian can commit this (unforgivable) sin,” says the Apologetics Study Bible. “Fear that one has done so is probably a good sign that one hasn’t, for full-fledged apostasy is a defiant rejection of everything Christian and lacks the tender conscience that would be worried about such an action.”
      (According to someone's view anyway)

      So perhaps it's just denial, which doesn't make much sense to me anyway. How can someone believe something (that God exists), yet reject that belief and choose to believe something else (that God doesn't exist)? That would be some pretty intense self-deception. Unless any of us atheists do believe in God at a subconscious level I don't think we're in danger of committing the unforgivable sin.

      Look at this poor person (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-ed...ablesin.html):

      "I would like to just know if what it says in Matthew is true. It states that every sin is forgivable, except if a person speaks badly about the Holy Spirit. I have attended a private Christian school and one day my Bible teacher was saying that a person is not forgiven if he/she speaks against the Holy Spirit. As he stated that… I thought something against the Holy Spirit. I did not mean to… it just happened. I prayed and asked forgiveness, but does that mean I am forgiven or eternally condemned? SINCERELY WORRIED"
      And the answer is similar:

      It is unequivocally clear that the one unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ (John 3:18; 3:36). Thus, speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible.
      So the sources I've provided, at least, seem to think it's only an unforgivable sin if they know at some level they're wrong but are choosing to believe against God anyway, and are sure enough that they'll never have to worry about whether they'll be forgiven because they'll never try to repent. I'm just guessing here but I suppose if the person did completely turn around, realize they believe in God and beg for forgiveness, it would be said that they never really rejected God completely or they wouldn't have been able to come back, and they'd be forgiven.
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    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dianeva View Post
      (What is "the unpardonable sin?" How does sin become "unforgivable?")





      (According to someone's view anyway)

      So perhaps it's just denial, which doesn't make much sense to me anyway. How can someone believe something (that God exists), yet reject that belief and choose to believe something else (that God doesn't exist)? That would be some pretty intense self-deception. Unless any of us atheists do believe in God at a subconscious level I don't think we're in danger of committing the unforgivable sin.

      Look at this poor person (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-ed...ablesin.html):



      And the answer is similar:



      So the sources I've provided, at least, seem to think it's only an unforgivable sin if they know at some level they're wrong but are choosing to believe against God anyway, and are sure enough that they'll never have to worry about whether they'll be forgiven because they'll never try to repent. I'm just guessing here but I suppose if the person did completely turn around, realize they believe in God and beg for forgiveness, it would be said that they never really rejected God completely or they wouldn't have been able to come back, and they'd be forgiven.
      Dianeva, I respond to the information that you have presented, and not to you.



      That sounds like a much too complicated, twisted, and obnoxious standard for deciding who gets to go to paradise, and who gets an eternity of agony. How can I offend someone that I don't believe in? I can't CHOOSE what to believe, because my brain functions and whatnot. It thinks, and stuff.
      But I'm not saying anything more about that. It's hard for me to stay neutral when it comes to Christianity. I have 16 churches in my town, but no McDonalds.
      Last edited by sloth; 01-30-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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    13. #13
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      I apologize, in fact. This is unlike me. I really try to be open minded.
      ---o--- my DCs say I'm dreamy.

    14. #14
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      I wonder how many Christians think they're guaranteed to get into heaven merely because they believe in Jesus.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


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