Thread: message to lucifers followers

The most devout followers of the Dark One refer to him as God up High. The change of our era is not a vanquishing of evil, but of polarity. Practice compassion.

Vanguishing of evil is the change of the era. Restoration of earth.

Can Heaven's current angels be trusted? Is there a chance that any of them will spontaneously go completely psycho and do the most evil supernatural stuff imaginable? If there is, then how good are they, really?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Can Heaven's current angels be trusted? Is there a chance that any of them will spontaneously go completely psycho and do the most evil supernatural stuff imaginable? If there is, then how good are they, really?

What's your point? What are you getting at?

Originally Posted by AURON

What's your point? What are you getting at?

I am curious about the answers to those questions. What are they?

If one angel of Heaven can suddenly go mental and start trying to destroy humanity and burn people forever, and he can recruit a lot of other angels of Heaven to join him, can the current angels of Heaven be trusted? They are supposed to be supergood beings of love. How loving are they, and how dependable is their goodness? I have wondered that about the concept of angels for a while, and this is my first time to discuss it with anybody else. I am curious about what people think about this issue. What do you think?

Originally Posted by knight31

You can defile gods image, make fun of his sacrifices.

But in the end, do you not see that you don't have the strength to win. In your free will you have chosen pride and envy, and it has made you weak. The more you follow the heavier the chains of bondage have become and the more you have descended away from heaven.

If there any hope for Lucifer after such a fall from the highest place? He was among the most beautiful powerful and awe inspiring of beings in charge over many angels. Yet he fell down like lightening from that place of perfection. Of his own doing he turned everything beautiful about him into a virus that plagued the earth.

What chance would you have as a follower to attain anything other than this virus, which is already manifesting in you as it has lucifer.

you forgot to capitalize god. Pretty sure that's a sin, but I'm not a christian anymore.

As for your questions UM, I don't think Lucifer set out to burn people or temp them if I remember the story correctly. He just defied god and god banished him. But I could be remembering it wrong, I forget how all the temptation stuff get's in there, but it comes in later.

I believe that believing that lucifer is real gives evil unnecessary power by personifying it. Also it gives one an excuse to not be accountable for one's own actions: it's not my fault because the devil made me do it. I believe in one God, not two: I do not believe in the devil. I believe that hell is of one's own choosing: God loves people so much that if they insist on not being with God, God is willing to let them go because that is their choice even though they get an infinite number of opportunities to change their mind and choose to be closer to God. I believe God is love, and hell is the absence of love. God is wisdom, and hell is ignorance. Being with God one has good potentials and opportunities, and hell is not having any of those. I believe that some atheists are more likely to reach heaven before some Christians (not all atheists and not all Christians, but some). I do not believe that not believing in God is an unpardonable sin. Neither is believing in lucifer, although as I said in the beginning believing in an ultimate evil entity gives evil power, and I am not willing to do that.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Can Heaven's current angels be trusted? Is there a chance that any of them will spontaneously go completely psycho and do the most evil supernatural stuff imaginable? If there is, then how good are they, really?

The story goes that in order for god to create a being capable of love, in which he could love them an them love him eternally, that would need free will to be able to hold that quality, or the beings would just be artificial. So when he designed that angel of lucifer and the other angels, they still have to have free will or it wouldn't work.

Now you ask how can they be trusted, well the answer is they are still in heaven, then likely they are there for a reason. And that reason is that they have the proper authority to be there. Soon as Lucifer lost the plot and had his wisdom corrupted with pride and envy of gods power, (through his own will) suddenly it's stated by Jesus that he saw lucifer fall from heaven like lightening, together with his followers. He no longer had the authority to be there and he fell.

Because of his greatness in heaven, his fall was all the worse, and went down to great depths. And it's said that most in heaven who witnessed the spectacle were astonished at him. Those that hold the power and hold the key, have the authority to be there. And if they didn't have the authority to be there, they wouldn't. That's nature.

Originally Posted by StonedApe

you forgot to capitalize god. Pretty sure that's a sin, but I'm not a christian anymore.

And yet ironically it's not a very significant sin at all in comparison to the ridiculous type of attitude that brings forth your type of comments.

haha sorry I had to add that. And yeah the rest of your comments to UM is just plain inaccurate. But it's not surprising considering your choice of avatar and name "stonedape".

But it's not surprising considering your choice of avatar and name "stonedape".

Keep the discussion on topic, and let's leave this type of comments out of it else we're gonna have inflammatory posting really soon which sucks because the discussion is pretty interesting so far, thanks

Originally Posted by Zoth

Keep the discussion on topic, and let's leave this type of comments out of it else we're gonna have inflammatory posting really soon which sucks because the discussion is pretty interesting so far, thanks

well said

It's always one man's God against another's in this world. You only think Lucifer is evil because your twisted religion tells you to think that. You don't have any certainty what's going on. That's why I say vanquishing evil is not the change we're seeing because one man's evil god is another man's good god. We must release ourselves from the trap of polarity and division, that is how we will restore the Earth. Practice Compassion.

You are falling into that satanic banner of relativism. In which Lucifer is trying to foster in order that he may put forth an unchallenged world view for global domination under the banner of unification. By making every belief system equal, he can utilize that for his new world order. I almost fell into that type of thinking. Until I realized something. If the sky is said to be blue, that's exclusive, not inclusive. It's saying it's not red or orange, but blue. The truth is divisive in nature. You either have truth, or you don't.

30% of the bible is prophecy, much of it is being fulfilled these very times we are in. What other book can claim that? It says in the end times evil will be wiped from the earth and that the lord and his kingdom will come.

I hate evil. I'm not compassionate of evil. If i was compassionate of evil that would be satanic thinking, not truth of god.

Compassion or tolerance of evil is weakness and iniquity. Save your soul before it's to late.

You would like to think I have no certainty. But once something is learned it cannot be unlearned. When something is gained cannot be ungained. You are too late to tell me I have no certainty now.

I believe that the bible has truth in it, but it also has interpretations by humans who wrote it who were wrong sometimes. I do not know what percentage of the bible is correct. I can do my best to speculate on what is right and follow it in best faith, but I know that I am a fallible human being and likely have not figured out what is right correctly all the time. I keep trying and hopefully improving over time. I believe every major faith of the world has got somethings wrong and somethings right, and no that is not because I am relativist: I actually believe in absolute good, but I believe that no single religion has all truth on its side. As a Christian, I hope that we got enough right to reach salvation using our faith, but I do not believe that a good person of another faith will necessarily go to hell because they got a different set of beliefs correct than we did. Although I may be wrong on that of course, because I am a fallible human. I believe only God knows the whole truth. I believe that while there is absolute good and bad, but circumstances do matter: a person who steals out of greed is not in the same class as a person who steals bread to feed kids. Life is too complicated to simplify it to a set of rules with no exceptions, but that does not mean that good is completely relative because I believe it not. Still there are a lot of shades of grey in life, and two people can have two opposite views and both be right (and if they fight over it both are wrong to do so). I believe that a lot of dichotomies which we perceive are just due to our limited view: we are like the blind men who got hold of different parts of the elephant, and thus we think that our beliefs contradict eachother. Whereas God knows it all, and probably shakes his head at our petty squabbles.

Joanna there is actually only 2 religions operating in the world. One is of Christianity and contains the holy bible. The other religion is the religion of babylon, and is split up into many parts. Lucifer plans to join them together in 'unity' to form a one world government and defeat god and hence Christianity (though that's not possible, his vanity is what made him fall to earth in first place) The plan is by making christianity the minority that does not accept the "relativistic" approach of tolerance of other belief systems, that Christianity becomes hated. Because he has split his religion into so many parts to give the illusion see.

You don't realize how clever this guy is, He was the original Angel, So don't expect him to be dumb or not have some type of plan to buy your soul here.

Here is a clue in the bible that makes reference to this future account

"You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

Every other religion will hate those in Christianity who do not accept the relativistic approach

And it's all coming to pass as fortold.

Originally Posted by knight31

You are falling into that satanic banner of relativism. In which Lucifer is trying to foster in order that he may put forth an unchallenged world view for global domination under the banner of unification. By making every belief system equal, he can utilize that for his new world order. I almost fell into that type of thinking. Until I realized something. If the sky is said to be blue, that's exclusive, not inclusive. It's saying it's not red or orange, but blue. The truth is divisive in nature. You either have truth, or you don't.

30% of the bible is prophecy, much of it is being fulfilled these very times we are in. What other book can claim that? It says in the end times evil will be wiped from the earth and that the lord and his kingdom will come.

I hate evil. I'm not compassionate of evil. If i was compassionate of evil that would be satanic thinking, not truth of god.

Compassion or tolerance of evil is weakness and iniquity. Save your soul before it's to late.

You would like to think I have no certainty. But once something is learned it cannot be unlearned. When something is gained cannot be ungained. You are too late to tell me I have no certainty now.

You have fallen for Satan's single worst trap. You have confused your perspective for the truth. Warped as you are now, you are capable of puppetry with the most terrible master, hate. Hate, you see, leads to the darkside. Claiming you hate Satan, you are already working for him.

Knight31, all I can say at this point is that I sincerely hope that you are wrong and I am right because if you are right a much smaller proportion of the world's population will be saved, and to be honest then I do not want to be in that number, because that would mean that my belief that God loves all humanity was wrong, and being in heaven with a very small minority of very self righteous people sounds like hell to me.

Originally Posted by knight31

Lucifer plans to join them together in 'unity' to form a one world government and defeat god and hence Christianity

sounds good to me

Seriously though, what exactly is the point of this thread?

All one can do is plant seeds.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

Knight31, all I can say at this point is that I sincerely hope that you are wrong and I am right because if you are right a much smaller proportion of the world's population will be saved, and to be honest then I do not want to be in that number, because that would mean that my belief that God loves all humanity was wrong, and being in heaven with a very small minority of very self righteous people sounds like hell to me.

New International Version (©2011)
"You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

You already 'hate' me for my 'self righteousness'. See, it's happening.

I guess the point of the thread is to save souls. Instead of lucifer buying them.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

All one can do is plant seeds.

It's good that I intensely hate evil. Means I'll take action against it. Not a bystander with a 'compassionate' view. If anyone is a puppet it's the one that is immobilized in the face of evil with a 'compassionate relative' view.

How is your compassion of evil going? People better not trust their wife or children around you since you are so compassionate of rapist.

Originally Posted by FriendlyFace

sounds good to me

Seriously though, what exactly is the point of this thread? Do y'all think you're actually going to change each others' minds?

Probably not. However, not talking to eachother is worse in my opinion. Also I am proof that people can change their religious beliefs and moral values: when I was a teenager I believed that there was right and wrong and nothing in between, I was homophobic, and I went around arguing with people who did not want to that abortion is murder. Then in college I got a whole bunch of excellent professors including one who taught me religious tolerance in a class called "Philosophy of Eastern Religions", a political science and history professor who managed to get into my thick skull the concept that in wars for example there are two sides to the story and while history is written by the victors but the other side is not necessarily wrong, and a professor who was so militantly a gay activist and yet he was a wonderful English professor, and I realized that I was being hypocritical that he could not be my favorite professor without my accepting who he is. So people can change. No, I do not believe that I can persuade knight31 but if none of us ever heard different points of view from our own that would be a sad state of affairs, and while I cannot change another's beliefs, I know that a person can choose to change their own beliefs - and I know because I did, and if I had not heard what those professors in college had to tell me, I might not have.

Ps: knight31, I do not hate you. I would have no problem with a heaven where both of us were saved along with a large portion of humanity. I believe God loves you and me both. My ideal heaven would be one where in the end God through his love somehow manages to save everyone - I don't know how he could do that, but if anybody could He could, and if he loves all of us, then maybe somehow he will manage to save us all.

PPS: It occurred to me that while there are evil deeds, but are there any people who could not be redeemed given an eternity of trying to teach them good and given infinite love?

Originally Posted by knight31

I guess the point of the thread is to save souls. Instead of lucifer buying them.

Yeah, seems like you're doing great job.

Originally Posted by FriendlyFace

Yeah, seems like you're doing great job.

haha, do some pagan yoga then. What's that one called salutation to the sun, or something like that? And take your sweaty babylon bath towel with you

Originally Posted by JoannaB

Probably not. However, not talking to eachother is worse in my opinion. Also I am proof that people can change their religious beliefs and moral values: when I was a teenager I believed that there was right and wrong and nothing in between, I was homophobic, and I went around arguing with people who did not want to that abortion is murder. Then in college I got a whole bunch of excellent professors including one who taught me religious tolerance in a class called "Philosophy of Eastern Religions", a political science and history professor who managed to get into my thick skull the concept that in wars for example there are two sides to the story and while history is written by the victors but the other side is not necessarily wrong, and a professor who was so militantly a gay activist and yet he was a wonderful English professor, and I realized that I was being hypocritical that he could not be my favorite professor without my accepting who he is. So people can change. No, I do not believe that I can persuade knight31 but if none of us ever heard different points of view from our own that would be a sad state of affairs, and while I cannot change another's beliefs, I know that a person can choose to change their own beliefs - and I know because I did, and if I had not heard what those professors in college had to tell me, I might not have.

Ps: knight31, I do not hate you. I would have no problem with a heaven where both of us were saved along with a large portion of humanity. I believe God loves you and me both.

Well god loves you but that doesn't mean you are automatically saved no matter what. Just like you cannot jump off the roof of a building and hit the concrete without injury because there is things known as consequences. I already made myself into an academic btw specifically so I wouldn't have to hear your lecture on how smart you are compared to me in those instances.

I never disagreed with anything you're saying, friend. I just think if you're trying to convert people a) this is the wrong platform and b) you're not very good at it. Seriously, you gotta give people more than "you're going to hell because I read it in a book."

Originally Posted by FriendlyFace

I never disagreed with anything you're saying, friend. I just think if you're trying to convert people a) this is the wrong platform and b) you're not very good at it. Seriously, you gotta give people more than "you're going to hell because I read it in a book."

You are not very good at representing the sun either but you don't hear me complaining about it do you.

Listen, if you are going to put words in my mouth, you may as well make it slanderous. What are you afraid of the actual truth of the matter? That's the way you roll isn't it? Or they called it trading in the old days.

Originally Posted by JoannaB

PPS: It occurred to me that while there are evil deeds, but are there any people who could not be redeemed given an eternity of trying to teach them good and given infinite love?

In Lucifers case, there is pretty much no-where to be redeemed to. He was among the highest before his fall already. Once you know something it cannot be unseen. The problem with the whole time to be saved thing is that, there is no such thing as time in reality. You are either saved or you aren't. Time doesn't exist once you are judged.

And you do realize Joanna that the only reason we have a way out of this is because of gods love in the first place, Jesus's sacrifice. If that was not completed, we would have no hope of redemption either, because we were already deceived by Lucifer because he wanted earth instead of us. He has hi-jacked our earth out of jealousy of what was given to us.

But, we are in the process of taking it back. He's trying to hold on to it.