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    Thread: God is the null hypothesis

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      God is the null hypothesis

      I'll try make this as simple as possible.

      In order to assume God isn't real you have to disprove these facts

      1) Infinity exists
      2) Possibility is real
      3) Therefore infinite possibility is real
      4) Therefore with infinite probability of anything as real the idea of an intelligent designer as creator is certain

      Now lets take what we know, to verify this

      If you start with nothing, can you end up with something? No.

      Can anything create itself? No
      Therefore something created the universe it didn't just fall into place on it's own.

      If something created the Universe, then that something is god because no other thing could create it unless it is defined as god.
      An infinitely powerful being is the only explanation that could cause something other than nothing to exist at the beginning.

      Done.
      Last edited by knight31; 06-12-2013 at 02:57 PM.

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      In order to assume God isn't real you have to disprove these facts
      No I don't.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zoth View Post
      No I don't.
      Try reading and understanding the post to understand why you DO need to refute what I said before you can assume god isn't real.

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      I'll try make this as simple as possible.

      In order to assume the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't real you have to disprove these facts

      1) Infinity exists
      2) Possibility is real
      3) Therefore infinite possibility is real
      4) Therefore with infinite probability of anything as real the idea of an intelligent designer as creator is certain

      Now lets take what we know, to verify this

      If you start with nothing, can you end up with something? No.

      Can anything create itself? No
      Therefore something created the universe it didn't just fall into place on it's own.

      If something created the Universe, then that something is god because no other thing could create it unless it is defined as god.
      An infinitely powerful being is the only explanation that could cause something other than nothing to exist at the beginning.


      Flying exists, and spaghetti exists. Therefore, flying spaghetti exists.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Flying exists, and spaghetti exists. Therefore, flying spaghetti exists
      So what?

      According to multiple worlds theory you are correct. The probability is always certain when you have infinity as your variable. But I don't really care about flying spaghetti. Do you?

      Scientific principles don't manifest on their own. Any scientific principle has always needed someone. And before the earth gravity didn't exist on earth. But you may say that gravity worked in other places, but that's besides the point because if the other things were not there to accommodate gravity it wouldn't actually be there. Scientific principles need something in order to exist. But god being an infinitely powerful being can overcome anything.

      So lets see, you have nothingness, in which to start your theory of evolution. And I have an infinitely powerful being in which to base my theory on.

      You have a way more limited premise to go on. You have nothing to work with. And I have infinite power and potential to work with.

      You are going to lose.
      Last edited by knight31; 06-12-2013 at 04:43 PM.

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      How did God overcome nothingness if he was not there in the first place? Are you saying he did something when he didn't exist?

      You have not disproven the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He is infinitely powerful.

      Scientific principles that exist outside of time and space do concern things, such as formats of universes.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      Therefore something created the universe it didn't just fall into place on it's own.
      Nothing in your words makes this statement true.


      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      If something created the Universe, then that something is god because no other thing could create it unless it is defined as god.
      An infinitely powerful being is the only explanation that could cause something other than nothing to exist at the beginning.

      Done.
      I get that you believe this....and certainly many people do...but that still doesn't prove it.

      Because we can't even yet comprehend existence and the reasons for it is not proof that an infinitely powerful being exists to create everything.

      Creation is mystifying and incredible but nowhere is there evidence of some all-powerful being overseeing the creation of the universe.

      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      According to multiple worlds theory you are correct. The probability is always certain when you have infinity as your variable.
      You mistake probability for factual existence. There is a probability that I am currently running around naked in the street while typing this but the probability is so extremely low that it can be discounted.

      Even with infinite possibilities and alternate worlds theories, the fact that a low probability exists for something to occur does not mean it is actually happening, or that an all-powerful being exists.

      We can imagine all the flying-spaghetti monsters and mystical beings we want but no amount of infinite probabilities can guarantee certainty of existence beyond our ability to imagine them.

      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      Scientific principles don't manifest on their own. Any scientific principle has always needed someone. And before the earth gravity didn't exist on earth. But you may say that gravity worked in other places, but that's besides the point because if the other things were not there to accommodate gravity it wouldn't actually be there. Scientific principles need something in order to exist. But god being an infinitely powerful being can overcome anything.

      So lets see, you have nothingness, in which to start your theory of evolution. And I have an infinitely powerful being in which to base my theory on.

      You have a way more limited premise to go on. You have nothing to work with. And I have infinite power and potential to work with.

      You are going to lose.

      You claim Universal Mind has nothing to work with but you have no more to work with yourself. There is no sign saying, "This way to the Infinitely Powerful Being."

      Your analogy of gravity not existing unless something is there to cause it to exist doesn't even apply to the discussion and still provides no evidence to support your claims and beliefs.


      There is nothing wrong with your beliefs. You're allowed to have them, we all are...but supporting your argument with the premise of infinite probability isn't evidence of anything other than a willingness to believe in something no one has ever seen and which no evidence exists to prove or disprove the idea.

      I think this would be a great discussion if you provided something more substantial than pointing your finger at people and saying, "You're wrong!"
      Last edited by melanieb; 06-12-2013 at 05:26 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags
      Sageous likes this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      How did God overcome nothingness if he was not there in the first place? Are you saying he did something when he didn't exist?

      You have not disproven the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He is infinitely powerful.

      Scientific principles that exist outside of time and space do concern things, such as formats of universes.

      God is the alpha and omega, so god was there.

      The flying spaghetti monster could only be as powerful as god decided. I don't have to disprove it exists. You are the one that has to explain how something came from nothing. Not me. It doesn't matter how many outrageous creatures you think of, My idea still trumps it all without a need to disprove your ideas.

      In the face of nothingness, not even any principles could exist cause then that would be something.

      Explain to me again how something evolves from nothing?
      Last edited by knight31; 06-12-2013 at 05:36 PM.

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      There is a probability that I am currently running around naked in the street while typing this but the probability is so extremely low that it can be discounted.
      Incorrect in a parallel Universe that is identical to this, the only thing different is that you are running around the street naked right now. That is 100% certain.

      no amount of infinite probabilities
      You don't seem to understand the concept of infinity here. Endless potential of something happening means that sooner of later any probability will happen. In other words infinite possibility. Which includes God as the intelligent designer. In fact that is the only sensible explanation for how things exist.

      the premise of infinite probability isn't evidence of anything other than a willingness to believe in something no one has ever seen and which no evidence exists to prove or disprove the idea.
      No it's a basic mathematical certainty that we can be sure of. Infinite equals certainty of 1. That's the probability of anything happening under infinity. We know it exists because we have mathematics.

      And every time you mention the word "evidence" the burden is on you to be specific about what type of evidence you require, else what you are referring to cannot be known unless you clarify your conditions for the 'evidence' which is your job and not mine.
      Last edited by knight31; 06-12-2013 at 05:58 PM.

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      I think my symbolic logic professor would have a heart attack if he saw this thread.
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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      God is the alpha and omega, so god was there.

      The flying spaghetti monster could only be as powerful as god decided. I don't have to disprove it exists. You are the one that has to explain how something came from nothing. Not me. It doesn't matter how many outrageous creatures you think of, My idea still trumps it all without a need to disprove your ideas.

      In the face of nothingness, not even any principles could exist cause then that would be something.

      Explain to me again how something evolves from nothing?
      You said God overcame nothing. Doesn't that mean God came from nothing? You are the one promoting that hypothesis.

      There was never nothing. There was always the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster, then there were always scientific principles. However, you have yet to disprove the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Your own argument can be used to argue for his existence.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      1) Infinity exists
      2) Possibility is real
      3) Therefore infinite possibility is real
      1) Nonsense exists.
      2) OP is real.
      3) Therefore nonsensical OP is real.

      Done.
      Universal Mind, Sageous and Zoth like this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      1) Nonsense exists.
      2) OP is real.
      3) Therefore nonsensical OP is real.

      Done.
      congrats, you gave us the first song of this thread.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      There was never nothing.
      If you admit there was never nothing, then you are pretty screwed, cause you have no chance but to accept what "was never nothing" and the nature of that "never nothing" You would inevitably have to conclude it was something with the potential to create infinite possibility of what we have. The only thing that fits into that category is an infinitely powerful being that we would call god.

      There is no getting out of this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      God is the alpha and omega, so god was there.

      My idea still trumps it all without a need to disprove your ideas.
      Notice the key words here: "My idea"

      I have some ideas but believing in them won't make them exist.

      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      In the face of nothingness, not even any principles could exist cause then that would be something.

      Explain to me again how something evolves from nothing?
      You pulled this IDEA from nothing...why don't you explain it to us?

      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      Incorrect in a parallel Universe that is identical to this, the only thing different is that you are running around the street naked right now. That is 100% certain.
      What makes this certain?



      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      You don't seem to understand the concept of infinity here. Endless potential of something happening means that sooner of later any probability will happen. In other words infinite possibility. Which includes God as the intelligent designer. In fact that is the only sensible explanation for how things exist.

      My mind has infinite possibility to imagine things but that won't make them be true. You confuse probability and possibility with what actually occurs.


      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      No it's a basic mathematical certainty that we can be sure of. Infinite equals certainty of 1. That's the probability of anything happening under infinity. We know it exists because we have mathematics.
      Again, nothing more than a possibility of a probability, not evidence to show it exists.

      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      And every time you mention the word "evidence" the burden is on you to be specific about what type of evidence you require, else what you are referring to cannot be known unless you clarify your conditions for the 'evidence' which is your job and not mine.

      I ask for evidence that is "evident" and "understandable" to all people. I ask for something observable that all people could agree and simply understand. A road-sign or picture of the flying spaghetti monster would be nice.

      What evidence do you have, other than some words written long ago by several human beings?


      A magical gold-plated chicken-nugget shat out by the infinitely-powerful being (or flying spaghetti monster) would be more than enough evidence for me.

      Sageous likes this.

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      Quote Originally Posted by melanieb View Post
      Notice the key words here: "My idea"

      I have some ideas but believing in them won't make them exist.
      That's a good idea for you to have, and just as well that you have that idea I think.


      You pulled this IDEA from nothing...why don't you explain it to us?
      Why don't you explain your entire existence that came from nothing.

      My mind has infinite possibility to imagine things but that won't make them be true. You confuse probability and possibility with what actually occurs.
      They don't come true because god does not will it to become true. If god agreed to accept whatever request you had. God would grant said request. But since you don't believe in god you have no chance of that happening. So you are correct. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

      Again, nothing more than a possibility of a probability, not evidence to show it exists.
      In probability theory 100% means it will happen. That's as much as certain as you can be. If something has full chance (infinite chance) of happening. It will, is, does, and can, has, and will to come. And there is nothing you can do about it.

      I ask for evidence that is "evident" and "understandable" to all people. I ask for something observable that all people could agree and simply understand. A road-sign or picture of the flying spaghetti monster would be nice.
      How about the Universe? That's observable if you open your eyes. How much more understandable can you get? It's up to you to understand something. I can't make you understand.

      If you want a picture of a spaghetti monster. Here is one.

      tumblr_mebtk1ovED1rle5hho1_1280.jpg

      See if you are specific enough, you can get it.


      What evidence do you have, other than some words written long ago by several human beings?
      The existence of the Universe instead of nothingness, is evidence of it.


      A magical gold-plated chicken-nugget shat out by the infinitely-powerful being (or flying spaghetti monster) would be more than enough evidence for me.
      In another parallel Universe it already happened though. If you want a gold nugget ask for one, but oh wait you can't ask for one from god because you don't believe in god to ask for it. I guess you are not going to get evidence, other than what I have told you and if you don't understand it you will never find god. You will refuse to believe and then be condemned. Don't think that god will sit around waiting for you to believe, he will simply condemn you. If on the day of your death the decision is condemnation, that judgement will be with you for eternity. So in all eternity god will ignore you forever. That's your preference? Once you are judged you cannot be unjudged again. This is in regards to your eternal soul. So think about it carefully.
      Last edited by knight31; 06-12-2013 at 06:52 PM.

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      Which brings us to the second clip. It's all planned you see by god.


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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      If You would inevitably have to conclude it was something with the potential to create infinite possibility of what we have. The only thing that fits into that category is an infinitely powerful being that we would call god.
      How do you figure that? I say it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Prove me wrong.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      How do you figure that? I say it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Prove me wrong.
      It's not a game. You don't even believe in the flying spaghetti monster. So your statement is infact invalid. If you honesty thought that the flying Spaghetti monster was god than the flying spaghetti monster shall rule over you. I'm not even arguing with you, simply choose your demon, if you don't choose god.

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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      It's not a game. You don't even believe in the flying spaghetti monster. So your statement is infact invalid. If you honesty thought that the flying Spaghetti monster was god than the flying spaghetti monster shall rule over you. I'm not even arguing with you, simply choose your demon, if you don't choose god.
      I don't have to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster for my challenge to stand. It stands. Prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not the infinitely powerful creator of the universe.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


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      So many philosophers have tried to use logic to either prove or disprove the existence of God beyond doubt, and they have all failed. That is because belief in God requires a leap of faith and is not based on logic alone, and if one is not willing to make that leap of faith, there is room for doubt, because this is not a question to be solved or dismissed by logic alone.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      I don't have to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster for my challenge to stand. It stands. Prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not the infinitely powerful creator of the universe.
      164672_572663489432075_878577214_n.jpg

      Last edited by knight31; 06-12-2013 at 07:54 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      In another parallel Universe it already happened though. If you want a gold nugget ask for one, but oh wait you can't ask for one from god because you don't believe in god to ask for it. I guess you are not going to get evidence, other than what I have told you and if you don't understand it you will never find god. You will refuse to believe and then be condemned. Don't think that god will sit around waiting for you to believe, he will simply condemn you. If on the day of your death the decision is condemnation, that judgement will be with you for eternity. So in all eternity god will ignore you forever. That's your preference? Once you are judged you cannot be unjudged again. This is in regards to your eternal soul. So think about it carefully.

      I never said I didn't believe in God...not once.

      I think my concept of God differs from yours. Mine isn't so judgmental. In fact, your God reminds me of you.
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      Quote Originally Posted by melanieb View Post
      I never said I didn't believe in God...not once.

      I think my concept of God differs from yours. Mine isn't so judgmental. In fact, your God reminds me of you.
      There is only one god to judge both of us. It doesn't matter what you or I think. It only matters what the holy spirit says through me.

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      Quote Originally Posted by knight31 View Post
      It only matters what the holy spirit says through me.
      So you're a prophet now?

      Seriously why do you keep making these threads? There has to be a better platform for trying to convert people.
      sivason likes this.

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