What r u feelings towards exorcisms?

Haha!
ok so i have been an active Christian my whole life. so i have of course believed in possession of the devil... or his evil minions sorta speak... i always believed they happened, but not very often.

Now that i have gotton older & become more independent & started getting my bachlors in Pyschology i am finding myself 2 disbelief possession by the devil all 2gether. mainly because most incidents that have happened can be explained by mentel illness over silly devil ideas... (especially the case on the new movie - "The Exorcism Of Emily Rose - which wasn't even her real name...)

i have quite a bit of interest in studying the subject & would like 2 know anyone's feelings on the matter...

i dont know weather or not it is real but i have told the devil myself that he is free to possess me anytime he wants apperantly and that hasent happened yet.

personly i dont beleive in exorcisms if a person thinks they are possesed or is told they are and they beleive in it they will most likely here voices (coming from themselves) and see every bad thought in there heads as coming from the devil

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Originally posted by Girismyleader
Haha!
ok so i have been an active Christian my whole life. so i have of course believed in possession of the devil... or his evil minions sorta speak... i always believed they happened, but not very often.

Now that i have gotton older & become more independent & started getting my bachlors in Pyschology i am finding myself 2 disbelief possession by the devil all 2gether. mainly because most incidents that have happened can be explained by mentel illness over silly devil ideas... (especially the case on the new movie - \"The Exorcism Of Emily Rose - which wasn't even her real name...)

i have quite a bit of interest in studying the subject & would like 2 know anyone's feelings on the matter...

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I must speak with all humility; knowing what it means to walk as a solider, that has come up through the ranks of God’s army. There are forces beyond the realm of human understanding which are not for the faint of heart, and which are not to be taken lightly.

Many things “are” a result of the human mental condition without a doubt. But I now speak to you as a witness of things and forces which are beyond man’s mere mental confines. There are things which I must state truthfully that are” evil” in nature, and they have a purpose.

And until one knows that purpose one should “not” toy with them, unless you are called of God to do so. Remember those in Paul’s day who tried to cast evil out of someone? Which had no business doing so? They themselves were torn asunder, because they were not call of God to do so.

Exorcists and Exorcisms are for those who know who they are in God. And who are called to do so.

The Rev.

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Originally posted by Redeyedwolfking
i dont know weather or not it is real but i have told the devil myself that he is free to possess me anytime he wants apperantly and that hasent happened yet.

personly i dont beleive in exorcisms if a person thinks they are possesed or is told they are and they beleive in it they will most likely here voices (coming from themselves) and see every bad thought in there heads as coming from the devil

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Be careful what you wish for!

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Originally posted by Redeyedwolfking

if a person thinks they are possesed or is told they are and they beleive in it they will most likely here voices (coming from themselves) and see every bad thought in there heads as coming from the devil

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As i have gone thro studying past cases of exorcisms i have found myself 2 conclude that the ones who claim 2 be possessed r the ones w/the mentle disorders, or people seeking attention. The thing about possession is u dun know it is happening... u have no control of ur body or thought... that's what possession is... & yes there have been past cases of people who become possessed & have no memory after the exorcism is suppossedly successful & completed. also leading 2 the conclusion that possession most likely does happen every now & then...

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Originally posted by Awaken4e1

Be careful what you wish for!

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haha i must agree. Appearantly after the research i'v done it seems the only way 2 be possessed is actually 2 want & ask of it...

I have dealt with many cases of demonic influence, and there is an all too common thread in each case. There was an entertainment of a specific behavior which gave an opening into the mind of the one who became possessed.

And it was not just a mental condition. There is a process to becoming over taken by an evil influence. First there must be an exposure to the element of evil, it maybe something which is thought to be harmless at the time.

Then, there is an open entertainment of the evil, to keep it around. Then that entertainment became an obsession. Many young people are “obsessed” and have no idea that they are at the verge of full blow possession; I will not go into “all that” now, sufficed to say there is much darkness being entertained in our young people today.

Then at the point of obsession, then, there is a shift in behavior to give rise to a lost of identity. I sure we’ve all heard the expression “a mind numbed robot” in these types of cases where evil is involved that statement becomes the reality. They become entirely different personalities.

The Rev.

As u went thro describing the processes of posession, more of it seemed 2 be referring 2 influence over the actual posession itself. For example - the becoming obbsessed w/evil w/out realizing... that can happen 2 anyone, not just those who r being possessed.
it seems 2 me that u have more experience w/the influence before the possession actually consumes & starts.

There are stages to true "possession”
Follow the steps:
1. Exposure to the evil (Making own to it of your openness.)
2. Entertainment (To keep the spirit around.)
3. Engrossment (Full blow obsession of that entertainment.)
4. Emersion (The involuntary lost of one’s identity to the evil.)
5. Possession.

Involvement is only required when possession has manifested, obsession is not an actionable event, only possession is.



The Rev.

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Originally posted by Girismyleader


haha i must agree. Appearantly after the research i'v done it seems the only way 2 be possessed is actually 2 want & ask of it...

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There is a transition which takes place within the mind of the “obsessed.”
It is a very subtle change in relation to the amount of interaction with the spirit by comparison. Between steps 4 and 5 of the pervious post. Can be, long and drawn out, or very fast given the venerability of the personality of the one obsessing.

The Rev.

Have u ever particpated in giving an exoricism?

& where u say - Emersion (The involuntary lost of one’s identity to the evil.) - i was always taught that one chooses his way 2 possession.

Yes many times,
Possession is a temptation to those who are not able to discern the purpose of the spirit influencing the one obsessed.
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And every time u have helped in performing an exoricism u have firmly believed that the person was possessed by a demonic force?

Well, there is such a thing as exorcism, as I understand, but it's not exactly a couple of mixed-age priests driving out a demon...in regards to these "true" exorcisms, they are necessary, though they may seem fruitless.

...does anyone want to hear what I have to say? 'Cuz if no one does, then I won't say anything else about it.

Yes,
The Evidence was overwhelming to those who knew what to look for.
Each spirit carries specific characteristics. In most cases the spirit would be proud to identify itself.

The Rev.

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Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Yes,
The Evidence was overwhelming to those who knew what to look for.
Each spirit carries specific characteristics. In most cases the spirit would be proud to identify itself.

The Rev.

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See this is very interesting 2 me. Many of the priests who work in exorcisms inside the Catholic Church have said that they do about 70 exorcisms a year & mainly all of the patients... sorta speak... r not possessed & just need a long walk & a glass of water. Many of 2day's exorcists admit that possession is highly unlikely & only happens occasionally

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Originally posted by Muhjah
Well, there is such a thing as exorcism, as I understand, but it's not exactly a couple of mixed-age priests driving out a demon...in regards to these \"true\" exorcisms, they are necessary, though they may seem fruitless.

...does anyone want to hear what I have to say? 'Cuz if no one does, then I won't say anything else about it.

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Oh please. I am very interested in anyone's opinion on the matter. feel free 2 say whatever u want :P

to be possesed by a devil or demon would mean that the "spirit" is stronger than you. now to believe in demons and the likes, then you have to have some religous education and you know that God gave us all power over "dark forces" . so is possesion even possible?

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Originally posted by Girismyleader+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Girismyleader)</div>

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Oh please. I am very interested in anyone's opinion on the matter. feel free 2 say whatever u want :P[/b]

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Oh OK, thanks. :D

<!--QuoteBegin-scorpifly
to be possesed by a devil or demon would mean that the \"spirit\" is stronger than you. now to believe in demons and the likes, then you have to have some religous education and you know that God gave us all power over \"dark forces\" . so is possesion even possible?

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Well, see, in the beginning, there was just light and darkness. The light, or energy, was what is called The Source of All Life (TSOAL), which some people also refer to as "God", with a capital "G". While the darkness was just a void -- the Void, also caled the Darkness -- for a time, tiny atoms of TSOAL broke off and were transmogrified into literally dark energy, called the "Mists of Darkness", or just "Mists". Now, in their transformation, the collective Mists somehow became conscious. Now, time does not exist in this extra-cosmic plane, but the Mists were created prior to the Universe, also called the Lighted Universe (LU), which later came about as a somewhat larger piece of TSOAL that broke off and transmuted in the Void to become essentially the Universe we know today, with its specific governing physical laws.

Before the Universe transmuted, however, a tiny piece of it broke off -- porportional to its division from TSOAL -- and that piece became the first lower-level deity, from which humans eventually descended; that is a story in itself.

Anyway, so in the beginning of humanity, there was a force called the Yetzer haRa, or "Evil Inclination". However, this entity, also created from energy that budded from TSOAL, was rather benign; its only purpose was to tempt. Once it caught the attention of a human being, it left, and went to find another. Now, since TSOAL was creative by nature, the Mists was destructive. In order to destroy the Universe, the Mists needed to penetrate it. However, the Universe was protected by a residual light, an energy now called the String of Life, and without a base within the Universe in which to ground itself, the Mists could not permeate it. Now after a period, the Yetzer haRa would become weak, and would make its way back to TSOAL to recharge. Seeing its opportunity, the Mists attacked the Yetzer haRa as it returned to the Void from the Universe. The two entities then fused, creating the force known as "Evil", whose purpose is to tempt and destroy. After it provokes its target, it does not simply move on, but absorbs itself into said being. While humans still do retain a very minimal amount of energy, the soul, inherited from the deities that were their ancestors, who of course were descended from TSOAL -- all humans have a little SOAL in them, get it? :P -- their porous, fleshy bodies can easily store vast densities of Evil. The only thing that can repel Evil is pure SOAL energy. Humans can increase their energy store, but most don't, and don't even know about it. So they are weak against the Evil. The longer the Evil stays inside a body, the more it will homogenize itself with the flesh, poisoning the mind, the reasoning and the personality.

The Mists still pursue total penetration of the Universe. Since its creation and evolution, its String of Life has split into several Threads which wind through all the cosmoses, and create a fairly strong veil of energy to keep the Evil out. This veil is not completely invincible, however, and tiny wisps of Evil will push their way through the infitesimal spaces in the veil.

...and that is why there is Evil in the world. To exorcise it, you must counter it with an equal amount of light energy, of which there is very little of (therefore, only deities or Key Figures can do exorcisms -- or destroy the base, i.e. the body.

On an interesting note, consciousness, or sapience, and the will to destroy, or at least be a catalyst to the naturally occuring entropy, are essentially directly linked.

Wow. Lots of response to this subject. Anyway, personally: Why sell your soul to the devil, Redeyedwolfking? Rent it and charge interest! LOTS of interest! And meanwhile, take a page out of the cellphone company's books and charge early termination fees, then put a cap on how many minutes he can use! Show him the true counter to evil: CAPITALISM! :D

Very interesting thread. I think the idea of possession comes from the days when mentally ill people, who are now known to have neurotransmitter imbalances, were thought to be possessed by evil spirits and had holes put in their heads so the evil spirits would come out. The right antipsychotic medication would have driven out the "evil spirits" without killing the "possessed" person.

I don't know if I ever could believe the bs that were demonstrated in exorcism movies like the exorcist or emily rose. If it really happened, I take that back.

The mind is a powerful agent, whether for good or bad. We don't have to talk in absolute terms. The whole exorcism itself, even appearing real to all parties, may just be a placebo effect on something considered a mental illness. We all know that beating somebody with a club is motivation enough to get them to do a certain something. Similarly, even if Priests don't really have exorcism powers, their very presence in the eyes of a "possessed" person already grants a humungous hope of exorcising this demon, whether it really be a spirit or just a mental derangement. Like dream characters in a dream..it wasn't real, but it was a real experience.

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Originally posted by AirRick101
I don't know if I ever could believe the bs that were demonstrated in exorcism movies like the exorcist or emily rose. If it really happened, I take that back.

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Heres the thing - it did happen. i looked up the case. But it didn't happen how the damn movie is leading people 2 believe it happened.

"Emily" (which i remind u wasn't her real name) suffered from epilepsy & mulitiple personality syndrome - her doctors, & even the Roman Catholic church itself said she was ill & needed help. That's why her priests & parents were thrown in jail... as they deserved... seeing as how she starved 2 death because "the demons would not allow her 2 eat." The Roman Catholic Church didn't even pass it as an ok for the priests 2 perform an exorcism. & they @ least should have forced fed her 2 save her... the case is a very interesting story. So is the actual tale on the li'll boy that the first exorcist movie in 73 was based on. If anyone's interested i can get some good non by-ist links on the actual "true" case matters.

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Originally posted by Universal Mind
Very interesting thread. I think the idea of possession comes from the days when mentally ill people, who are now known to have neurotransmitter imbalances, were thought to be possessed by evil spirits and had holes put in their heads so the evil spirits would come out. The right antipsychotic medication would have driven out the \"evil spirits\" without killing the \"possessed\" person.

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I agree w/part of this post. but after doing a lot of research on past cases u'll be surprised on some things that actually happen that can't really be explained. Like that of the St. Louis boy who spoke in ancient Latin even though he had never learned any of it & was far 2 young for anyone 2 understand him...
freaky stuff :P

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Originally posted by Tsen
Wow. Lots of response to this subject. Anyway, personally: Why sell your soul to the devil, Redeyedwolfking? Rent it and charge interest! LOTS of interest! And meanwhile, take a page out of the cellphone company's books and charge early termination fees, then put a cap on how many minutes he can use! Show him the true counter to evil: CAPITALISM! :D

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... hhhhmmm what 2 reply on this one... Tsen u silly boy u. The thing w/possession is yes maybe the individual does influence the evil 2 true possession. what about those who have it hard & suffer from eplipsy, TICs, MPS, etc. Not only this u know how many times a church will randomly grab a boy w/ADHD & start doing an exorcism because "he's different"? they dun' understand the real world has people existing w/actual chemical imbalances. I have done a lot of research on this matter for a project in psychology & u will be damn surprised how many people have been seriously beaten & killed because people get carried away believing those who r "different" r possessed.

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Originally posted by Muhjah

...and that is why there is Evil in the world. To exorcise it, you must counter it with an equal amount of light energy, of which there is very little of (therefore, only deities or Key Figures can do exorcisms -- or destroy the base, i.e. the body.

On an interesting note, consciousness, or sapience, and the will to destroy, or at least be a catalyst to the naturally occuring entropy, are essentially directly linked.

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Very interesting thoughts... hehe u totally got my brain turning :P

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Originally posted by scorpifly
to be possesed by a devil or demon would mean that the \"spirit\" is stronger than you. now to believe in demons and the likes, then you have to have some religous education and you know that God gave us all power over \"dark forces\" . so is possesion even possible?

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It wouldn't mean the spirit is stronger than u. 2 become possessed one TRULY has 2 want 2 become possessed. when that happens u have no control whatsoever over ur body, thoughts, actions, sayings, basically u aren't there inside. For example, the case w/the boy in St. Louis didn't remember anything relating 2 his possession after his soul was finally revived.
The thing w/Satan is, if u give him power 2 own u he's not gonna let u have any say, Satan doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything. haha just remember that kiddies.

Then are Satanists necessarily controlled by the Devil, hmm? I don't really know if it is possible to sell one's soul, in layman deliberate terms. If anything, it's symbolic to when people surrender to evil desires that harm others, is one labelled as sold to the devil. And who's to say that the devil has hold on someone forever? That's what exorcisms are for! So kids, if you see people being mean to you, stick a cross in their face and yell at the demons in them (they'll really think you're yelling at them), and they will become good. Squirt your water bottle at them and declare it as holy water. I dont know, but Christian fanatics who can't relate to people are the best candidates for sociopaths... no, I'm not pointing at anyone here...but people who keep talking about God, and you can tell just by looking at them that they don't know what they're talking about...is really annoying and sad.

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Originally posted by AirRick101
Then are Satanists necessarily controlled by the Devil, hmm? I don't really know if it is possible to sell one's soul, in layman deliberate terms. If anything, it's symbolic to when people surrender to evil desires that harm others, is one labelled as sold to the devil. And who's to say that the devil has hold on someone forever? That's what exorcisms are for! So kids, if you see people being mean to you, stick a cross in their face and yell at the demons in them (they'll really think you're yelling at them), and they will become good. Squirt your water bottle at them and declare it as holy water. I dont know, but Christian fanatics who can't relate to people are the best candidates for sociopaths... no, I'm not pointing at anyone here...but people who keep talking about God, and you can tell just by looking at them that they don't know what they're talking about...is really annoying and sad.

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WTF r u talking about? i was pting out how Satan doesn't give a fuck about any of us & the "basic" beliefs on exorcisms, may i remind u that it is the Christians who believe in & perform the exorcisms not the "Satanists." I'm not a Roman Catholic, nor do i fully believe in exorcisms, did u not read my quote 2 Tsen on how it is way carried away? u honestly have no idea what i'm talking about in these posts if u think i'm telling children 2 go hold crosses 2 people, i for one dun support crosses. I'm here gathering more information for my project. U should read the posts up above before u try slamming a reply like that in my face buddy.

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Originally posted by Girismyleader


I agree w/part of this post. but after doing a lot of research on past cases u'll be surprised on some things that actually happen that can't really be explained. Like that of the St. Louis boy who spoke in ancient Latin even though he had never learned any of it & was far 2 young for anyone 2 understand him...
freaky stuff :P

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... so they say... I also read about a chimpanzee that went to college and wrote term papers. Elvis Presley has been spotted since 1977 in small towns all over the U.S., according to the tabloids. If you read it in a book, then somebody was making money for saying it. I say... follow the money.

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Originally posted by Universal Mind

... so they say... I also read about a chimpanzee that went to college and wrote term papers. Elvis Presley has been spotted since 1977 in small towns all over the U.S., according to the tabloids. If you read it in a book, then somebody was making money for saying it. I say... follow the money.

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Um well these were copies from the hospital in St. Louis that the boy was @...
I'm not talking about some silly net findings i read on this bud. I reserached this for my major class. I have real info. from the kids doctors, psychiatrists, all that...
Copies from hospitals rn't gonna bull shit u babe, if they do then by all means r world is going 2 hell w/deep lies.

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Originally posted by Girismyleader


Um well these were copies from the hospital in St. Louis that the boy was @...
I'm not talking about some silly net findings i read on this bud. I reserached this for my major class. I have real info. from the kids doctors, psychiatrists, all that...
Copies from hospitals rn't gonna bull shit u babe, if they do then by all means r world is going 2 hell w/deep lies.

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How do you know they are the real copies? I know you didn't have the originals, so what did you have? Was it a book with supposed copies of the originals? I'm not calling you stupid or a liar. I am calling greedy writers full of B.S. They're all over the place.

Even if it did happen, perhaps the boy had learned some Latin sentences. Maybe he was put up to it, by a, say, full of B.S. writer? If not, then maybe he had psychic powers. Maybe the collective unconscious is a reality. There is a long list of possibilities other than some non-material juvenile delinquent of consciousness screwing up the lives of humans just to be a jerk. I am a million light years from not thinking that such a concept is absurd.

You have an insecure disposition to believe that I was mocking you. Clearly you were waiting for somebody to fire you up. I'm sorry, I was making another one of my crude jokes, to chip off the crusty taboo on the subject.

But please, fucking read my post too. I didn't say that Satanists were the ones performing exorcisms. but I referring to Satanists as the so-called religionists. They are people who believe they are doing the way of Satan, and they turn out to be all right people who aren't all crazy. Satan is just a religiously convenient way to label and characterize anything that's bad to human conscience. But of course, it does not come without a history. There's more traces of fucked up Christians than fucked up Satanists...it's the personal cultivation and interpretation that really matters.

You think you know everything when you question my intelligence yourself, saying that I have no idea what you're talking about. Be careful when you try to speak for others when you don't know them.

Lol.... Satanists may be alright people but deep down they must be idiots for believing Satan is gonna love them... & i never said Christians were great people, i'm not as ignorant as u think i am

If u say so. Likewise, we Christians believe in just as intangible of a promise.

2ndly, Satanists don't take their definition of Satan from the Christian Bible, so that nullifies the attempt to accuse them on their own grounds. You should study it, then I will have less reason to think you are ignorant.

I used 2 be w/a group of Satanists & was one myself bud... I'v wittnessed Satan. & i'm not as ignorant as u think i am. I've been thro more than u actually think. There was a time when those people were all i had as my family, u simply think i'm ignorant & i'm saying random things that i'v learned thro others when i've experienced things myself & grown as an individual. U'd be surprised @ the life i've had 2 live @ my age. so dun go around thinking "i'm wanting someone 2 fire up on", i'm a very defensive person because i have 2 be for past reasons. & simply, i find u as the ignorant one.

Of all the "satanists” I have encountered, there is a very common thread noted in all of their activities, and that is: All of their focus is on the “Worship” of self!

The Rev.

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Originally posted by Awaken4e1
Of all the \"satanists” I have encountered, there is a very common thread noted in all of their activities, and that is: All of their focus is on the “Worship” of self!

The Rev.

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U r completly right. I never recieved any true help from those people, altho @ the time i thought they were all i had as help

I'm impressed if that's true, especially since we were pretty much deviating from the thread topic.

But, how does being a Satanist and being an "active Christian your whole life" tie together? I hope you are not trying to keep cooking stuff to defend your point. Everybody thinks that they've been through more than others would believe, it's not new. I think you may be exaggerating, but if not, please clarify.

Ok, it's hard to draw the line of what is an exorcism and what isn't. Possession is noted by some Christians even as the simple giving into a diabolical desire. And the freeing of the human soul from the evil spirit bind may as well be considered an "exorcism." An act of God, so be it. The type displayed in the media is very ritualistic, symbolic, and often requires a lot of recurring props, and most likely has no spiritualistic significance at all.

But shit, the movies are probably more scary than the real-life cases reported. Among the myriad of various sentient beings, I wouldn't leave out the possibility of such a possession. It's a very common sense phemonenon, it depends if you choose to characterize it, which is fine as well.

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Originally posted by AirRick101
I'm impressed if that's true, especially since we were pretty much deviating from the thread topic.

But, how does being a Satanist and being an \"active Christian your whole life\" tie together?

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All i have 2 say about this is that a lot of stuff happened in my past that i'm not 2 proud 2 admit. I have a very closed off past. By all means i actually think i'm starting 2 like u & actually could become friends w/u. if u would like 2 know i would actually tell u...

Hey, maybe later, then.

I haven't been Satanist, and I thought goths often acted very weird (sorry Paperdoll), but I've talked with very unusual people, and one close friend who might be considered the most "Pagan of all." But I've gone through stages of willingly wanting to become evil, because I was so sick of my goody-two-shoe life with my locally refined Christianity, and even screamed prayers of being sent to hell so that I could live my own selfish life (whoa, I guess I'm sharing quite a bit in public!) I have some things in the past I'm not too proud about either.

Anyway, I've had some crazy bouts, and it's sort of why I'm wishy washy on religion a bit, and am not sure where to stand. So I just give reflection. I think we can relate a lot. And, btw, I guess I can be ignorant, I've been called that more than once.

I agree. I think i can relate 2 u. I think we were both being ignorant in trying 2 frame the other for being ignorant... pluss we both enjoyed pissing eachother off w/these posts & making it go longer. i would actually like 2 talk 2 u about a lot'a things now because i think we have a lot in common which is why i think i hated u in the beginning :D

We should start PM'ing instead, I don't think people are interested in where this is going.

But then again, it's fun to watch threads where people bitch at each other...until tolerance and understanding becomes an element. :lol:

Um...you guys do know that the original "Chruch of Satan" was created by Anton LeVay as simply a mockery of the Christian Church? Hence, there is no such thing as "Satanism" or "Satanists"; nobody really believed any of that, they just chanted hyms to Lucifer to piss the Christians off, because the Devil was specifically their god of evil, and that's what LeVay was banking on.

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Originally posted by Muhjah
Um...you guys do know that the original \"Chruch of Satan\" was created by Anton LeVay as simply a mockery of the Christian Church? Hence, there is no such thing as \"Satanism\" or \"Satanists\"; nobody really believed any of that, they just chanted hyms to Lucifer to piss the Christians off, because the Devil was specifically their god of evil, and that's what LeVay was banking on.

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Yep got that. well not all that special info... but yeah... :P Pluss Satanists r just weird....

Grimslyleader, please respond to my last post. Thanks.

I don't believe in God (in the sense that "he" is some guy with human personality qualities, especially diagnosable narcissism with a need for constant admiration and severe anger management issues) or Satan. So from a totally outside view, I will say that Satanism is the stupidest religion I have ever heard of. (Anton LeVay started "The Church of Satan," not Satanism. That goes way back.) If you are going to believe in that type of stuff, why side with the idiot that thinks he can take on his infinitely powerful creator? What a dumbass. And who is dumb enough to trust the character who is supposed to be the malicious master of all supernatural con artists? Is it even possible to be more of a sucker than that?

Satanism & THE CHURCH OF SATAN... THAT I DO NOT BELONG 2... WHICH IS CONFUSING ALL OF U! is the damn stupidist religion in history.
i really didn't mean 2 be in that group & i feel purty humiliated in admitting that i was in that group once. but on the pluss side its when i was severly depressed & had no idea what i was doing in the 1st place.
As it goes for God, i can testify that he does exist, i've had way 2 many personal experiences where i've witnessed both God & Satan & i do know they r real people.

The Church of Satan and Satanism are the SAME DAMN THING! So will you two quit talking about that stuff already? Jebus...

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Originally posted by Girismyleader
As it goes for God, i can testify that he does exist, i've had way 2 many personal experiences where i've witnessed both God & Satan & i do know they r real people.

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What did Satan look like? I know many members of the Devil Clan, but I forget which one Satan is...

What was your experience with G-d, also? There is only one specific experience one can have of the true Almighty, so if yours was not this, then you may have only experienced a lesser deity.

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Originally posted by Universal Mind


How do you know they are the real copies? I know you didn't have the originals, so what did you have? Was it a book with supposed copies of the originals? I'm not calling you stupid or a liar. I am calling greedy writers full of B.S. They're all over the place.

Even if it did happen, perhaps the boy had learned some Latin sentences. Maybe he was put up to it, by a, say, full of B.S. writer? If not, then maybe he had psychic powers. Maybe the collective unconscious is a reality. There is a long list of possibilities other than some non-material juvenile delinquent of consciousness screwing up the lives of humans just to be a jerk. I am a million light years from not thinking that such a concept is absurd.

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I'm guessing u want me 2 reply 2 this post? sorry it has taken me so long 2 get back 2 the actual topic of this post. This post got way personal for a while & was making my mind go off in space. But just now i did plan on responding 2 this anyways...

Of course they were not the orignals, but they were actual copies. I believe them, because they were not written by an author sorta speak, they weren't written in a by-ist view 2 trick anyone into believing exorcisms, all that was documented was the syptoms of the boy, who treated him & what happened during his stay.
This boy wasn't speaking simple Latin sentences, he was speaking an old Latin language in full use of tounge where it was difficult for many 2 understand & translate. He also appeared very voilent & injured a doctor.
The strangest thing out of all this was before & after these incidents they never found a mentel disorder w/him... nor does this boy have any recollection of memory.
However, i am still in the stage where i am very confused upon possession & exorcisms all 2gether. My father has suppossedly dealt w/a possessed individual & i'm not even sure if i'm going on his words either.... i may soon review this case & conclude differently, as for now i believe that boy in St. Louis was possessed by some sort of evil, altho he is the only true case i believe so far into my studies...

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Originally posted by Muhjah
The Church of Satan and Satanism are the SAME DAMN THING! So will you two quit talking about that stuff already? Jebus...


What did Satan look like? I know many members of the Devil Clan, but I forget which one Satan is...

What was your experience with G-d, also? There is only one specific experience one can have of the true Almighty, so if yours was not this, then you may have only experienced a lesser deity.

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I NEVER SAW SATAN OMG! pluss i never said "Church of Satan!." & that wasn't the kid i was originally arguing w/anyones... pay attention, jebus on u for trying 2 back lash on things u can't even get straight.

I experienced more of his son Christ than of God himself, it was a very personal experience that happened 2 me before i attempted suicide, i suffer from clinical deppression, which sadly i inherited, only it wouldn't have come thro if i wouldn't have been raped @ the age of 14. After that i became severly depressed, 2 cut things short, i got kicked out of my house & disowned by my family, moved in w/a friend who was a Goth & joined his group of friends that u would call "Satanists" only one worshiped Marilyn Manson... i'm guessing i spelled his first name wrong... more than Satan...
i've tried committing suicide more than once, was a serious cutter, & i do know it was Satan i felt during those times & heard in my head. I am not some nut case who has seen God or Satan tho. if u think i'm crazy u can go ask the hospital, i've been commited 2 an insane asslym because people have thought so & every time i'v checked out clear. I've been checked out for every mentel disorder u can think of & unfortuantly for me i'm a normal sane being, i've been thro a lot of tests after everything i've been thro. & i'm damn well ready 2 testify my truth that i've experienced...
how more personal can it get?

I think that the most successful “Christians” are those who have tasted everything the world has to offer. Take a look at Paul, he was a high ranking official within the hierarchy of the church, who believed he was doing God’s work when he was sent with authority from the church to murder “Christians”, he also was a witness to the first Christian martyrs execution. He presided over the event, and held the cloaks of those who were doing the stoning of Steven. But through all of those things God still called him to the greatest position of Apostle. To him who overcomes shall be granted to sit with me in my throne. So, we must overcome to be an Overcomer!

P.S. The more you overcome the greater rank you will have in God’s army…



The Rev.

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Originally posted by Muhjah
The Church of Satan and Satanism are the SAME DAMN THING! So will you two quit talking about that stuff already? Jebus...

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That's false. Anton LaVay did not invent Satanism. The Church of Satan is a proper noun, a name for a specific organization. Satanism is the worship of Satan, which goes back thousands of years. Anton LaVay does not go back thousands of years. He is alive right now, or at least he was alive recently enough to indoctrinate Marilyn Manson.

Grimslyleader, what exactly did you look at to determine what was in the documents? How do you know they were true copies?

I have to admit, I can vibe with a lot of this. I, too, was shipped to a mental hospital after beingsuicidal (stupid me, I let the cops find out in desperation after running out on a therapy appointment) and I lost control from then on until I could come up with a rational testimony and why I should be let out early. I swear, those mental clinics keep you so trapped, and there is nothing productive to do, just have group meetings led by leaders unsure of how to act, watch movies all day, walk back and forth to the main room or your dorm, stuck on the higher floor of the hospital. It's worse than a church retreat.

But even after all that, I'm not really planning to claim some beautiful newfound personal truth, unless I've yet to do that. I couldn't really find one, and it's hard for me cuz this is a time where i don't seem to be learning from my mistakes, especially since I don't know what they are anymore.

Anything can be real to any one person, and I especially used to know what it was like to see Satan act. It's harder now, mabye because I've blended in a lot with the world. But there comes a time where you get the feeling that maybe you should turn back, yet that feels impossible for some reason. It's the most frightening, to be trapped in your very own life.

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Originally posted by Awaken4e1
I think that the most successful “Christians” are those who have tasted everything the world has to offer. Take a look at Paul, he was a high ranking official within the hierarchy of the church, who believed he was doing God’s work when he was sent with authority from the church to murder “Christians”, he also was a witness to the first Christian martyrs execution. He presided over the event, and held the cloaks of those who were doing the stoning of Steven. But through all of those things God still called him to the greatest position of Apostle. To him who overcomes shall be granted to sit with me in my throne. So, we must overcome to be an Overcomer!

P.S. The more you overcome the greater rank you will have in God’s army…
The Rev.

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Hopefully this says good for me. i reconverted after i found Christ. I was born a christian, left it @ my own will @ the age of 14, rejoined @ age 16 by own will. i find my testimony 2 be one of the strongest u can find these days

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Originally posted by Universal Mind


That's false. Anton LaVay did not invent Satanism. The Church of Satan is a proper noun, a name for a specific organization. Satanism is the worship of Satan, which goes back thousands of years. Anton LaVay does not go back thousands of years. He is alive right now, or at least he was alive recently enough to indoctrinate Marilyn Manson.

Grimslyleader, what exactly did you look at to determine what was in the documents? How do you know they were true copies?

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Oooo SLAM! haha good one!

As for the copies, i'm really pretty sure that they r... it was in my university library that i found them & i had a professer helping me...

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Originally posted by AirRick101
I have to admit, I can vibe with a lot of this. I, too, was shipped to a mental hospital after beingsuicidal (stupid me, I let the cops find out in desperation after running out on a therapy appointment) and I lost control from then on until I could come up with a rational testimony and why I should be let out early. I swear, those mental clinics keep you so trapped, and there is nothing productive to do, just have group meetings led by leaders unsure of how to act, watch movies all day, walk back and forth to the main room or your dorm, stuck on the higher floor of the hospital. It's worse than a church retreat.

But even after all that, I'm not really planning to claim some beautiful newfound personal truth, unless I've yet to do that. I couldn't really find one, and it's hard for me cuz this is a time where i don't seem to be learning from my mistakes, especially since I don't know what they are anymore.

Anything can be real to any one person, and I especially used to know what it was like to see Satan act. It's harder now, mabye because I've blended in a lot with the world. But there comes a time where you get the feeling that maybe you should turn back, yet that feels impossible for some reason. It's the most frightening, to be trapped in your very own life.

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I know what u mean... i often find myself alone in a corner shaking & falling back 2 old habits. once cured u never really forget the memories, there r times when the anxiety & the depression builds back up & all u go back 2 is what u once knew.
Those times i was committed 2 the hospital were the worst of my life, they finally let me out after they would re test me over & over, i would refuse 2 vent on them, because i didn't trust them... but i can relate 2 u on those feelings

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Originally posted by Girismyleader


Hopefully this says good for me. i reconverted after i found Christ. I was born a christian, left it @ my own will @ the age of 14, rejoined @ age 16 by own will. i find my testimony 2 be one of the strongest u can find these days

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That is GREAT!
I commend you on your faith!

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Originally posted by Awaken4e1


That is GREAT!
I commend you on your faith!

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why thank u! :D
yes yes! every sunday u will find me @ church or later @ home reading in my scriptures...

[Edited for my being a total, selfish, dumbass...]

:damnit:

(deleted for the kindness showed up above, all is forgiven Muhjah)

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Originally posted by Girismyleader
Well that was way rude.
yeah fuck u u fucking bitch. i'm off this damn forum.

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:sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry:

Come on, don't be like that!

...please?

I'm posting this for everyone 2 see so people dun think i'm a bitch moron for leaving dreamviews, i want people 2 understand why i did....
u have no idea how bad that hurt.

the whole thing about me posting that was 2 prove 2 the people i wasn't making up a story of my life & how i found my religion & such, & admitting on a forum that u got raped isn't something u like people 2 know... i mean it took me forever 2 tell past bfs that. i seriously just got done bawling on the phone w/my bf on how much that stung my bones. there is nothing worse than admitting a personal story of that extant 2 have someone pick it a part piece by piece & slam it back in ur face.... i didn't even come clear after what heppened 2 me 'till i turned 16 which was 2 years after the rape... it hurts 2 even mention it. & it severely killed me 2 have u say those things. & i will not be a part of dreamviews any longer, nothing against anyone here, but against knowing how i slipped up... theres nothing that can change my mind. I PMd Seeker & hopefully he can delete all my posts cause it was plainly a mistake trying 2 stick up for myself in this topic of post

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Originally posted by Girismyleader
I'm posting this for everyone 2 see so people dun think i'm a bitch moron for leaving dreamviews, i want people 2 understand why i did....
u have no idea how bad that hurt.

the whole thing about me posting that was 2 prove 2 the people i wasn't making up a story of my life & how i found my religion & such, & admitting on a forum that u got raped isn't something u like people 2 know... i mean it took me forever 2 tell past bfs that. i seriously just got done bawling on the phone w/my bf on how much that stung my bones. there is nothing worse than admitting a personal story of that extant 2 have someone pick it a part piece by piece & slam it back in ur face.... i didn't even come clear after what heppened 2 me 'till i turned 16 which was 2 years after the rape... it hurts 2 even mention it. & it severely killed me 2 have u say those things. & i will not be a part of dreamviews any longer, nothing against anyone here, but against knowing how i slipped up... theres nothing that can change my mind. I PMd Seeker & hopefully he can delete all my posts cause it was plainly a mistake trying 2 stick up for myself in this topic of post

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If I'd been in your position, I probably would have done and said the same things to someone who said what I said. Everyone understands that.

See, I didn't understand what you were trying to do, so I didn't realize what I was doing, and how it could effect you.

...if you leave DreamViews, then I will leave DreamViews. I can't stay on and live with the guilt of having caused you to leave -- all because of me, of me being stubborn and impulsive and one-track-minded and all that shit.

It's no fault of yours, you did nothing wrong; I did everything wrong, it's all my fault, all of it.

...please come back. :cry: I'm so sorry...you don't understand, I can be so thick sometimes...I didn't even realize what I was saying...

Girismyleader I am not happy you are hurt, or want to, or have decided to leave dreamviews. but please reconsider.

If you read the scripture every night, you must want to listen to it. And some of the amazing truths that are within what is said. I beg you to understand this......

This is one of your great opportunitys. When you are fortunate enough to have trials put before you. Like when people hurt you deeply in this way. You must know what it means to be a follower of the god jesus is trying to make you see....it is such a great opportunity to prove yourself to the light. You understand how difficult it is to forgive someone for something like this. now are you great enough to follow in the masters example?

what did he say?

"If your brother sins, rebuke him, if he repents, forgive him. if he sins against you 7 times in one day, and each time he comes to you saying, 'I repent' (or forgive me, as mujah has just requested!) ' You must forgive him/her.

This is if you are living the truth that jesus spoke of. To be like him, to know what he knows. You must follow what he does.And how he lives and realize why. If you go against what he knows and lives as the truth. How can you say you are a follower, or that you even sup[port it, or are truly ready to. And that you even listen to what he says?

Ofcourse it is difficult and anything worth achieving is very difficult. But if you want the life and the light, and the 'eternal life' that he talks about. You will not do it by being resentful of muhjah. You will only be saved and rise where he is, by following him. then you can experience the freedom that he does. because you will realize how great and perfect it is to forgive someone and what it means to them. It is a great service. Just think about what muhjah is asking you. Satan never forgives, only takes away. God always forgives. And never ses no I will not forgive you because what you have done to me is not right. God does not care about that. only about the what will serve, and the greatest love. So which side are you on. if you take a side. Life or death. You know what you have to do to choose life.

But if you are not ready to do that and still must leave dv I understand. Just know that is the best thing to do. Forgive. Even if it is the most difficult thing. You will be so much greater for doing it. And to forget about this. And dont leave DV! cause we all would like you to stay here and it would be a shame to leave.

she is forgiven... she was forgiven right after it happened... thats not why i'm leaving

& thank u for such a kind reply... it made me smile
I loves oo

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all is forgiven Muhjah[/b]

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^I must have missed that bit. lol

ok after talking 2 some people here i think a lot of u r getting the wrong idea.
i have nothing against DV & nothing against the people here.
Please, it hurts me even more 2 know u guys think things like that... i'm not leaving over any of that, & i do forgive people... i'm not a hater... please dun think that of me... i'm all for forgiveness
i'm leaving over personal matters w/in myself

I have honored Girismyleader's request that her account be deleted.

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Originally posted by Seeker
I have honored Girismyleader's request that her account be deleted.

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:cry: :damnit: ....this is my fault...I am so sorry... :cry: :damnit:

I only stop checking this forum for only about a day and far out stuff happens, I scratch my head what did, and am curious the least bit what happened. I knew something when "Guest" was the name of the author of this board...what the hell?????!

Giris, you've been posting a long time here, did something happen?

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Originally posted by AirRick101
I only stop checking this forum for only about a day and far out stuff happens, I scratch my head what did, and am curious the least bit what happened. *I knew something when \"Guest\" was the name of the author of this board...what the hell?????!

Giris, you've been posting a long time here, did something happen?

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(a) Girismyleader was the "Guest" -- Seeker deleted her account, hence why it shows up like that.
(B) Apparently, the other posters here had been hassling her, she felt, about who she was and such, and then I nitpicked rather rudely about her contradicting herself in her posts about God and Satan, i.e. whether she actually experienced them or not, and unforunately, that was the straw that broke the camel's back, so she snapped, called me a bitch, and decided to leave DV, for a reason I still not only don't agree with, but don't understand, even though she's explained it about three times...
© Nesgirl...:wtf2: How is this your fault? You didn't even post here! Don't go all freaky on me now, Nes-chan... :shock:

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Originally posted by Muhjah

© Nesgirl...:wtf2: How is this your fault? You didn't even post here! Don't go all freaky on me now, Nes-chan... :shock:

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if I would have stepped in, maybe this wouldn't have happened...
Sorry, but I am quick to blame myself for anything bad that happens that I could not stop.....b/c of that incident in 7th grade......

I also thought that was extremely random when you just came in and said it was your fault.

I figure after all this, it's why she wanna leaves (especially after so long. She says personal reasons, but what recently happened obviously seems to have triggered uncomfortable parts of her that are indeed then her personal reasons. I think she feels like she has a lot to defend, especially when being so certain about her experiences with the spiritual. And that maybe things aren't so solid in the moment...

*InTheMoment, I'm not saying that you are impotent*

Nesgirl, we have talked about this. Almost nothing that happens is your fault, you know? Stop torturing yourself like this.

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Originally posted by Seeker
Nesgirl, we have talked about this. *Almost nothing that happens is your fault, you know? *Stop torturing yourself like this.

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Okay...I was just grieving about this, & when I do that, I tend to blame myself!!

It's all Bush's fault. It's about oil for Jews. Don't you know what the queers are doing to the soil!

I can see into the future....

I see, I see, this topic becoming locked. :)