Thread: Can "GOD" be manipulated?

The Book of Job

1.6 thru 2.6

I don't know what version you are looking at as I don't have an array myself to choose from and compare, but this is the first link I came upon as what do you know......

Originally Posted by kadie

The Book of Job

1.6 thru 2.6

I don't know what version you are looking at as I don't have an array myself to choose from and compare, but this is the first link I came upon as what do you know......

Hi kaddie

All my Bible quotes are King James Version (kjv).

Job tells us why everything went horribly wrong for him. He had a perfect "hedge" (impenetrable to the accuser) around everything to do with him. His health, wealth and family were covered by his faith and love. Then "doubt and fear" made a hole in that "hedge". The accuser couldn't see the little hole in the hedge. Satan is no where near as ... thingy ... as people think he is.

God did not give the accuser permission or power to do what he did.

Job himself did that through doubt and fear.

But, God did say "But don't kill him!"


God did Not let the accuser at Job (!!!)

Job tells us why there was a hole in the hedge in Job Chapter 3 verse 25

25) - *For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Originally Posted by EbbTide000

Hi kaddie

All my Bible quotes are King James Version (kjv).

Job tells us why everything went horribly wrong for him. He had a perfect "hedge" (impenetrable to the accuser) around everything to do with him. His health, wealth and family were covered by his faith and love. Then "doubt and fear" made a hole in that "hedge". The accuser couldn't see the little hole in the hedge. Satan is no where near as ... thingy ... as people think he is.

God did not give the accuser permission or power to do what he did.

Job himself did that through doubt and fear.

But, God did say "But don't kill him!"


God did Not let the accuser at Job (!!!)

Job tells us why there was a hole in the hedge in Job Chapter 3 verse 25

How ridiculous.

If Job is the one giving Satan the power, how is it that God is directing the power?

Do you even read what you wright?

You say God did not let Satan at Job but the fact is that God is orchestrating what goes on with restrictions on killing Job while allowing the killing of his children.

Regards
DL

Hi Gnostic,

I think that its pretty clear that God gave Satan leave to do his best with Job, however Ebbtide is a long time member here and I consider her a good person, so please use caution with these comments, after all she is stating her interpretation and is not on the same scale as was Deanstar in regards to the topic.

Kindest regards and much thanks for all your contributions,
Kadie

Who or what is God to you.

Originally Posted by dutchraptor

Damn now we'll never get to witness that excellent debunking of yours. Is this some for of psychological attack, make us extremely anxious for what could be considered the most epic counter argument versus evolution and rip it out of our hands.

Just joking, the only sad bit here is that you only tell us after StephL spent so much time working on her own post.


Last time I checked the world was far from perfect.

If god is so capable of creation why did he set us up for such atrocities as genocide and disease.

If god is anywhere near as competent as the creationists make him out to be, than why did he allow adam and eve to sin, why did he create the human the sin. Even worse is that if it's in human nature to sin, and man was created in gods image...

Is god really as kind as we make him out to be.

He did, according to the bible, directly cause more than 500000 times as much deaths as satan did.

The Ancient Hindu's believed that Creation was perfect. Then, some childen of god wanted to enjoy like god. God loved them so much that he devised a way that these few kids could have "that" desire fullfilled.

He invented sleep and dreams. Then he let the children who had become envious of Him to fall asleep. And now we are having dream after dream (life after life) of being god and enjoying like god.

And

If you read Genesis, creation was perfect till Adam became discontent. God feels sorry for Adam. God wants Adam happy. God causes a deep sleep to descend on Adam.

Notice, (in Genesis) Adam was not awakened.

The dream begins with god removing something from his perfect creation, Adam.

As a result, Adam is now less than perfect.

Adam, in the dream, falls in love with his rib. And wants nothing more to do with his creator. And the dream (or nightmare) continues to this day.

Will the magic of lucid dreaming awaken Adam.

Adam is not male. Adam becomes male after he falls asleep and his rib is removed to create female.

Before Adam fell asleep he was (and is) a whole and perfect being.

Within time, from the Big Bang to Absolute Zero, maybe Adam dreams?

★★★

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eHFfjH057TY#

★★★

Lyrics

The good Lord made man, then he rested for a little while
Said look what I`ve done, ain't he pretty, then he cracked a smile
I`ll watch him grow, I`ll hear him talk, learn to love and fight
But when he`s had his fill of these I`ll walk him through the night

To someplace green (someplace green)
Someplace nice (someplace nice)
Someplace that I (ooh-ooh) call paradise
Growin` greener in the rain
Waitin` there for man to claim

The good Lord looked down on the earth one afternoon and frowned
Said man ain`t learned an awful lot since I carved him out of ground
He`s built a lot of steeples of clay and rocks and sand
But he hasn`t learned to get along with his fellow man

And someplace green (someplace green)
Someplace nice (someplace nice)
Someplace that I (ooh-ooh) call paradise
Is growin` greener in the rain
Waitin` there for man to claim

The good Lord`s been around a while, eternity at least
And I guess he`ll be around a while, when time and tide have ceased
Lookin` down from somewhere, tryin` hard to find
If man has earned his paradise the other side of time

And someplace green (someplace green)
Someplace nice (someplace nice)
Someplace that he calls paradise
Is growin` greener in the rain
Waitin` there for man to claim
Yes growin` green, green, green in the rai-ai-ain
Waitin` there for man to claim

Oooops wrong thread ... oh well. Thanx kaddie,♥ U

Originally Posted by kadie

Hi Gnostic,I think that its pretty clear that God gave Satan leave to do his best with Job, however Ebbtide is a long time member here and I consider her a good person, so please use caution with these comments, after all she is stating her interpretation and is not on the same scale as was Deanstar in regards to the topic.

Not to mention that Ebbtide's interpretation brings up a couple of interesting on-topic points:

If Satan's actions were the result of Job's failings, and not God's capriciousness, then maybe God cannot be manipulated; at least in the context of Job. By the same token Satan can be manipulated, and Job (Man) certainly could, but God continues to follow His own rules, as it were.

Job was, after all, a test of faith (or at least a callous bet about a man's faith), and the person being tested was Job, and not God. God might not have been quite the loving fellow we think of these days, but he also might not have been being manipulated, if the story were looked at from this point of view.

That said, I must admit I'm not fully on board with this perspective, arguably sound as it may be. This is because Job might also be a cautionary tale about the power of Satan, and in that case maybe God was being manipulated.

I don't know. Who is to be trusted on these matters? No one knows. If your good with words you can manipulate God for whom ever will listen. If you have money you can control peoples thoughts on God through television. This would be your best bet. Everyone watches t.v. so insert your thoughts on God into their favorite shows.

People wondered why good people would have horrible things happen to them some times. They were good, so why would God punish them? This is a basic question that everyone believes in God will think about at some point or another. Bob was a nice guy, why did he get cancer? Why did my daughter get killed by a drunk driver. Stuff like that. The story of Job tries to explain this, and shows a good person going through much trouble. If you read the story, the point clearly seems to be, that you just shouldn't question god and if you keep believing eventually it will work out. In other words, it doesn't answer the question at all and tries to dodge it.

^^ Good point, and I'm feeling a bit sheepish for forgetting to mention that major theme.

This might indicate that God cannot be manipulated as well: Because bad things do happen to people, regardless of their faith, piety, or personal quality. So perhaps God's "Plan" is one that cannot be adjusted by, say, our prayers or good deeds, and sometimes that plan inexplicably ruins an individual's life, just because that is the route It is taking. .

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Good point, and I'm feeling a bit sheepish for forgetting to mention that major theme.

This might indicate that God cannot be manipulated as well: Because bad things do happen to people, regardless of their faith, piety, or personal quality. So perhaps God's "Plan" is one that cannot be adjusted by, say, our prayers or good deeds, and sometimes that plan inexplicably ruins an individual's life, just because that is the route It is taking. .

I feel it indicates the exact opposite. If he is all powerful, why does he need to incorporate bad things into his plan? Hell, why does he even need a plan? If he needs to make up a plan and to execute it, that must mean there are some circumstances out of his control that he has to take into account. If everything was up to him, he'd have no reason to plan ahead. So it would seem he is being manipulated by his circumstances; or he just likes making bad things happen to good people.

^^ Or God's version of bad things is way different than ours. Who knows? He might not really care about what happens to us during our brief corporeal visit to this life, which, given the eternal nature of the souls He's given us, will likely be long forgotten during most of our eternal spiritual existence.

God's Plan might be like a long-term construction project, only this project is an entire universe. Sometimes phases of construction demand a little unavoidable pain or very hard work. And, on a universal scale, the growing pains of a group of primitive folks on a backwater planet at the edge of a lesser galaxy might simply not matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

... So God might not be being manipulated by circumstances as much as He really doesn't care much about very brief individual pain caused by the collateral circumstances generated by His long-term creation project.

[Full disclosure: I am writing in the context of this thread, and not in the context of what I actually believe.]

Originally Posted by Sageous

Not to mention that Ebbtide's interpretation brings up a couple of interesting on-topic points:

If Satan's actions were the result of Job's failings, and not God's capriciousness, then maybe God cannot be manipulated; at least in the context of Job. By the same token Satan can be manipulated, and Job (Man) certainly could, but God continues to follow His own rules, as it were.

Job was, after all, a test of faith (or at least a callous bet about a man's faith), and the person being tested was Job, and not God. God might not have been quite the loving fellow we think of these days, but he also might not have been being manipulated, if the story were looked at from this point of view.

That said, I must admit I'm not fully on board with this perspective, arguably sound as it may be. This is because Job might also be a cautionary tale about the power of Satan, and in that case maybe God was being manipulated.

That may be, but in the Bible, it says many times after each calamity that befell Job, that God called him Blameless and Steadfast, a loyal servant to the Lord. So I still have to agree with whomever first brought up the example of the story of JOB and that God can and was according to the story manipulated.

^^ Fair enough... like I said, it was an interesting perspective because of the bigger questions it raises, but in the context of Job itself it does seem that God was being toyed with.

So... does that mean actual manipulation of God can only be done by someone as powerful as Satan? Does our (meaning we lowly humans) only means of manipulating God lie in how we talk about Him, or in the stories we create about Him (like Job)?

Hey kaddie (and friends)

A Dreamviews member did a video tutorial on how to LD. Had many lovely pictures in the video. I was brand new to Dreamviews then (4 years ago). I grabbed this photo.It is a full screanshot of a post.

♥♥♥

Forum code:*

♥♥♥
Look at point (1:40) of that video I posted in the below quote.

If the link (between the ♥♥♥ ♥♥♥ dont open the highlight, copy this into Google seach bar and view it that way.

immie Rodgers - Someplace Green

I call that a "sinc, sync, sinc, (synchronicity synchronicity synchronicity) !!!!

Originally Posted by EbbTide000

Who or what is God to you.



The Ancient Hindu's believed that Creation was perfect. Then, some childen of god wanted to enjoy like god. God loved them so much that he devised a way that these few kids could have "that" desire fullfilled.

He invented sleep and dreams. Then he let the children who had become envious of Him to fall asleep. And now we are having dream after dream (life after life) of being god and enjoying like god.

And

If you read Genesis, creation was perfect till Adam became discontent. God feels sorry for Adam. God wants Adam happy. God causes a deep sleep to descend on Adam.

Notice, (in Genesis) Adam was not awakened.

The dream begins with god removing something from his perfect creation, Adam.

As a result, Adam is now less than perfect.

Adam, in the dream, falls in love with his rib. And wants nothing more to do with his creator. And the dream (or nightmare) continues to this day.

Will the magic of lucid dreaming awaken Adam. (!!!)

Adam is not male. Adam becomes male after he falls asleep and his rib is removed to create female.

Before Adam fell asleep he was (and is) a whole and perfect being.

Within time, from the Big Bang to Absolute Zero, maybe Adam dreams?

★★★

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eHFfjH057TY#

★★★

Lyrics

The good Lord made man, then he rested for a little while
Said look what I`ve done, ain't he pretty, then he cracked a smile
I`ll watch him grow, I`ll hear him talk, learn to love and fight
But when he`s had his fill of these I`ll walk him through the night

To someplace green (someplace green)
Someplace nice (someplace nice)
Someplace that I (ooh-ooh) call paradise
Growin` greener in the rain
Waitin` there for man to claim

The good Lord looked down on the earth one afternoon and frowned
Said man ain`t learned an awful lot since I carved him out of ground
He`s built a lot of steeples of clay and rocks and sand
But he hasn`t learned to get along with his fellow man

And someplace green (someplace green)
Someplace nice (someplace nice)
Someplace that I (ooh-ooh) call paradise
Is growin` greener in the rain
Waitin` there for man to claim

The good Lord`s been around a while, eternity at least
And I guess he`ll be around a while, when time and tide have ceased
Lookin` down from somewhere, tryin` hard to find
If man has earned his paradise the other side of time

And someplace green (someplace green)
Someplace nice (someplace nice)
Someplace that he calls paradise
Is growin` greener in the rain
Waitin` there for man to claim
Yes growin` green, green, green in the rai-ai-ain
Waitin` there for man to claim

Oooops wrong thread ... oh well. Thanx kaddie,♥ U

Probably confirms that Lucid Dreaming will awaken Adam.

I made my first post here on DV (4 YEARS and 6 months ago) in the introduction Zone. I wrote:

I have a little hiptop mobil to tune in and post but I mostly use internet cafés cos I don't have the internet at home. I am at Netzone Internet Cafe right now and it is 9pm Saturday here in Adelaide, South Australia (20 March 2010)

Soon I found this thread:

★★★

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...rmation-7.html

★★★

MY first post in on page 7, post number 159. The link above opens on page 7.

My next post I begin defending my good friend Nick Newport by transcribing his work. This is how, I open post 162:

Let’s get to it (!!!)

Some of “You” respected DreamViewers hate my Mat-Nick’s (Nicholas Newport’s) work. Let us get specific about exactly what you hate.

On that same page a username "edge0125" in post number 173, writes:

Some of Nicholaus method just don't make sense. I wonder how many LD that guy has had, i wouldn't be surprised if his number was less than 20.

You guys should check out my LD How to video.
I uploaded this on Friday. real advice that has worked for me. and i tried to cover everything thing i know

Then he links the LD Youtubes that he'd just loaded

★★★

Part 1

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sP_jzImhP8s

★★★ 325,644 views.

Look at point (7:55) of this 10 minute Youtube. there's the exact photo that I screenshoted. The same as picture at the (1:40) point of this YouTube.

☆☆☆

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eHFfjH057TY

☆☆☆

If it don't link then highlight, copy and pasre these words

Jimmie Rodgers - Someplace Green

into the Google search -bar.

*** below is a screenshot of post number 173 but it must have been deleted by a mod , years ago. Lucky I screenshoted it or I wouldent have it. And I wouldn't know about the synchronicity.

Forum code:*

☆☆☆

Originally Posted by kadie

Hi Gnostic,

I think that its pretty clear that God gave Satan leave to do his best with Job, however Ebbtide is a long time member here and I consider her a good person, so please use caution with these comments, after all she is stating her interpretation and is not on the same scale as was Deanstar in regards to the topic.

Kindest regards and much thanks for all your contributions,
Kadie

I always use care with literalists. Those who believe in fantasy, miracles and magic are mentally sensitive.

But be these folks way right or just semi-right wing, they are still literalists and have beliefs that the intelligentsia would not agree with.

But that aspect aside, it is the immoral double standards of morality that Christians have to develop to swallow the version their corrupt hierarchy puts out.

Good to torture and kill without cause indeed.

Strange that their God has the balls to admit his sin but Christians will not accept his judgement of his own immoral actions. Insanity that.

It is like not accepting Hitler's confession in the murder of Jews. Ridiculous to the point of stupidity and insanity.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Alric

People wondered why good people would have horrible things happen to them some times. They were good, so why would God punish them? This is a basic question that everyone believes in God will think about at some point or another. Bob was a nice guy, why did he get cancer? Why did my daughter get killed by a drunk driver. Stuff like that. The story of Job tries to explain this, and shows a good person going through much trouble. If you read the story, the point clearly seems to be, that you just shouldn't question god and if you keep believing eventually it will work out. In other words, it doesn't answer the question at all and tries to dodge it.

Do not question is what you get.

1 Thesalonian 5;21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

This and many others tell you to question.

Fools will not question and judge all aspects of the immoral Gods on offer.

Regards
DL

Her is an interesting article that I found this morning in regards to the authors of the Bible....

10 Theories About Who Really Wrote The Bible - Listverse

This is very interesting even though it is just theory. The part about the Revelations is particularly troubling.

Originally Posted by kadie

Her is an interesting article that I found this morning in regards to the authors of the Bible....

10 Theories About Who Really Wrote The Bible - Listverse

This is very interesting even though it is just theory. The part about the Revelations is particularly troubling.

The deeper we look the more inconsistencies and oddities we find.

It is all myth and lies. To think of the old bibles and writings as anything else is quite foolish.

Regards
DL

It's clear that the Bible cannot be trusted as the word of God because a council was required to sit down and pick which texts should go in the book and which should not. Why were the other texts abandoned? Clearly there was an ulterior motive behind choosing which texts should go in, and it was not the word of God that determined how these texts were chosen. So, if humans decided for their own reasons to remove some of the writings, it's logical to conclude that they were manipulating the texts on their own behalf and the resulting collection of writings known as the Bible cannot be the word of God and therefore should not be treated as such. One could contend that God chose the texts himself through divine intervention, but that's awfully convenient, isn't it? Humans are far to corruptible and and far too corrupt to trust that what they claim is "the direct word of God" after being edited by human hands is truly as they describe.

No argument. If the bible is the real words of a God then he is not much of a God.

In fact, he is more satanic than Satan. Strange how Christians call evil good yet they are supposed to be so moral.

Regards
DL