• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 16 of 16
    Like Tree10Likes
    • 1 Post By Ginsan
    • 2 Post By TDHXIII
    • 2 Post By Wisher
    • 1 Post By Ginsan
    • 1 Post By Wisher
    • 1 Post By Ginsan
    • 1 Post By Original Poster
    • 1 Post By Alric

    Thread: If people actually read the Bible or Quran

    1. #1
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48

      If people actually read the Bible or Quran

      Usually the books are represented by people and not directly read, this makes people unaware of the obvious nonsense because it is not mentioned. So do you think it would be an effective strategy to reduce religion by spreading translated books for free? Ofcourse some people will become stronger believers but what would the effect on average be? I plan to read the Quran to verify or falsify this for myself, and I am considering buying 100s of translated Qurans (in countries where the majority is a Muslim) and giving them to random people for free.
      Last edited by Ginsan; 06-09-2015 at 07:47 PM.
      LouaiB likes this.

    2. #2
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal 1 year registered

      Join Date
      Mar 2015
      Gender
      Location
      Collapsed Dimension
      Posts
      203
      Likes
      166
      DJ Entries
      5
      Quote Originally Posted by Ginsan View Post
      Usually the books are represented by people and not directly read, this makes people unaware of the obvious nonsense because it is not mentioned. So do you think it would be an effective strategy to reduce religion by spreading translated books for free? Ofcourse some people will become stronger believers but what would the effect on average be? I plan to read the Quran to verify or falsify this for myself, and I am considering buying 100s of translated Qurans (in countries where the majority is a Muslim) and giving them to random people for free.
      Reading is the only way you can see for yourself what the religion is about. There can be false translations though due to arabic grammar being very complicated. That's my opinion.
      Wisher and LouaiB like this.

    3. #3
      Pirate: Psyborg Achievements:
      Tagger Second Class 1000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV 3 years registered
      Wisher's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      LD Count
      1
      Gender
      Location
      Psyche
      Posts
      260
      Likes
      258
      Same for ancient Hebrew being mistranslated. Consider this, we read a Shakespearean play from the 1700s and have trouble, how much more a text dated to 5 AD (New Testament) and 500 or older BC (Old Testament) and not only that, it wasn't English. A lot of the meaning is lost on us. To really read the texts I believe you should understand the original language (which is what Muslims teach about the Qu'ran) as well as understand the culture of the place and time period. Note the culture and time period of the Bible spans thousands of years and places.

      Anyway, yes though, they are very fascinating texts. I've wondered if Jesus was a lucid dreamer in this world.
      All the Cool Cats and Lucid Dreamers are hanging out in DreamViews Webchat, click to join us!



      Merilly merilly merilly merilly
      Life is but a dreamm

    4. #4
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48
      It's very annoying to keep hearing this. You might lose some meaning, but what if you hear it from some believer? The person that talks about it in a curch or mosque is obviously trying to convince other people to believe or is at least trying to talk in favor of the religion. How is that better than reading a faulty translation?

    5. #5
      high mileage oneironaut Achievements:
      Made lots of Friends on DV 1000 Hall Points Stickie King Populated Wall Referrer Silver 10000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Sageous's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2011
      LD Count
      35+ Yrs' Worth
      Gender
      Location
      any quiet place
      Posts
      4,918
      Likes
      6930
      After the hash that the King James Bible made of both testaments, there was a great effort made by scholars to produce translations that best reflected the original texts. As of 30 years ago (the last time I cared), the best translation came in the Jerusalem Bible, whose editors made a great effort to be true to language, nuance, and colloquial terms of the original texts. You might want to check it out.

      I'm guessing the Koran received the same treatment at least once, though I can't help you there... if you find a good translation, though, let me know, because I've been wanting to read it for myself for some time now.

      Reading these books through on your own is a very good idea, I think; good luck and be sure to keep an open mind!

    6. #6
      Pirate: Psyborg Achievements:
      Tagger Second Class 1000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV 3 years registered
      Wisher's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      LD Count
      1
      Gender
      Location
      Psyche
      Posts
      260
      Likes
      258
      Quote Originally Posted by Ginsan View Post
      It's very annoying to keep hearing this. You might lose some meaning, but what if you hear it from some believer? The person that talks about it in a curch or mosque is obviously trying to convince other people to believe or is at least trying to talk in favor of the religion. How is that better than reading a faulty translation?
      XP annoying shmashmoyning bro, it is what it is. I never said it was better, but if your asking me to argue for it, usually the guys doing the talking in church/mosque went to study the culture, times, etc. in some kind of Jesus College or Muhammed School.

      If your plan is to stomp out religion through handing out holy books...

      Lol... XD sorry I just imagined your avatar desperately handing out holy books in order to stop religion from spreading. It sounds like a Gintama episode ROFLLL

      *BREATHHEES* So funny. Seriously tho, I'll be the first to say any dream is at least possible
      Ginsan and LouaiB like this.
      All the Cool Cats and Lucid Dreamers are hanging out in DreamViews Webchat, click to join us!



      Merilly merilly merilly merilly
      Life is but a dreamm

    7. #7
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48
      Hahaha that's brilliant man it really does sound like a Gintama episode xD I can tell, I've seen the whole thing 3 times

      But don't you think that the peolpe talking at a church/mosque are biased?
      Wisher likes this.

    8. #8
      Pirate: Psyborg Achievements:
      Tagger Second Class 1000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV 3 years registered
      Wisher's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      LD Count
      1
      Gender
      Location
      Psyche
      Posts
      260
      Likes
      258
      Eh sure but the holy books are just as biased if not more so. They're made to convert ppl

      I think the bigger problem is nobody reads anymore my man. XD You should invent a way to download the bible, Qur'an, and ancient Muslim/Christian culture into ppls brains. I think you would reach your goals a lot better
      LouaiB likes this.
      All the Cool Cats and Lucid Dreamers are hanging out in DreamViews Webchat, click to join us!



      Merilly merilly merilly merilly
      Life is but a dreamm

    9. #9
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48
      There are more problems with this approach, surely there are better things to do with my money! Just imagine the effect of buying 2000 books, spreading them to people, if I'm really lucky I can have a negitive effect on the faith of 10% of those people, with 5 bucks a book that is 10.000 euro's. With 10.000 euro's I can do so much more good in this world. For example sending it to people who are working hard everyday to feed the hungry and cure the dying in third wolrd countries. This strategy may be worth it 100 years later at the least, though that's unlikely. Only when people are not dying from hunger and disease, getting raped and robbed all over the world will this be a sensible thing to do.

      I realised this shortly after posting the thread, so I decided to see this as just an interesting question and not an actual strategy discussion
      Wisher likes this.

    10. #10
      Pirate: Psyborg Achievements:
      Tagger Second Class 1000 Hall Points Made lots of Friends on DV 3 years registered
      Wisher's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      LD Count
      1
      Gender
      Location
      Psyche
      Posts
      260
      Likes
      258
      Yea spiritually and religion kinda keep human morality in check. Whether its true or not, I can't answer that for you. What I do know is that it's helped many people get through hard times and its prevented ppl from doing wrong.

      Obviously religion isn't perfect though, and a devils advocate could argue religion has done as much harm as good. What do you think about religions Ginsan? Besides just that it is nonsense
      All the Cool Cats and Lucid Dreamers are hanging out in DreamViews Webchat, click to join us!



      Merilly merilly merilly merilly
      Life is but a dreamm

    11. #11
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48
      I think Sam Harris puts it nicely. "At its best, religion makes people do good things for bad reasons when good reasons are actually available." I have never found any form of irrational behaviour that will have eventually have a positive effect.

      Though I agree that religion and or spirituality can keep humans in check, there are better reasons to be good. And even if religion is the best way to make the world a good place, it still doesn't make it true. It does not make sense to believe something because it makes you feel better, it makes sense to believe something because it is likely to be true.

      All those arguments I got from Sam Harris btw.
      Last edited by Ginsan; 06-11-2015 at 10:14 PM.

    12. #12
      ... Michael's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      LD Count
      Who counts?
      Gender
      Location
      Invisible Society
      Posts
      1,276
      Likes
      76
      Spreading translated books for free? That's exactly what they seem to do if they can't force you to change your language. Doesn't seem to work... over 41,000 reported denominations of Christianity alone. Just because you read a language really well, and something is translated into that language very well, it doesn't mean it'll still be interpreted how it was intended. That's one reason Jesus spoke in parables and things. So many people might understand some of it... others might understand more of the meaning.... and some might understand. And most of the time the message gets really skewed down the line, so the last people get something like "banana rampage mountain tomb 13th 5" and come up with infinite different meanings for it. While the few who do know the actual meaning usually stay quiet to avoid the ignorance and ridicule and whatnot.

    13. #13
      D.V. Editor-in-Chief Original Poster's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 2006
      LD Count
      Lucid Now
      Gender
      Location
      3D
      Posts
      8,263
      Likes
      4135
      DJ Entries
      11
      Martin Luther thought it would be a good idea, not to remove religion but rather to free it from the grip of Catholicism. He believed that people should interpret the text for themselves rather than have a priest interpret it for them. I wonder who, now, is more accurate, Catholics or Protestants? I think, unfortunately, despite the fact that more people are literate and own bibles, they still have trouble making sense of it regarding their modern world, so they depend on the likes of Billy Graham to interpret it for them. Billy Graham, a false prophet, ended up inverting all of Jesus' teachings and people, who owned bibles and could read them at their own will, bought right into it. They created an antichrist without suppressing the information at all, but out of a simple need to have things explained to you rather than exercise your brain. This new idol they raised teaches them to hate the poor, hate the non-conformists, idolize the greedy and the cruel, and the very book they keep in their own homes explains to them, clearly, how wrong this behavior is no matter how many traitorous translations it's aged through.

      So in short, no I do not think getting people to read the bible will help. I think the necessity, to relieve people of their extremism, is to relieve them of their fear. Jesus taught us how to do this, as well. Forget your enemies, and in your forgetting, they seem to have forgotten, too. Your forgiveness blunts their weapons and renders them dull and useless.
      Sageous likes this.

      Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.


    14. #14
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48
      It's not because the posts were useless, but this thread is useless by its very nature. At least to me. As I said 2 posts before, removing religion (even if possible) is not the wisest thing to do with your money. I agree with you though, Original Poster. It might not even be very effective.

    15. #15
      Member
      Join Date
      Feb 2004
      Posts
      5,165
      Likes
      709
      I am pretty sure the reason people don't read the holy books has nothing to do with access to said books. It has far more to do with a lack of interest in reading the said books. In my opinion, because they are generally poorly written, and lets face it, boring. A person can get a free book but they are not going to read it if they think it is boring.
      Ginsan likes this.

    16. #16
      Banned Achievements:
      Created Dream Journal Made lots of Friends on DV Populated Wall 3 years registered

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      LD Count
      149 in 2016
      Gender
      Location
      Bleep
      Posts
      1,172
      Likes
      998
      DJ Entries
      48
      Alric I agree and that's a great point against my idea. Strange that I hadn't thought of it..

    Similar Threads

    1. Replies: 4
      Last Post: 05-20-2013, 07:08 PM
    2. ALL DV PEOPLE READ!!!
      By spiritofthewolf in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: 01-15-2006, 03:46 AM
    3. This makes the bible more interesting to read.
      By Dr_Pepper_PHD in forum Philosophy
      Replies: 19
      Last Post: 10-31-2004, 02:43 AM
    4. Read this people(and vote)
      By ffx-dreamz in forum The Lounge
      Replies: 27
      Last Post: 03-19-2004, 08:15 PM
    5. Hey people i need you to read this and help me please!!!
      By wer in forum General Lucid Discussion
      Replies: 35
      Last Post: 10-31-2003, 03:53 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •