Is God bound by any laws of reality?

**Universal Mind** · 10-18-2005 07:50 PM

We were having a discussion in the evolution thread, and I posted a yes/no question that I think gets right to my point. Because I am so curious about what answers I might get to it, I decided to start a thread on it.

Is God bound by any law or laws of reality?

If yes, then he is not infinitely powerful. If no, then there is nothing that would stop him from creating existence without evil and suffering, except apathy.

**InTheMoment** · 10-18-2005 08:12 PM

The concept of god is a construct of man. Concepts are not always bound the laws of reality; therefore the concept of god is outside said laws.

However, I feel that the concept of god (in general) is a flawed concept...so I voted option #3.

**AirRick101** · 10-18-2005 11:25 PM

Sigh...it only depends if you believe in God at all.

Everything else is an assertion after that point.

**Awaken4e1** · 10-19-2005 08:26 AM

If the sole purpose of the post is to spew 'your opinion' about how God does not exist?

Why even post the question?

Just for those who know the truth God holds himself within the confines of his own Word!
Which is the origin of all laws, even those of Science. You mean without God there would be no Science? OMG!

"Logicians running and screaming down the hall!'

**bradybaker** · 10-19-2005 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
If the sole purpose of the post is to spew 'your opinion' about how God does not exist?

Why even post the question?

Just for those who know the truth God holds himself within the confines of his own Word!
Which is the origin of all laws, even those of Science. You mean without God there would be no Science? OMG!

\"Logicians running and screaming down the hall!'

Is that a longwinded 'yes'?

**Universal Mind** · 10-19-2005 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
If the sole purpose of the post is to spew 'your opinion' about how God does not exist?

Why even post the question?

Just for those who know the truth God holds himself within the confines of his own Word!
Which is the origin of all laws, even those of Science. You mean without God there would be no Science? OMG!

\"Logicians running and screaming down the hall!'

I didn't catch your answer there. Try again.

You jumped illogically to a negative conclusion about why I started this thread. I did it to increase my odds of understanding the view of people like you. The question is the very question I am trying to get to the bottom of in the religion debate, and it is the one that keeps getting dodged. You can break that cycle whenever you are ready.

I assert that the God you believe in is not infinitely powerful. Your points have illustrated that. Here's your chance to really clear it all up. I invite the other religious people who have been in the discussion to answer the question also. As of now, it looks to me like your idea of God has limited power. He can't even change the rules regarding the existence of free will.

**Alric** · 10-19-2005 07:10 PM

What if he is bound to the laws of reality but the full laws are not understood by humans?

**Universal Mind** · 10-19-2005 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Alric
What if he is bound to the laws of reality but the full laws are not understood by humans?

Then God is not infinitely powerful.

**Rakkantekimusouka** · 10-19-2005 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Universal Mind
Then God is not infinitely powerful.

BINGO.

**LucidDreamGod** · 10-19-2005 10:10 PM

I've been reather intrested in philosophy latley and it seems to me god just doesn't exist, because if he were I wouldn't warship him he didn't do anything to help me, I can't see how a person of such caring and love would let bloody murder happen,

I'm an atheist now, but I do believe that there are forces on this planet that we don't know about, magnetizum and gravity are related hand and hand, and too me there may be a possobility that astral projection is true as well becouse of some magnetic force that we don't know about, to me life still has lot's of unexplainable things, who knows mabie will all use astral projection someday

**Redeyedwolfking** · 10-19-2005 10:39 PM

I dont see why god would be bound by his own laws That wouldent make sense at all unless you think of god as a living breathing entity like ourselves.

Originally posted by LucidDreamGod
I've been reather intrested in philosophy latley and it seems to me god just doesn't exist, because if he were I wouldn't warship him he didn't do anything to help me, I can't see how a person of such caring and love would let bloody murder happen.

I dont think god thinks of bloody murder as we do. to him the healthy humans matter most. Im sure if god could get rid of aids but he needed to kill all of the humans with it then im sure he gladly would kill the the humans with it. if someone murdered someone else, to god it was probably because the person they killed was a harm to the rest of the population and if that wasent true oh well its just 1 human. Lets face it God isent that nice of a guy, but that doesent mean hes evil, infact he only wants us to survive and to do that healthy people come first. Quality leads to Quanity.

**LucidDreamGod** · 10-19-2005 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Redeyedwolfking
I dont see why god would be bound by his own laws That wouldent make sense at all unless you think of god as a living breathing entity like ourselves.

I dont think god thinks of bloody murder as we do. to him the healthy humans matter most. Im sure if god could get rid of aids but he needed to kill all of the humans with it then im sure he gladly would kill the the humans with it. if someone murdered someone else, to god it was probably because the person they killed was a harm to the rest of the population and if that wasent true oh well its just 1 human. Lets face it God isent that nice of a guy, but that doesent mean hes evil, infact he only wants us to survive and to do that healthy people come first. Quality leads to Quanity.

If he's not a nice guy why do people worship him, afterall if I have 8 billion children I wouldn't just walk up and stab the child I thought was bad, and just say, oh well just another human

.

**Awaken4e1** · 10-20-2005 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Universal Mind

I didn't catch your answer there. Try again.

You jumped illogically to a negative conclusion about why I started this thread. I did it to increase my odds of understanding the view of people like you. The question is the very question I am trying to get to the bottom of in the religion debate, and it is the one that keeps getting dodged. You can break that cycle whenever you are ready.

I assert that the God you believe in is not infinitely powerful. Your points have illustrated that. Here's your chance to really clear it all up. I invite the other religious people who have been in the discussion to answer the question also. As of now, it looks to me like your idea of God has limited power. He can't even change the rules regarding the existence of free will.

I think to confined God to what is a human concept of reality, is not a true question. I think it should be ‘Is God is held to ‘true reality’ in the truer sense of its meaning. Because I believe that yours and mine concept of reality is only a shadow of the real one.

**Awaken4e1** · 10-20-2005 12:06 AM

But, yes God is held by his own construct of limiation, for example

It is impossible for God to Lie.

It is impossible for God to look upon Sin

It is impossible for God to take back His gifts.

It is impossible for God temped man with evil.

**bradybaker** · 10-20-2005 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
But, yes God is held by his own construct of limiation, for example

It is impossible for God to Lie.

It is impossible for God to look upon Sin

It is impossible for God to take back His gifts.

It is impossible for God temped man with evil.

So in other words, God is not all-powerful.

**Awaken4e1** · 10-20-2005 12:13 AM

No, He is Omnipotent

Just because He limits himself takes nothing away from His power...

He refers to Himself as I AM, And in the I AM is all that is needed by all mankind.

I AM what ever you need me to be, for you.

**Awaken4e1** · 10-20-2005 12:25 AM

I think it is a very sad state of affairs that God has at our disposal everything that is needed for a personal relationship with Him, if we where to only ask Him.

**Redeyedwolfking** · 10-20-2005 02:10 AM

Originally posted by LucidDreamGod

If he's not a nice guy why do people worship him, afterall if I have 8 billion children I wouldn't just walk up and stab the child I thought was bad, and just say, oh well just another human .

.

It is said that we were created in Gods image. This may be true but we most likely are not built with the same ways of thinking. It would seem that people seem to value souls more than God does. It is true that life is not fair, some people are born with disabilities. Humans seem to still care about a person even though may be very strongly disabled, But to God these people are of no use, it is sad to say but if you think about it what kind of live would a seriously mentally disabled person have it probably wont be that nice and they would take away free time of other people to build a strong healthy population. I hate to say it but i sorta beleive this is an example of how God thinks, but if you think about It, it is quality that leads to quantity not quality that leads to more quality. and quality is sometimes better than quanity. so actually he is a good guy and he cares very much about us.

But i dont think God doesent value the soul the reason is because of the near death expiriences that some people have had. If these are real weather a trip to heavon or just the brains creation it shows an example of either plessure for no aparent reason or plessure that calms the soul for removal into another life or both.

**dreamtamer007** · 10-20-2005 02:42 AM

Originally posted by Universal Mind
Is God bound by any law or laws of reality?

If yes, then he is not infinitely powerful. If no, then there is nothing that would stop him from creating existence without evil and suffering, except apathy.

So you can set god straight with your logic? Lol Lol Lol Lol

**Universal Mind** · 10-20-2005 03:38 AM

Originally posted by dreamtamer007

So you can set god straight with your logic? Lol Lol Lol Lol

Huh? Uh, no, that wasn't my point. I don't think God exists. Now, what is your answer to this thread's title question? Why are you afraid to give a direct answer?

**Universal Mind** · 10-20-2005 03:45 AM

With this, you say that God is not infinitely powerful, that he is bound by laws of reality...

Originally posted by Awaken4e1+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Awaken4e1)</div>

But, yes God is held by his own construct of limiation, for example

It is impossible for God to Lie.

It is impossible for God to look upon Sin

It is impossible for God to take back His gifts.

It is impossible for God temped man with evil.[/b]

But then you turn around and say he is all powerful...

<!--QuoteBegin-Awaken4e1
No, He is Omnipotent

Just because He limits himself takes nothing away from His power...

He refers to Himself as I AM, And in the I AM is all that is needed by all mankind.

I AM what ever you need me to be, for you.

Which is it? You say he limits himself, but if he is omnipotent (infinitely powerful), then he CAN change the limitations. But you say he CAN'T. You used the word "impossible" in regard to his doing certain things. That means he is not infinitely powerful. Can he change his supposed limitations, or can he not? If he can, then it was not necessary for him to create evil and suffering. If he cannot, then he is not infinitely powerful.

Please get straight to the point of this by telling us which option you chose in regard to the poll question. Thanks.

**dreamtamer007** · 10-20-2005 03:59 AM

Originally posted by Universal Mind

Huh? Uh, no, that wasn't my point. I don't think God exists. Now, what is your answer to this thread's title question? Why are you afraid to give a direct answer?

God made reality you numb scull. You talk like children with no sense. Don’t you stop yourself from doing something stupid? Well no, maybe you don’t. Of course god is bound not to be stupid. You talk in little circles. The bible says “When I was a child I thought as a child, but when I became a man I put away the childish things” I think Its time to put away childish things and I’ll just hope one of you will be saved from your pride.

**YourTheManNowDog** · 10-20-2005 04:09 AM

is god bound by the laws of reality[/b]

what do you mean by reality i find that a loaded word.

**Awaken4e1** · 10-20-2005 06:38 AM

It is even more proof that God is all powerful, when He restrains Himself from wiping man off the Earth for his folly. But its all apart of His plan to bring man to the end of himself, to rock-bottom! There is only one true way for human change, and that is to strip him down to nothing (yes, to kill his flesh) then and only then to rebirth him into the Eternal. Born-Again!

The Rev.

**InTheMoment** · 10-20-2005 03:06 PM

Originally posted by dreamtamer007+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dreamtamer007)</div>

God made reality you numb scull. You talk like children with no sense. Don’t you stop yourself from doing something stupid? Well no, maybe you don’t. Of course god is bound not to be stupid. You talk in little circles. The bible says “When I was a child I thought as a child, but when I became a man I put away the childish things” I think Its time to put away childish things and I’ll just hope one of you will be saved from your pride.[/b]

Sounds like someone is running low on their medication.

<!--QuoteBegin-Awaken4e1
It is even more proof that God is all powerful, when He restrains Himself from wiping man off the Earth for his folly. But its all apart of His plan to bring man to the end of himself, to rock-bottom! There is only one true way for human change, and that is to strip him down to nothing (yes, to kill his flesh) then and only then to rebirth him into the Eternal. Born-Again!

First off, good job at not aswering the posed question once again. Is it really so hard to speak directly at the subject, rather than to go off on these dodgy tangents?

There is only one true way for human change, and that is to strip him down to nothing (yes, to kill his flesh) then and only then to rebirth him into the Eternal. Born-Again! [/b]

If god is all powerful, then he could just wave his hand, wand, scepter or whatever and change man as he sees fit. So that makes two possible ways for human change.