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    Thread: What is the reason of your existence?

    1. #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by RebelSeven View Post
      I've really enjoyed this thread, thanks for getting it started Sakki.

      As a child I tried very hard to have faith in my parents religion and it took way too long before I realized that was an oxymoron. Since I figured that out for myself no amount of study has been enough to "turn" me into a follower of any religion but I would dearly like to have the certainty that such faith brings. However, like Sisyphus said:
      And I've found that to be true.
      I was raised as a Christian. The more times I read the Bible, the more questions I had about what I was reading. The questions are usually answered with the usual "God works in mysterious ways." and "Who are you to question." dead ends. As time goes on and we develop more and more concrete proof of particular sciences I hear more and more excuses and even retreats on certain issues. First they said that evolution is a falsity, for instance. Now we can literally watch it happen within weeks under a microscope and now they say that it does happen, but that one species cannot create another (No reason given for that, just repeated statements of that nature.) They said that the earth, and therefore the universe (they were created in the same "week) is only a few thousand years old. Now we see that the stars in the sky take up to millions of years to get to us. Now they say that the "week" is a subjective term. They never said that before, but now that it's essential for them it's okay to think that.
      I went to a Christian school, and I will never forgive my science teacher who, through lies, or ignorance, taught us an incorrect version of the theory of evolution, adding things into the theory that just aren't part of the real theory.

      Now I do believe in what some might call "God", but not because anyone told me to. I have a mental model of the universe that includes all eleven dimensions, and this model not only allows for an ultimate consciousness, but supports it.
      Ironically, I didn't truly believe in a God until I had my first experience with mushrooms.
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    2. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      Here's a funny thing: I've encountered this example many times over the years, and have never had a problem with it. I remember at one of his dream camps LaBerge brought it up, and I really annoyed him when, after he mapped it out for us with great drama and gravity, I said, "So?" He wasn't pleased.

      In the end identity is identity, and it really doesn't matter in which physical package our mind currently happens to be wrapped; if we're still the same person, consciously speaking, our physical bodies and brains are just canisters that can be changed out as needed. (and yes, I welcome the coming singularity).
      This is entirely consistent with the mental model of the universe that I have in my mind. I can literally see it in my head. I am a mixture of the parts of the consciousness known as "humor", "curiosity", "empathy", "perversion" (lol), and others. When all of these parts come together in the right way they create sloth: Miracle Worker (that's just a humble name I have for myself). The concept is very hard to describe to other people.

      This is what I "believe", however, I don't know for sure that this is true, so I will not be participating in any beaming with Scotty.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      This is very true, well said, and one of the main reasons I play this LD'ing game: lucidity bypasses the physical filters of perception
      So does LSD. Amazing experiences there. I've still seen more incredible things in my dreams, however. I am much more impressed with lucid dreaming than with any psychedelic.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sageous View Post
      and gives us an opportunity to experience, in person, a sort of perfection in the truly Here & Now imagery of dreams... "realer than real," as it were.
      It always amazes me that my truly vivid lucid dreams are LITERALLY 100% realistic. I know this because I speak things that I don't want to forget. Many times I have said the words "This dream looks 100% realistic." "This wood grain looks absolutely real." "This sunset is prettier than any that I have ever seen in real life." and other various things.
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    3. #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by sloth View Post
      The more times I read the Bible, the more questions I had about what I was reading. The questions are usually answered with the usual "God works in mysterious ways." and "Who are you to question." dead ends. As time goes on and we develop more and more concrete proof of particular sciences I hear more and more excuses and even retreats on certain issues. First they said that evolution is a falsity, for instance. Now we can literally watch it happen within weeks under a microscope and now they say that it does happen, but that one species cannot create another (No reason given for that, just repeated statements of that nature.) They said that the earth, and therefore the universe (they were created in the same "week) is only a few thousand years old. Now we see that the stars in the sky take up to millions of years to get to us.
      So, is Science the truth? Or is it a more clever religion? A doctrine that is better crafted to deceive its followers so as to exert social control and extract profit? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. The root of my skepticism is that, for years I pursued a scientific life and found it to be empty. I don't wholly reject Science, nor Religion. I think it's all a lot of window dressing that obscures underlying truths. And underlying deceptions too.
      I am sure about illusion. I am not so sure about reality.

    4. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by sloth View Post
      I was raised as a Christian. The more times I read the Bible, the more questions I had about what I was reading. The questions are usually answered with the usual "God works in mysterious ways." and "Who are you to question." dead ends. As time goes on and we develop more and more concrete proof of particular sciences I hear more and more excuses and even retreats on certain issues. First they said that evolution is a falsity, for instance. Now we can literally watch it happen within weeks under a microscope and now they say that it does happen, but that one species cannot create another (No reason given for that, just repeated statements of that nature.) They said that the earth, and therefore the universe (they were created in the same "week) is only a few thousand years old. Now we see that the stars in the sky take up to millions of years to get to us. Now they say that the "week" is a subjective term. They never said that before, but now that it's essential for them it's okay to think that.
      I went to a Christian school, and I will never forgive my science teacher who, through lies, or ignorance, taught us an incorrect version of the theory of evolution, adding things into the theory that just aren't part of the real theory.

      Now I do believe in what some might call "God", but not because anyone told me to. I have a mental model of the universe that includes all eleven dimensions, and this model not only allows for an ultimate consciousness, but supports it.
      Ironically, I didn't truly believe in a God until I had my first experience with mushrooms.


      Same history here, raised in a very religious family. When i was 14 years old i realized that religions are bs and from that point i think of myself as an atheist...
      Still, had my parents realized im an atheist they would have probably kicked me out of the house...
      because they believe that will all their heart.
      Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.

    5. #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hunter491 View Post
      Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.
      Do you love? Love for family, friends, pets? If the answer is yes then God is within you because God is Love.
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      Who said that christian god is love?
      Coz even if he was real, he d be one hell of an asshole

      Just read the old testament

      If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

      They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

      apparently, since i do not "seek the lord, god of Isreal I should be killed


      Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

      My hindu friend is doomed then.
      And dont give me that: "its taken out of context bs" as that would make you a hypocrite, you also posted bible verses out of context
      Last edited by Hunter491; 06-09-2016 at 04:43 PM.

    7. #57
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      ^^ Old Testament quotes might actually be out of context, I think.

      The concept of "God is Love," though I think mentioned once or twice in the New Testament (possibly in the Gospel of John, which was itself a bit of an outlier), really didn't become a universal notion until probably the middle of the last century. Before that, and certainly during the era of the Old Testament, God was all about power, and not much else. Perhaps we've evolved a bit, and are attaching the "new" things we are discovering (like the power of love) to old things like our religious beliefs?

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      Where are you getting at?
      In Middle Ages christians were literally told, to burn witches hence ( in most cases) setting woman on fire.


      Many theists hate gay people based on the verse from Leviticus...
      Speaking personally, I do not care what are two or more consenting (spelling?) Adults do with their time and bodies...
      And if you think you may become gay by being around gay people, then you might as well say that you can become taller by being around tall people.
      Logic.

    9. #59
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      ^^ What I was getting at was that the "God is Love" concept is relatively new, since it did not become popular until well into the 20th century; and that maybe believers' general view of the nature of God is evolving... perhaps even evolving away from a specific, judgmental, Man Who is God to a more nebulous, universal sort of "good" energy. (this actually began, I think, in the new testament with the attempt to describe God not as an individual but as a trinity comprised of power, flesh, and spiritual energy; though this never really caught on).

      And yes, there are certainly people who cling to the old stuff in order to justify their own fear, hatred, or doubts, but the organizations of Christianity in general have stepped away from pretty much everything you listed (they really don't burn too many witches anymore, damnation is rarely if ever threatened by the churches anymore, and those people who hate gays have already become a minority, even in the U.S.). "Most theists," BTW, represents most of the people on the planet, since a theist is simply someone who believes in a god or gods; I truly doubt that the billions of people who comprise "most theists" hate gay people because of their religious beliefs.

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      I didnt say say "most" i said many.
      Diffrence right there.

      Besides, you dont get to cherry pick the bible verses, you cant just accept one verse of gods word but at the same time reject another verse, just because it does not match with your worldview...
      Either you accept it as as a whole, and believe in witches, talking snakes, great flood, earth being created in 7 days etc or you dont.
      Its that simple

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      Quote Originally Posted by Hunter491 View Post
      I didnt say say "most" i said many.
      Diffrence right there.
      I missed that; sorry!

      Besides, you dont get to cherry pick the bible verses, you cant just accept one verse of gods word but at the same time reject another verse, just because it does not match with your worldview...
      Either you accept it as as a whole, and believe in witches, talking snakes, great flood, earth being created in 7 days etc or you dont.
      Its that simple
      I'm not sure that it is that simple.

      Keep in mind that all religious texts were written by men, and not by God. Indeed, very often the Word of God (if there ever was one) seems to take a back seat to the authors' personal philosophical, prejudicial, cultural and political priorities. I would personally say that almost all of the Bible (especially the Old Testament) has less to do with God than it does with the needs or opinions of its authors. Because of this massive infusion of very non-divine influence, there is probably much of the Bible that can be discarded or ignored; cherry-picking to me seems more a prerequisite for responsible Christianity than a thing that mustn't be done. In fact, I personally wish there were a way for Christians to ignore the Bible altogether, and start over with as simple a theme as "God is Love." That the Bible is given so much importance diminishes rather than defines modern Christianity.

      Also, though it really doesn't matter relative to your point, I don't believe witches were mentioned anywhere in the Bible as I'm pretty sure they were invented long after it was written.


      [I feel a quick need for a full disclosure: Though I was born and raised a Catholic (with my entire education spent in Catholic schools, though they were much more liberal back in the '60's and '70's), I never managed to develop a faith based on the tenets of Catholicism much less the Bible... indeed, the very first sentence of one of my books reads' "First, there is no God." I am by no means an atheist, but the "Bigger Than Me" stuff I wish to believe in is very different from Christian (or perhaps any) theology.]
      Last edited by Sageous; 06-09-2016 at 09:33 PM.
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      Thanks for sharing your point of view. Might i ask how old are you?

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      ^^ Not at all. 54.

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      Btw, I really think its that simple. Christians believe the words written in the Bible came from god so these are sacred words. They dont even begin to ponder the question of their true origin.
      And if we re to say thats indeed true, then we must follow gods word all time, even if its illegal or immoral..


      Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

      If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her

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      I don't think it's that simple. I think there is a religious core of Christianity and a spiritual core (same with all religions and belief systems, even those that don't strictly involve religious/spiritual thought). It may be true, as you say, that the religious core requires the belief that the Bible be taken as literal (although even then, you will be hard-pressed to find many even among those who merely pay lip-service to their religion to agree with that view).
      Those who follow the spiritual core of Christianity, as opposed to the dogmatic religious social structure of the external world, don't need the Bible at all. And even then, if they held close any books, they would be those of the New Testament; the ones that are actually about the life of Christ. The rest are irrelevant except as a historical account of the teachings that pre-dated him, the ones that he was specifically trying to move society away from. The spiritual core of Christianity is not 'do as I say' but more akin to 'do as I do'.
      You don't have to agree with that, that is not your preferred flavour of spirituality. But there is a fundamental difference between religion as used as an excuse for certain disharmonious behaviour, and spirituality as used by an individual to enrich their experience of and contribution to life.

      It is a fallacy to say that if a person holds one belief then they must also hold another differing belief, because the association exists in your mind. The association of Christianity and dogmatic devotion to the Bible exists for you, but it is incorrect to assume that therefore it must exist for everyone else. Reality is full of both wheat and chaff, it is up to each individual to separate it for themselves.
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      To find the astral realm

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      Hello again :') i missed you all, you kind of chatted a lot about many things while i wasn't here i'm so happy that you shared your point of views *-* , well at the end ._. It was kind of useless from me to think that we will agree on something, yeah everyone have that point of view that no one can change thank you for joining on sharing your points of view *-*

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      Quote Originally Posted by Hunter491 View Post
      Btw, I really think its that simple. Christians believe the words written in the Bible came from god so these are sacred words. They dont even begin to ponder the question of their true origin.
      And if we re to say thats indeed true, then we must follow gods word all time, even if its illegal or immoral..
      Some Christians believe that, but probably not all and maybe not even most. Skepticism of Christianity - or any religion for that matter - is healthy, and I get where you are coming from. Christianity has a long history of violence and hate, and still today many use the Bible as an excuse for their hate. However, I think there are nuggets of wisdom in most religions. They all have tiny fragments of the truth. I do agree with Sageous that cherry picking the Bible is the way to go.

      Creation or the nature of heaven, God, the universe, or topics of this nature discussed in the Old Testament are very interesting, if studied in the original Hebrew, and have given me insight to the nature of existence.
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