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    1. #1
      Member R.Carter's Avatar
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      Speaking in Tongues.

      In my early 20's I became involved with a Pentecostal Christian
      church by way of my then in-laws. Most of the people there were
      normal blue collar class folks, others were power hungry which
      eventually led to my leaving.

      Overall not an unpleasant experience, but still one that led to my
      leaving organized religion behind. One of the things I witnessed
      during that period of time was women supposedly speaking in tongues.
      For those who don't know, and this is the explaination I got, speaking
      in tongues is when an individual begins to speak fluently in a language
      that they have never studied and have no history of knowing. Usually
      this occured when the congregation would split into groups of ten or
      so for prayer. This phenomena was accepted by this church to be a
      visitation of the Holy Spirit manifested in language, supposedly Aramaic,
      the language of their Christ.

      I freaked me the hell out. These occurances were usually accompanied by
      thrashing and eye rolling and seemed like put ons to me, calls for attention.
      Almost like status symbols. " I'm so holy, watch this. "
      Everyone else accepted these episodes as confirmation from God that they
      were on the right track and He was pleased.

      I honestly felt like many there knew it wasn't genuine but would rather
      fool themselves than accept the truth and be denied their security blanket
      against mortality.

      Has anyone else seen this, first hand or documented otherwise ?
      What are your opinions on the matter ?

      Peace, RC.

      You're getting sleepy......

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    2. #2
      Member Worlds Within's Avatar
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      I was a frequent church goer in the past, but attended non-charismatic churches.
      I was in one non-Pentecostal church in which one lady started to stand and speak in tongues, but her companion pulled her back down. The preacher made some negative comment about speaking in tongues shortly afterward.

      Some non-charismatic churches view of glossalia runs the spectrum from spurious and meaningless babble to the work of demons.
      Some claim glossalia ceased with the death of the apostles.

    3. #3
      Generic lucid dreamer Seeker's Avatar
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      I was involved in the Full Gospel movement from about 1984-1989. During that time, I was quite devout, spoke in tongues regularly, danced in the spirit and generally had a great time worshipping God. I also laid hands on the sick and took every opportunity to help people and spread the Gospel. I was heavily involved in the church and was responsible for the book and tape ministry.

      I like to believe that my experience was genuine, I know tha the love and zeal I felt at the time was real. I didn't see a lot of thrashing around and eye rolling in our group however. Yours church must have leaned more toward the "holiness" direction.

      Ours was mostly middle to upper-middle class people.

      Was it real? I honestly do not know anymore. Were the people happy and content in their worship practices? ABSOLUTELY.

      The main reason I left our church was due to its increasing focus on money and prosperity. That really kind of turned me off since I was more interested in the spiritual aspects.
      you must be the change you wish to see in the world...
      -gandhi

    4. #4
      Member kage's Avatar
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      i don't really have any personal experience with this, but i've heard from my friend's ex-preacher (the friend left the church) that if God causes someone to speak in tongues, He will provide someone else in the congregation with the translation. so this preacher would say that it's not real, unless someone else is translating. i don't really know what to think of it myself.

      seeker, what did it feel like when you were speaking in tongues? what was going on in your head? also, did you ever experience genuinely ill people being cured by laying on of hands? i mean something that can be documented. (not meaning to invalidate your experience, i'm just curious.)

    5. #5
      Generic lucid dreamer Seeker's Avatar
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      Originally posted by kage23
      i don't really have any personal experience with this, but i've heard from my friend's ex-preacher (the friend left the church) that if God causes someone to speak in tongues, He will provide someone else in the congregation with the translation. so this preacher would say that it's not real, unless someone else is translating. i don't really know what to think of it myself.

      seeker, what did it feel like when you were speaking in tongues? what was going on in your head? also, did you ever experience genuinely ill people being cured by laying on of hands? i mean something that can be documented. (not meaning to invalidate your experience, i'm just curious.)
      Yes, any speaking of tongues adressed to a group of people should also be accompanied by an interpretation. However, there is a personal use when you are in your private prayer time.

      Feeling? Goosebumps the size of M&Ms. Quite astonishing.

      The only case of healing that sticks out in my mind was some back problems my wife had. She could not get up without extreme pain. I laid hands on and prayed, whammo, it was better. Coincidence? perhaps. Proveable? Nope.
      you must be the change you wish to see in the world...
      -gandhi

    6. #6
      Member Gwendolyn's Avatar
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      I don't know what I think on the subject of speaking in tounges. I don't think I could ever have a valid opinion until I did this. Of course, I am agnostic, so I have never been involved in that kind of setting.
      Shine on, you crazy diamond!

      Raised: The Blue Meanie, Exobyte

      Adopted: MarcusoftheNight

    7. #7
      Member W.Stanford's Avatar
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      Carter, I was going to comment on some theories I had about the metaphysics on this subject, but the spirit in this thread is so quiet, I don't want to interupt it.

      The reasons why I respect the charismatic faiths are very similar to the respect I have for the Athiests, in that there is an urge to base their concept of reality on provable things. For the Pentacostals especially, their desire to see and otherwise experience the unseen and the spiritual engenders in myself an awe of their courage to walk down strange, hopefully fruitful paths of spiritual explorations.

      That there are dangers is this is merely a sign that what they are doing is actually pushing the envelope. By dangers I don't mean something negative, but rather a sense of exileration (the ole M&M goosebumps) at touching the unseen and the unknown. There is a courage to what they are doing.

      Of course the downside to that is I have also found expecially the charismatic faiths becoming "proud" over time, where there is courage comes for many a time where they become too confident and I'm of the opinion that this is where things like misdirected ambition materialism that I also have found in the upper-middle-class Pentacostals come from.

      But this is a test in and of itself, and postive as well, to learn how to manage your own confidence, to become aquainted with power and, over time, to use it more wisely.

      Hmmm, I haven't spoken much about the actual subject, more on the charismatic faiths and what I have observed. Oh well. C'est la vie.

    8. #8
      Member kage's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Seeker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Seeker)</div>
      Yes, any speaking of tongues adressed to a group of people should also be accompanied by an interpretation. *However, there is a personal use when you are in your private prayer time.

      Feeling? *Goosebumps the size of M&Ms. *Quite astonishing.

      The only case of healing that sticks out in my mind was some back problems my wife had. *She could not get up without extreme pain. *I laid hands on and prayed, whammo, it was better. *Coincidence? perhaps. *Proveable? Nope.[/b]
      so i'm a little bit confused. an interpretation should be provided if speaking to a group, but what about on your personal prayer time? will you receive an interpretation in your head, or does it just go uninterpreted, or what?

      as for your wife's back problems, that's pretty cool. do you know what the problem was? did she ever see a doctor about it or anything?

      <!--QuoteBegin-W.Stanford

      The reasons why I respect the charismatic faiths are very similar to the respect I have for the Athiests, in that there is an urge to base their concept of reality on provable things. For the Pentacostals especially, their desire to see and otherwise experience the unseen and the spiritual engenders in myself an awe of their courage to walk down strange, hopefully fruitful paths of spiritual explorations.
      i never thought about that, but you're right. that's an interesting idea.

    9. #9
      Member R.Carter's Avatar
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      I also had an experience with laying hands when I was 12.

      I was visiting some relatives during summer vacation and got really sick.
      Horrible fever, sore throat, headache, the works. My Grandmother, a devout
      Roman Catholic and my Uncle, a Christian Minister layed hands on me and
      prayed for me in the parking lot of the place we stopped for lunch.
      By the time I got my food, I felt 100% better. No joke, no bullshit.
      Outside I was dying, 15 mins. later it was like I'd never been sick.

      I remember feeling uncomfortable while they were praying. Even at that time
      I didn't have much faith in God, but it was the faith I was born into, so I kinda
      went along for the ride. By 18 I had stopped going to church altogether, and
      wasn't involved with religion until the PC church mentioned in my original post.

      Although I don't believe in God or organized religion, I do think that there is
      something. I believe us to be products of evolution and at the same time
      dwellers on a planet that contains unexplainable mysteries.
      I feel that my experience with laying hands was a manifestation of an energy
      I don't understand but respect. It's the reason I live as a good person, and
      try to be as beneficial to others as I can. I call it Karma because it's a familiar
      concept and easy for others to grasp when faith enters a conversation.

      Maybe Tongues is another example of this energy. Not a deity or a judge,
      but a power that different folks observe in different ways.

      Peace ,RC.

      You're getting sleepy......

      (__/)
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      (> < ) This is Bunny.

    10. #10
      Member wombing's Avatar
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      ooh, i'm an expert for once!

      i was raised in a 'pentacostal' church, and attended a christian school there as well, until grade 11. i once viewed speaking in tongues and other oddities as neccessary for the salvation of my soul i have witnessed speaking tongues thousands of times, literally.

      most churches which accept glossalia break it into two different types. firstly, one may speak in an actual language which they do not usually know or understand such as swahili (as recorded in the book of Acts in the NT). or, one may speak in 'the tongues of angels'. i never heard anyone speaking in a foreign language, but at times i have heard a hundred people or more speaking in the angelic tongue at one time.

      if one speaks in tongues in a church, they are supposed to have an interpetor translate what they are saying, but i rarely saw this.

      it is interesting to note that each church i went to had a general 'feel' to the sound of the glossalia. just now i easily spoke 'in tongues', to see if i could create a believable sound. . if i went back to my childhood church and spoke in such a way, they would instantly accept that i was filled with the Holy Spirit. it cannot be written as easily as typed, but i'll give it a go phonetically. usually it starts with a long drawn out 'O...", and is a short phrase repeated over and over with slight variations.

      O... sha la ma kae ta see lo, ka na na na mae so a see ah...

      this is interesting, as i never once spoke in tongues when i truly desired to do so, as a manifestation of God indwelling me. i realize now it is because i was waiting for something outside myself to move my tongue, when what was truly required was for me to initiate it. i can recall pastors saying 'you must open your mouth, and allow it to flow..."

      i have attended similar churches in a different province, and found that it sounds quite different. i read a study once which discovered that those who 'spoke in tongues' had widely varying intonations depending upon their native language.

      for instance, if one's native language had clicks or staccato tongue soundings, they were often found in their angelic voicings. one would expect that if glossalia is truly divinely inspired, and an angelic language, it would be fairly uniform, but this seems to be true only locally. different locations with little cross-seeding have very different variations.

      it is interesting that the greek Oracles at Delphi had a similar ritual around 400 BC. one would ask the priestess a question, and she would respond in unintelligible babble, which a priest would then interpet.


      “If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” (or better yet: three...)
      George Bernard Shaw

      No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world. I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker. - Mikhail Bakunin

    11. #11
      Member wombing's Avatar
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      as well, a topic which is loosely related is what is normally termed "being slain in the Spirit". i have seen this hundreds or thousands of times during my childhood and adolescene, usually at gatherings with widespread glossalia.

      basically it involves one dropping to the ground under the supposed power of God, and being unable to move their limbs. it was seen as a sign that the presence of God had descended strongly upon a person. i was 'slain' myself on 3 or 4 occasions. each time i felt as if i was a fraud, and wondered 'is this it...?", even as my spirit experienced tortorous turmoil once again at being 'shunned' by God.


      actually, this gives me an idea for a new topic...


      “If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” (or better yet: three...)
      George Bernard Shaw

      No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world. I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker. - Mikhail Bakunin

    12. #12
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      This Pentocostal mumbling is just nonsense. Meaningless jabbering.

      Real speaking in tongues is what occurred with Saint Vincent Ferrer in his European Tour back at the time of the Avagnon Popes. Vincent Ferrer was from Castile Spain and only spoke Castilean Spanish. He was the most powerful Saint in History, many more miracles a day then Christ had performed in a Life Time, and so he was immensely popular and attracted huge crowds. And there were no speaker systems back then in the 13th Century. However, in these large overflowing crowds of hundreds of thousands of people, each person would hear Vincent Ferrer speaking from the stage, sometimes almost a mile away, and they would hear him in their own language.

      so you see, 'Speaking in tongues' is more intended to mean closer to the idea of "Hearing in tonques'' -- there must be some understanding. Incoherent jabbering by Protestant Rebels still with Catholic Blood on their hands is more to be considered as manifestations of Satanic Devilry.

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