Thread: Heaven or Hell?

Actually, there is a very basic difference between the propensities that lead either to Heaven or to Hell, and it has little to do with some of these arbitrary behaviors -- one can steal from where it won't be missed to fill a desparate need, or one can tell a lie to relieve desparation or distress -- as one is supposed to tell trauma victims that they "will be okay", to prevent lethal shock.

So, if one applies one's discernment to the fundamental differences between Heaven and Hell, it is simply this -- Heaven is Civilized, Hell is Barbaric. Heaven is for those who are socially sophisticated, and comfortable with collective organizations -- comfortable with the flock, as are the herd animals who can subsist together without inflicting predatory behavior on one another. Hell, to the contrary, is for the predators, the individuals, the greedy, the selfish, the Barbarians, the Republicans, Tories and Libertarians. Especially the Free Masons. Also, it has been a noticeable trend that Protestants seem to vote along Barbaric lines, and so, while they profess a hope to go to Heaven, they would hate the Liberal Politics there and would much prefer the Individual Freedom and the support for Individual Greed and Ambition which are the hallmarks of Hell.

Leo, you seem like a very deep thinker. It is really rare to find people who reflect. Would you mind sharing your personal beliefs on God?

By the way, I have worked in the trauma bay as a sub-intern and the residents, nurses or the attendings never told trauma patients that they would be okay. I have actually never even heard of "lethal shock." There is toxic, cardiogenic, neurogenic, hypovolemic, and septic shock but I have not heard of lethal shock. Seems kind of redundant. Just FYI.

It's just a thought but our friend Atreyu here sincerely believes that he is trying to save us. Some people get annoyed by it but he really feels that he is in truth. I guess any decent human would try to save another if he could, and that's all that he is trying to do, just as a person would stop a blind man from falling in a hole. Although I disagree with his method and his beliefs I respect him nonetheless. God has no partner and has no son. I mean God having a son is likening to the story of Zeus and Hercules. It is a myth gentleman a myth. To say God has a son without proof is a grave charge don't you think. I mean, wouldn't you be pissed if someone told everyone in a dream forum that you had a son, and you didn't?

Why is this thread in the Attaining Lucidity forum? It seems like it should be in the Off-Topic forums. Go to those forums if you want to proselytize.

Originally posted by Scabeater
Why is this thread in the Attaining Lucidity forum? It seems like it should be in the Off-Topic forums. Go to those forums if you want to proselytize.

I agree, and resent being tricked into reading this garbage.

Sorry, guys. I was sure I had caught them all.

Moved to R&S

Originally posted by radsresident
Leo, you seem like a very deep thinker. It is really rare to find people who reflect. Would you mind sharing your personal beliefs on God?

By the way, I have worked in the trauma bay as a sub-intern and the residents, nurses or the attendings never told trauma patients that they would be okay. I have actually never even heard of "lethal shock." There is toxic, cardiogenic, neurogenic, hypovolemic, and septic shock but I have not heard of lethal shock. Seems kind of redundant. Just FYI.

It's just a thought but our friend Atreyu here sincerely believes that he is trying to save us. Some people get annoyed by it but he really feels that he is in truth. I guess any decent human would try to save another if he could, and that's all that he is trying to do, just as a person would stop a blind man from falling in a hole. Although I disagree with his method and his beliefs I respect him nonetheless. God has no partner and has no son. I mean God having a son is likening to the story of Zeus and Hercules. It is a myth gentleman a myth. To say God has a son without proof is a grave charge don't you think. I mean, wouldn't you be pissed if someone told everyone in a dream forum that you had a son, and you didn't?

Shock is often lethal, if left untreated, and it is common policy, among everybody who is not some silly goose, to reassure trauma victims, to minimize shock. Why you don't know this, while being a medical professional -- why I guess in your corner of the World it is the policy to simply let your trauma victims fall into shock and die. It seems you don't even realize the danger. I suppose it does keep Medical Costs low, if one allows everybody to die before receiving treatment. Certainly a Silver Lining around every cloud. Perhaps you could be an innovator... you could go to your National Medical Schools a propose a Study, whereby some trauma victims are kicked in the groin and told that they are not worth the fuss and will probably die anyway, and other Trauma Victims told that everything is being done to help and that they will be okay. Then see which slip into shock and die, and which do not. The results will Enlighten your Medical Professionals, I am sure. Where are you anyway. In Lebanon. Oh great. Remind me not to be injured in Lebanon, but if I do, to repeat to myself "I will be okay, I will be okay".... because none of you people would care to do it. Perhaps it has something to do with Islamic Fatalism -- that your Destinies are Written in the Book of Fate and ultimately no Human Interventions are worth the effort. Why is it you even have Doctors and Hospitals, if it is your policy to let the Wards die off without the benefit of any real care?


This all simply points out why you may be having your Problems understanding Religion, that you have the same problems even understanding your own Job and where you Work. It seems the most obvious things have escaped your notice. Some people have discernment and awareness and are able to pick up on experience and become wise and proficient. And other people stumble through life, depending only upon whatever it is that they remembered from their instruction and their reading... and without much native intelligence, that is not often very much.

Oh, about my personal beliefs... well, you must realize, that each of my essays shares something of my personal beliefs. And you would like to know everything. Well, then, consult all of my archived Posts.... what, there should not be more than 2000. After you have read them all, then, please, I will entertain questions.

Originally posted by radsresident
By the way, I have worked in the trauma bay as a sub-intern and the residents, nurses or the attendings never told trauma patients that they would be okay. I have actually never even heard of "lethal shock." There is toxic, cardiogenic, neurogenic, hypovolemic, and septic shock but I have not heard of lethal shock. Seems kind of redundant. Just FYI.

Trivial knowledge.
The phrase , "by the way", was at one point shunned by many beliefs. It was thought, when it was said that you were referring to going astray from the path of God, hence, By or around the way, God.

Originally posted by A Lost Soul
Sorry, guys. I was sure I had caught them all.

Hey LS, thanks for looking after this.

BUT, I'd like us to start banning people who make these posts in other forums on the board. Seriously, it should be very evident they belong only in this forum. Let's not let them create more work for us...

Originally posted by icedawg
I'd like us to start banning people who make these posts in other forums on the board.

The problem is they just come back again. I don't know if the ban function is your best solution.

[quote]

Trivial knowledge.
The phrase , "by the way", was at one point shunned by many beliefs. It was thought, when it was said that you were referring to going astray from the path of God, hence, By or around the way, God

This is a pessimistic rendering of the words "by the way". When we go by a certain route, that is the route we go "by", is it not. So, going "by the Way" is, well, going by the way.

Yes, 'by' may also mean alongside, but it never indicates being an any degree very far off.

so, your construction may very well be from out of the Calivinist Protestant Tradition. You see, the Calvinists insisted in Election and Predestination, whereby the Elect of God would be automatically Blessed from their birth, to have wealth and power. Then there would be the reprobate -- everybody else. It was basically a doctrine to support the Inequities of Life -- there would be Rich and there would be Poor, and all because God said so... did the sorting from the very beginning and that would be that. But the problem with such a Doctrine is that it seems incredibly unfair. So people feel compelled to come up with reasons why the Retrobate are deserving to be the Retrobate. So some little Blue Laced Ol Protestant lady hears the phrase "by the way" from somebody who still has to work for a living, and she can instantly project into this every reason for their damnation. But the reasoning must be forced over and bent to take her direction.

Originally posted by Leo Volont


This is a pessimistic rendering of the words "by the way". When we go by a certain route, that is the route we go "by", is it not. So, going "by the Way" is, well, going by the way.

Yes, 'by' may also mean alongside, but it never indicates being an any degree very far off.

so, your construction may very well be from out of the Calivinist Protestant Tradition. You see, the Calvinists insisted in Election and Predestination, whereby the Elect of God would be automatically Blessed from their birth, to have wealth and power. Then there would be the reprobate -- everybody else. It was basically a doctrine to support the Inequities of Life -- there would be Rich and there would be Poor, and all because God said so... did the sorting from the very beginning and that would be that. But the problem with such a Doctrine is that it seems incredibly unfair. So people feel compelled to come up with reasons why the Retrobate are deserving to be the Retrobate. So some little Blue Laced Ol Protestant lady hears the phrase "by the way" from somebody who still has to work for a living, and she can instantly project into this every reason for their damnation. But the reasoning must be forced over and bent to take her direction.

Very interesting Leo!
I had said this thousands of times before, never giving it a second thought. I read a Maya Angelou book, I know why the caged bird sings, and that is what brought me to that thought.

Originally posted by Boris
The problem is they just come back again. I don't know if the ban function is your best solution.

Let me worry about that.

I was halfway through replying to this Saturday night when my internet got yanked. Well, I guess it's time to get back to what I was almost finished saying:

I'd choose Hell, at least so long as God is how he's been described by the religion. Each religion seems to have determined that THEIR God is the absolute and only correct God, and all others are figments of humankind's imagination. They've also come to the conclusion that said God will damn everybody who doesn't worship EXACTLY how they say they should. That said God doesn't care how much actual good work you did in the world, only which religion you ascribed to. Leo's views fall slightly off this track, since he seems to be of the opinion that many religions are true enough to ascribe one's self to, and that God won't judge you for being a member of any one church. But yet Leo seems to hold true to the ideal that atheists will go to hell, just for being atheists. That seems to be contradictory, since supposedly said atheists SHOULD go to heaven, providing they did good in their lifetime.

Either way, religion seems to have determined that only those who ascribe to the one 'correct' God will go to heaven, and all others will be damned to hell. They seem to forget that they haven't substantiated that any God exists, much less which one is the 'correct' God.

As long as it remains such, I'd choose Hell. If people will be damned for lying once, or for not groveling at God's feet, or for ascribing to a religion differing from the 'true' religion only in the details, I'll have no part in heaven. Said heaven would be far too filled with big-headed neanderthals who only got their because they were too dim-witted to think for themselves.

I would prefer the BBQ sauce
in heaven they just have french mayonaise
that sucks

They say there's a heaven for those who'll wait
And some say it's better, but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun
You know that only the good die young

I'd choose Billy Joel's hell over your heaven, Atreyu (is that a reference to The Neverending Story, btw?). An eternity surrounded by people who believe the same narrow, judgmental dogma, who value blind, highly specific, and often logically-contradictory faith over a good life well-lived to the greater benefit of humanity sounds well-nigh unendurable.