Thread: "God cares about you..." Sure...

Originally posted by BeautifulDreamer
"God cares about you.." I've heard it uttered in many a church. But, even when I was a little kid and still beleived, I thought. "But what about that time I got hurt.." If God cares about all of his people, why doesn't he help each and every one of them. Any fundie would say "FREE WILL GODDAM*T !" But how is your free will being took away when it helps you? If you get ran over, and is about to die, your probaly just screaming out "Oh God, help me!" But, he never comes. Fundies may be saying "Because he wants you to go to heavan!!!!!!" But, think about it. Most of have families (Who we love) Children (Who we love) Pets (Who we love) Friends (Who we love) and life!!! (I think we all love this one...)

So my question is, does God really care about us? Or does us getting hurt/killed really amuse him?

Forget about the fundies. Do you want all of your Spiritual and Religious Ideas to come to you from a bunch of uneducated farmers? Is that whom you wish to argue with all your life? Stupid Farmers? How proud must you be to be able to ridicule cosmological models of people who think college graduates are 'city slickers'.

If you really want to develop a sense of metaphysical sophistication, then try catching up on Modern Sanskrit Philosphy and Hinduism, recent Buddhist philosophies... that kind of thing. Aurobindo is very challenging. Vivekananda is comprehensive. Yogananda's "Autobiography of a Yogi" makes compelling reading as well as being a great introduction to Eastern Metaphysics.

To understand the notion of Divine Providence as it relates to Human Suffering, you must have an understanding of Karma.

First, understand that you as an individual are not isolated in your own individuality. You are both a Soul with resonances going back before you were born, and you are also a continuum of your family's being and existence. Your Life is the result NOT of anything that God did but you are positioned where your own Self and your Family had put you. You are the result of Action. Worldly Action. Yours and your families action.

Does the Greater Universe care. Sure. But there are Billions of People to care about. And the Way God sees things -- there are not individuals here and there. God sees All Life as one great Life Field. God sees the Big Picture but down to the finest details.

Now, this is why I always insist that people should be Mindful of the Collective. If one treats one's Self as though you are Isolated and Independent, unconnected with the rest of the Universe -- Atheistic and Materialistic -- then any Divine Providence shown to you would be limited, almost wasted upon you. What God CARES about is the Collective. If you become Collective Minded and begin to Identify with the Universal, with All Life instead of one's own personal individuality, then there is some chance that one might experience some Providentiality simply because it will touch and influence more than just one's own individuality.

Nearly all the Disciplines insist that before one can experience God's Providentiality, the personal ego needs to be transcended.

So.. what your saying is if most of the population stopped beleiving, he'd smite us. Seems unfair.. I've heard about this free will thing that christians like to talk about.. so we don't have free will to stop beleiving? Also seems unfair. So he doesn't care about any of the wars, or famines, etc. But he cares about people beleiving in him. Geez, I heard god was nice. But, if he cares about us all, and since he is all mighty and do whatever he wanted, he could stop all wars, all famines, make sure nobody's getting hurt, etc, in a second. But instead, he cares about beleiving in him.

What an egotistical bastard.

How proud must you be to be able to ridicule cosmological models of people who think college graduates are 'city slickers'.[/b]

I'm in college, you stupid jackass. And I live in the city, you stupid jackass.

There is no god. The End.

Originally posted by bradybaker
There is no god. The End.

Agreed. I'm just trying to knock him, or whatever you feel like calling it.

Originally posted by bradybaker
There is no god. The End.

prove it.

Originally posted by BeautifulDreamer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BeautifulDreamer)</div>

So.. what your saying is if most of the population stopped beleiving, he'd smite us. Seems unfair.. I've heard about this free will thing that christians like to talk about.. so we don't have free will to stop beleiving? Also seems unfair. So he doesn't care about any of the wars, or famines, etc. But he cares about people beleiving in him. Geez, I heard god was nice. But, if he cares about us all, and since he is all mighty and do whatever he wanted, he could stop all wars, all famines, make sure nobody's getting hurt, etc, in a second. But instead, he cares about beleiving in him.

What an egotistical bastard.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-BeautifulDreamer
I'm in college, you stupid jackass. And I live in the city, you stupid jackass. .

Wow! How the hell did you interpet that post!? Did you even read it or did you write the awnser beforehand?

Originally posted by exploreyourmind


prove it.

Dude, I could give you a 500 page essay, dwelling on all the proof against god. You could probaly give me a 5 page essay for proof of god.

So.. what your saying is if most of the population stopped beleiving, he'd smite us. Seems unfair.. I've heard about this free will thing that christians like to talk about.. so we don't have free will to stop beleiving? Also seems unfair. So he doesn't care about any of the wars, or famines, etc. But he cares about people beleiving in him. Geez, I heard god was nice. But, if he cares about us all, and since he is all mighty and do whatever he wanted, he could stop all wars, all famines, make sure nobody's getting hurt, etc, in a second. But instead, he cares about beleiving in him.

What an egotistical bastard.[/b]

I'm in college, you stupid jackass. And I live in the city, you stupid jackass.[/b]

you have very convoluted thought, and misinterpeted leo (which is perhaps somewhat understandable if you haven't read many of his posts).

i know where you are coming from. i was raised as a fundamentalist christian, and went through a stage where i felt the need to rage against a god and system of thought i hated.

eventually i came to the point where i realized this rage was a waste of time, and was clouding my judgement. if my previous beliefs (which i likely never truly believed in) were all bullshit, the best course of action was to debunk them in a way acceptable to me, and then move on to something better.


you can't have it both ways. either we have free will, or we don't. if we don't, nothing you do or say matters anyways. people killing each other in war are not responsible for their actions, nothing can be done to stop famines, etc. humanity is essentially a cogworks played with by god. your struggle for meaning is meaningless.

alternately, we may have free will. in this case, how can you get angry at a determinist god who you do not accept for the darker side of life? you might as well rage against santa clause for giving you an unwanted present at christmas, when you know he doesn't exist, and your friend gave it to you.

wars are caused by people like you and i. humans choose to eek out an existence on land predisposed to famine, and sometimes contribute to environmental conditions predisposed towards famine.

the majority of the poverty and starvation in the world right now is caused by the lifestyles of first worlders such as you, me, and most people you know.

god is forcing nobody to exist in this dualistic world. life happens. parents are responsible for caring for and raising defenseless, helpless infants, and children. teenagers and adults could kill themself anytime they wanted.

you CHOOSE to live. you CHOOSE to believe there is something better than the fundies' pathetic excuse for a god. or you are a pawn in that very god's malicious sequence of events.

make a choice.


personally, i lean towards the interpetation leo was describing. i believe we are all participants in "god's" evolution. i believe we all freely participate, and decide our conditions in life. i believe each human chose to don flesh, and the dualistic conditions of our earth and universe in order to grow and develop in the face of resistance.

lifting air doesn't build strength, lifting weight does.

if you are going through a stage where it is neccessary to lash out against those whom you feel have wronged you by shoving a wrathful, illogical god down your throat since childhood, so be it. but at a certain point you must realize that they were just trying to find meaning, the same as you.

show them a better meaning, which causes you to live in a superior way. otherwise, what grounds do you have for thinking your differing beliefs better? you strike me presently as just as angry, bitter, and negative as many fundamentalists.

if you live your life in a negative manner, always fighting something you claim to be foolish and untrue, they still win. the only way you will rise above the past is to find a better way/belief system, and work towards that in a positive sense.

live for something, instead of in opposition to what you wish did not exist. good luck in your journey my friend it is possible to leave childhood gods behind, though it took me the past ten years to question, invalidate, and rise above christian fundamentalist doctrine.

and ultimately my view of things is this. i am responsible only for myself. i can only change myself (and others indirectly through my be-ing). direct your energy towards what you can change, not what you cannot.

just some thoughts. peace and love...

Originally posted by BeautifulDreamer

What an egotistical bastard.

The irony kills me.

It's eighter no god, or a god that's a total lazy fuck that doesn't care about people.

That are the 2 realistic options.

Originally posted by Neruo
It's eighter no god, or a god that's a total lazy fuck that doesn't care about people.

That are the 2 realistic options.

or we all collectively compose 'god', and haven't real-ized it yet...meaning you and i are the totally lazy fucks that don't care about people

Originally posted by wombing


or we all collectively compose 'god', and haven't real-ized it yet...meaning you and i are the totally lazy fucks that don't care about people

I totaly agree! Now I wonder if you are talking out of belife or experiance...

Originally posted by Raz


I totaly agree! Now I wonder if you are talking out of belife or experiance...

that grey area in between more than anything

namaste!!

If it means anything, I too am greatly annoyed by the common Christian answer about free will. Then they are covertly putting the blame on us for somehow ruining our own lives and others as well. It's just cliche, and most Christians are idiots. Stick to what you believe is true. People who say that just deny care for one's integrity. Now, if it was said from an atheist standpoint, I don't really have an emotional reaction. But I can see through a lot of religionists and it is utterly disgusting.

Originally posted by BeautifulDreamer


Dude, I could give you a 500 page essay, dwelling on all the proof against god. You could probaly give me a 5 page essay for proof of god.

you can't prove it you dumbfuck...that is the point...NOBODY will EVER know if there is a god or not until they die...you have no idea and i have no idea so i choose not to take a side on the matter...so you have fun writting that five hundred page essay DUDE.

Originally posted by exploreyourmind
you can't prove it you dumbfuck...that is the point...NOBODY will EVER know if there is a god or not until they die...you have no idea and i have no idea so i choose not to take a side on the matter...so you have fun writting that five hundred page essay DUDE.

The theists are the ones demanding that we recognize their deity as an all-powerful creator who should be worshipped and sacrificed for. Wouldn't you say that the burden of proof lies with them?

Nothing that has ever been observed in this universe requires the existence of 'god' to be explained. So why do theists assume it exists and demand that atheists disprove it?

Originally posted by exploreyourmind


you can't prove it you dumbfuck...that is the point...NOBODY will EVER know if there is a god or not until they die...you have no idea and i have no idea so i choose not to take a side on the matter...so you have fun writting that five hundred page essay DUDE.

Wow. Christians really don't care about science. I can really imagine you saying- "THe bible is ma science boook! And da lord is my teacher!"

Originally posted by bradybaker

The theists are the ones demanding that we recognize their deity as an all-powerful creator who should be worshipped and sacrificed for. Wouldn't you say that the burden of proof lies with them?

Nothing that has ever been observed in this universe requires the existence of 'god' to be explained. So why do theists assume it exists and demand that atheists disprove it?

well, there are varying defintions of 'god'. perhaps one day science will point towards some form of "intelligence" behind the universe.

intelligence implies purpose...that the universe is working towards something, unfathomable as it may be.

and ultimately, i think the burden is upon the atheists to disprove all purpose in the universe. i mean, a fundamental aspect of human nature (presently at the very least) is the need for meaning. 'god' is essentially purpose "personified".

without a concept surpassing pure chance, chaos, and meaninglessness, humanity would shrivel up and die,IMO. i mean, even the welfare of humanity comes a distant second to the only unifying purpose propelling this shipwreck of a race along. i'm not saying the vast majority of humans all believe in the same god, but only that theism in general is the unifying concept which gives humanity purpose.

don't misinterpet.. i'm an agnostic through and through, but i'm just saying that if atheists want to coax the comforting breast of meaning from humanity, they need to replace it with something equal or superior...

the onus of proof is equally upon atheists and theists alike. both posit the existence/non-existence of a very specific concept. both are active beliefs.

and both are arguing over something seeemingly above and beyond argument, which is what really makes me laugh. atheists amuse me as much as theists. i respect and empathize with an agnostic strongly leaning towards atheism (or theism).

but an atheist who asserts that there is no god with the same vigor which theists posit a deity is a hypocritical joker to me, and nothing more.

though i suspect many atheists are actually agnostics, and not full on atheists...

Originally posted by BeautifulDreamer



Wow. Christians really don't care about science. I can really imagine you saying- "THe bible is ma science boook! And da lord is my teacher!"

what are you talking about? you can imagine ME saying that?

Originally posted by exploreyourmind


what are you talking about? you can imagine ME saying that?

Let's think for a minute... I quoted you, so yeah maybe...

God allows suffering to exist, so we can experience our full being by self creation with our own free will.

God cares about us, but it is impossible for him to impede on our free will. God is a utilitarian, representing the collective universe, he knows that the way he will experience the greatest happiness will be through the giving us free will and self creation. Which means we can also do bad, and experience suffering. Do you think there would be more suffering in the world, if there was a lack of free will?

Originally posted by BeautifulDreamer


Let's think for a minute... I quoted you, so yeah maybe...

you don't know who i am in the slightest....i am not christian and beleive the bible to be nothing more than a book of morals...or a book trying to scare people into being good. so why would i say something like that?

Originally posted by exploreyourmind


you don't know who i am in the slightest....i am not christian and beleive the bible to be nothing more than a book of morals...or a book trying to scare people into being good. so why would i say something like that?

Well wow.. in your other posts you seem to be. I looked around here, you defended religion.. hmm... Mabe your nose will grow, Pinchinoccio!