Thread: The Wal-mart Bible Letter

Fuck that. I don't understand these people who feel the need to push their atheism on everyone like they say Christians do. I support anything that can move someone, and religion does that, so I support religion. I don't care if people do something radical in the name of God, the people who love it for the right reasons outnumber them.

That said, I'm not Christian, I love to laugh at the Old Testament, and the New Testament confuses me. Regardless, true Christian morals are something to be admired.

And, yes, I know the petition is essentially a joke.

- -Barrett

Originally Posted by Manifold_Time

www.thebibleletter.com

The letter was made by some people from www.godisimaginary.com. It argues that the Holy Bible violates Wal-Mart's rules of censorship and needs to be taken off the shelves.

I signed it. I feel more active about my atheism now.
[/b]

All I can say is wow. It's pretty clear that ignorance has infected mass numbers turning them into social zombies. Whether you believe the bible or not, there is wisdom in it that can be gained when you understand it.

HOORRRAAAAYYYY. Finally we can take some steps to counteract religious indoctrination!

One small step for Wal-Mart
One giant leap for mankind!!!!

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Everyone here is being a little bitch.

Lol.

Maybe I wouldn't give a shit about religion if it didn't severely affect my way of life and the entire future of mankind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg

The above video sums it up nicely.

I think that people are missing the point....Cencorship is wrong, whether it be of horror novels, works of literature that cry out to the public, or religious documents. Don't you see? By signing this, you allow others to decide what literature you ingest, and what knowledge you take in. Although I don't care for the Bible, I do care for my freedom. Today it's the Bible, but what other books are next?

To all those who think it sould not be banned. (my view as well)

Ah, my friend you have to look at the other side of the argument. You say censorship is wrong. Ok. Do you have any idea how many books have been removed from the bible because mideval Christians didnt like them.; Thats censorship. Just recently when the Harry Potter books came out, religious schools, like my own, banned the books from the school libraries because "the kids would practice sorcery and magic and not Christianity". Thats censorship. So by your logic it should be perfectly legal and moral to put pornographic books in plain view at a grocery store, and the anarchist cookbook should be available to children. The bible is just as inflamatory as the two examples. Just because it teaches a good message doesnt mean its okay. Tell me, would you care if Mein Kamph (Hitler's book) could be put on shelves all over the world. If you say its not okay, thats censorship.

Personally, i could not care less. I am an atheist and i dont think seeing a book on a shelf is going to pressure me into becoming a Christian again.

A note to atheists: Chill out with all this banning stuff. Every time you see a cross on a water tower or see "in god we trust" on a dollar bill, just let it be a reminder to how how gullible some people are. I like to laugh at it. We can wait it out until Christianity disappears, after people get bored of waiting for "the savior"

Originally Posted by Hominus

Just recently when the Harry Potter books came out, religious schools, like my own, banned the books from the school libraries[/b]

Private schools play by their own rules.

Here's the deal. I can by Mein Kamph, and have, at a book store. I can by my porno from a porn store and The Anarchist Cookbook from a head shop. Did our grandparents care if Joe's Auto Parts didn't have a carpet pattern that they liked? No, because they could go to Bob's Carpets. Everything is still available to us, it's just what private organizations choose not to sell.

And I like the note to Atheists. Let everyone believe what they want. If they take value in religion and it reflects positively, that's great. Why single them out for being happy? Same goes for Atheists. Some of the most moral people I've met have been Atheist. Christianity won't go away, A) because the Vatican bastards won't let it, and B) because it makes people feel good. I'm not Christian and was not raised Christian, but I've recently come across a group of people my age who were, and they are 90% just like me, only with a one more thing to be content with.

- -Barrett

Originally Posted by bobvilax2000

Private schools play by their own rules.

Here's the deal. I can by Mein Kamph, and have, at a book store. I can by my porno from a porn store and The Anarchist Cookbook from a head shop. Did our grandparents care if Joe's Auto Parts didn't have a carpet pattern that they liked? No, because they could go to Bob's Carpets. Everything is still available to us, it's just what private organizations choose not to sell.

And I like the note to Atheists. Let everyone believe what they want. If they take value in religion and it reflects positively, that's great. Why single them out for being happy? Same goes for Atheists. Some of the most moral people I've met have been Atheist. Christianity won't go away, A) because the Vatican bastards won't let it, and B) because it makes people feel good. I'm not Christian and was not raised Christian, but I've recently come across a group of people my age who were, and they are 90% just like me, only with a one more thing to be content with.

- -Barrett
[/b]

Then let the bible be sold in religious shops. Im talking about if the bible is sold in Wal Mart, then all of the other books and pornos sould be sold there (i really dont want that though)

One of the arguments atheists used in banning prayer in school and attempting to ban the bible is that Christians are attempting force their views and lifestyle upon them.

By forcing the bible to be removed from Wal-Mart, are not you atheists attempting to exert your will over the Christians? Seems the same to me.

In any event, your little petition will have absolutely no effect. With Wal-Mart, it's all about the almighty dollar. Wal-Mart makes quite a bit of change selling bibles and other Christian oriented material. Are you saying that because selling the Bible offends you that Wal-Mart should take a hit in the pocketbook?

Are the atheists of the world willing to pony up to the bar and reimburse Wal-Mart this lost revinue? Or perhaps you could suggest that they sell porno magazines to make it up. Come on, we all know that Playboy is really art, right?

I've got to side with Gwen here, you are advocating censorship and are forcing your will. You know one of the reasons atheists have been so successful in their endevours? It's because mainstream Christianity advocates peace and understanding. They have turned the other cheek, and an understanding cheek at that all of these times when atheists have attacked.

The atheist will say, "I find your religion offensive and am doing everything in my power to free people from having to hear about your god or look at you. We have no use for god."

The Christian will say, "Well, OK, I can see your point. I will not force my beliefs on you, but know, I am here to help if you ever need me, and there is a God who loves you very much".

I know which group of people I would rather hang out with.

"Reverse-prejudice" is still prejudice, be it racism or (a)theism.

Both sides are equally guilty.

Yo seeker.
Absence of an element is not what is causing the problem, but the presence of the book is. Your argument is like this. If i am playing loud music at 3:00 in the morning, my neighbors will get pissed. The cops show up and make me turn it off. Now by your logic, i shouldnt have to turn it off, because it is my right to do what i want in my home. It is the person or party that is doing the action that must change, not the bystander. In this case, it is the selling of an inflamatory book. I randomly shoot a gun into a croud. "I have the right to fire a gun and they were just in my way". You hit a bystander on the side of the road with your car. "He shouldnt have been there". Dont get me wrong. If you read my earlier posts you will see i really dont give a fuck about this whole subject. Im just trying to make sense of it through logic.

PS Seeker
Did you read my post about why i turned my back on Christianity?
And about Christians not forcing their religion on people. PLEASE. If you have ever seen south park about the poor, hungary Etheopians, "remember, loving god +accepting jesus =food" Your statement about what an atheist would say is inflamatory, completely false, and stereotypical. As was your statement about what a christian would say "cough: the biggest group of murders, thieves and torturers history has seen:cough". Im just playin.
You say christians turn an understanding cheek. Ohhh, so thats why there have been so many minority, non judeo-christian presidents. Please. Christianity ridicules and excludes people for having a different belief system. Why do you think i got kicked out of my private school. I told my dean of students, who happened to be a priest, that i didnt believe in god, and that son of a bitch told me there was no room for me at their institution. I had to leave all of my best friends, football, and girlfriend behind because of your "accepting, cheek turning saints". I know first hand through experience Christians exclude

wasn't the bible letter only meant to point out walmart's hypocrisy on censorship? i didn't think it was really against christianity or some antitheists trying to persecute a religion at all....

Originally Posted by Hominus

PS Seeker
Did you read my post about why i turned my back on Christianity?
And about Christians not forcing their religion on people. PLEASE. If you have ever seen south park about the poor, hungary Etheopians, "remember, loving god +accepting jesus =food" Your statement about what an atheist would say is inflamatory, completely false, and stereotypical. As was your statement about what a christian would say "cough: the biggest group of murders, thieves and torturers history has seen:cough". Im just playin.
You say christians turn an understanding cheek. Ohhh, so thats why there have been so many minority, non judeo-christian presidents. Please. Christianity ridicules and excludes people for having a different belief system. Why do you think i got kicked out of my private school. I told my dean of students, who happened to be a priest, that i didnt believe in god, and that son of a bitch told me there was no room for me at their institution. I had to leave all of my best friends, football, and girlfriend behind because of your "accepting, cheek turning saints". I know first hand through experience Christians exclude
[/b]

Well, I guess I am a bad Christian then. Christianity, most religions for that matter, are about tolerance and acceptance. They are not about their followers imposing their will upon others. God does not demand your worship and obediance and it is wrong for any follower to put someone under condemnation for this. In fact the interpretation I get is that he is not really happy about such actions himself.

Yes, I read about your experience and am truly sorry to hear about them. If it makes you feel better, I appologize for the way you were treated. It was wrong, very wrong.

I wish all people, especially the judgemental Christians, would take a moment to sit back and contemplate just what it means to be Christ-like, many now are doing more harm than good. I can sense this in most of the topics that are posted in the R&S forum. In fact, it is this bitterness, hate, and hurtfulness that keeps me from posting in here often.

I condem no religions, atheism included, yes, atheism is a religion. In fact, I can find good in almost all systems of belief. I wish everyone could just see....the Buddists come closest to the concept, so difficult to express and even more difficult to live. The concept of loving acceptance of all things.

It is truly liberating when you reach this state. You see, I was one of those judgemental Christians twenty years ago. Now I am free.

I thank the author of this topic. It angered me when I first read it, but then after spending a couple of days to understand my anger, I now understand.

I finish this with a blissful smile on my face and peace in my heart. I will not be posting any more on this topic, having said all that I needed to say.

Go forth in peace and be well!

I'm totally against censorship, the only way to fight ignorance is to let everything be available. You can only hope that people will use rationale and analyze what they read.

Now about Athiests pushing their stance upon others, It is actually kind of a war. Both sides are definitely on the offensieve. Christians impose laws based on there religious beliefs, stem cells, abortion,putting "in god we trust" in the last 60 years on currency and the pledge of allegiance. Athiests are definitely in the minority and they definitely lack a voice in politics. The only way they can fight the things that violate their beliefs is to try an remind the government and public institutions to remain secular as they were meant to. Wal-Mart doesn't fall into that category but can you honestly say it doesn't make you ill at ease that wal mart probably doesn't sell a single other sacred book from another religion? (I say probably because I haven't checked this for myself)

So when it comes to censorship everything is judged on morality within christian parameters. I see this petition as putting christians on the other end for a change. Within a secular view the Bible certainly contains highly controversial messages like the ones outlined within that petition. It's attempt to make those in charge of censorship come to their senses.

I can see that nobody watched the video, made assumptions about my position when I haven't said much of anything, and are also misinterpreting the purpose of the letter.

But thanks for playing!

Thanks for being a GOOD christian Seeker. I can see that you are truely acting like the bible tells you you should. I can perfectly tolerate people like you because you're a reasonable person.

Why cant there be more like you. YOU SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

Peace, and yea, the last few years have SUCKED ASS

Everything is ok in moderation. Even religios indoctrination.

walmart is the devil.
and yet i'll probably end up there again
within a month

Religious moderation is NOT ok.

Read the author Sam Harris, he makes good arguments.

And no, I'm not blindly accepting everything he has to say.

It's a book, with words and pages. I know buddhists and hindis who have read the bible for wisdom. I have no problem with you being an athiest, and I won't try and push my beliefs on you I just feel you should have the same respect for me.

Originally Posted by Seeker

In any event, your little petition will have absolutely no effect. With Wal-Mart, it's all about the almighty dollar. Wal-Mart makes quite a bit of change selling bibles and other Christian oriented material...
[/b]

Exactly. Not only that, but the fact that it's an online petition doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Seeker

wasn't the bible letter only meant to point out walmart's hypocrisy on censorship? i didn't think it was really against christianity or some antitheists trying to persecute a religion at all....
[/b]

Ding! Although it did also go to highlight some apparent Christian bias on Wal Mart's part (not surprising, really).

Originally Posted by Seeker

Now about Athiests pushing their stance upon others, It is actually kind of a war. Both sides are definitely on the offensieve. Christians impose laws based on there religious beliefs, stem cells, abortion,putting "in god we trust"...
[/b]

Let's stop talking about what atheists and Christians are doing (and don't take this as directed solely at you). There is no war. I'm not on some kind of conquest to crush religion. I'm not constructing a catapult in my backyard to fire at the church beside my house. When I find one of those little pamphlets hanging on my doorknob telling me to come down and hear the good word I crumple it up, shake my head and forget about it. (although last time they tempted me with iced cream... almost worked, too) Honestly, I have more important things to think about than plots to destroy the theists. Things like which socks I'm going to wear tomorrow, or weather I should buy root beer or iced tea.

When discrimination arises, that's when I have problems. When religious views cloud political decisions, that is also a problem. But I could really not care less about what anyone's religion is.

So, no, let's not generalize like that. We're not all rallying under the same flag, here. Even those of us on the same "side" aren't necessarily trying to accomplish the same thing.

PS

I watched that video; It is now my bible.

Originally Posted by Manifold_Time

www.thebibleletter.com

The letter was made by some people from www.godisimaginary.com. It argues that the Holy Bible violates Wal-Mart's rules of censorship and needs to be taken off the shelves.

I signed it. I feel more active about my atheism now.
[/b]

First of all, the Wal-Mart petition is absolutely hilarious. I give the creator of it two thumbs way up! It is complete satire, and it makes its point very well. The point of it is that "Two can play at this game." It illustrates that the Christian individuals who are out to censor everything they don't like can in theory have it thrown right back at them. Brilliant!

I have made the point here many times that I am an atheist. I generally get no trouble for that on a personal level, but I do have a major problem with not being able to buy hard liquor in my county (I just moved back to the suburbs after living downtown.), not being able to buy beer on Sundays and after 11 p.m. on weekdays, having my favorite strip clubs now in a dangerous ghetto due to a Baptist imposed zoning ordinance that destroyed the phenomenal strip club scene Jackson once had, the dumb ass war on drugs that I know has a religious basis, the worry of trying to (in theory, not yet in reality) get a woman a first or second trimester abortion (no fetal consciousness at those stages) and being stampeded by nutty protestors at the clinic, and a few other inconveniences. The satire the petition has created sends a good message that is meant to do nothing more than put the hypocrites (not all Christians) in their places logically in the ongoing social debate.

Originally Posted by Manifold_Time

One of the arguments atheists used in banning prayer in school and attempting to ban the bible is that Christians are attempting force their views and lifestyle upon them.

By forcing the bible to be removed from Wal-Mart, are not you atheists attempting to exert your will over the Christians? Seems the same to me.

In any event, your little petition will have absolutely no effect. With Wal-Mart, it's all about the almighty dollar. Wal-Mart makes quite a bit of change selling bibles and other Christian oriented material. Are you saying that because selling the Bible offends you that Wal-Mart should take a hit in the pocketbook?

Are the atheists of the world willing to pony up to the bar and reimburse Wal-Mart this lost revinue? Or perhaps you could suggest that they sell porno magazines to make it up. Come on, we all know that Playboy is really art, right?

I've got to side with Gwen here, you are advocating censorship and are forcing your will. You know one of the reasons atheists have been so successful in their endevours? It's because mainstream Christianity advocates peace and understanding. They have turned the other cheek, and an understanding cheek at that all of these times when atheists have attacked.

The atheist will say, "I find your religion offensive and am doing everything in my power to free people from having to hear about your god or look at you. We have no use for god."

The Christian will say, "Well, OK, I can see your point. I will not force my beliefs on you, but know, I am here to help if you ever need me, and there is a God who loves you very much".

I know which group of people I would rather hang out with.
[/b]

I don't think any sane person really believes that Wal-Mart executives are going to read it and say, "Well, all of these people want us to stop selling the Bible. I guess we will." Lost revenue from not making money off the Bible would be the least of their worries. The biggest worry would be about the severe backlash they would get from society for deciding not to sell the Bible because atheists came out with a petition. That would destroy the retail empire. Not too many people are actually expecting that.

Although I love to debate religion with willing participants and have my views against the imposition of Christianity on my society, I am not out to convert people to atheism. I don't see all Christians as enemies. I have many of them in my family, and I never even discuss the subject with them because they don't want to discuss it. I always ignore debates about religion if not everybody in the room is a willing participant. I save my arguments for places like this forum where people know what they are signing up for. Most atheists are not concerned with converting people to atheism. We know that a lot of good does result from religion. I myself would love to believe in my own immortality. I would also like to believe that the creator of my universe is infinitely powerful and totally good. People who believe in such a thing and don't want to shove it down my throat and don't show up on my debate grounds don't get any argument from me.

Also, Playboy is art. The articles are written by professional journalists, not that I ever read them, and the photography is professional. There is an art to selecting the right beauty queens and getting them to pose well. Even supermodels can have bad pictures. The best masturbation material isn't photographed by some regular Joe with a polaroid.

Originally Posted by Manifold_Time

www.thebibleletter.com

The letter was made by some people from www.godisimaginary.com. It argues that the Holy Bible violates Wal-Mart's rules of censorship and needs to be taken off the shelves.

I signed it. I feel more active about my atheism now.
[/b]

Oh, good, we'll all feel safer tonight knowing there is another active atheist prowling about.

There is nothing more reassuring than to know then that a person has absolutely no reason to be moral or ethical.

And people are so proud of being Atheists. What, must be the Pride of Lucifer.

But, honestly, without any reason to ever justify goodness, nobility, sharing or altruism -- all things that have always rested on the assumption of the existence of a Providential Heaven -- without the influence of Divinity and Spirituality, well, you are just a Knife waiting to be plunged into all of our backs.

Just so you can conveniently be just so much better off than you were before.

Because ultimately the only argument for Atheism is convenience. Morality only gets in the way of the Atheist's drive for success.

They murder God to justify stealing the Candlesticks from the Church.

Leo, you are one sad, sad man.

I am as strong as an atheist can get, but i am still a moral person. I dont kick babies in the trought at random. But, you said it yourself, we have no reasons to act moral.

For Christians, the reasons are either hope of reward (heaven) or fear of punishment (hell). Not because its the right thing to do. Do you think god smiles on you when you give a burger to a homeless person. NOOO. READ THE BIBLE.

So i give YOU the chalange of following what your precious "bible" says. Give up all your possessions and join the poor. If you dont your a bad christian. Sorry.

Its easy to go online and ramble on like you do. You have no idea about atheism and obviously your own own religion either.

Another thing, how many atheist mass murderers have there been compared to hard core christians.

.......................................I await my answer.

And im glad that you think God can be murdered!!
I'll jump on that right away

Leo, are you actually serious? I can see how this sort of thing could pass as sensible centuries ago, but really - the times have changed. You just have to look around you to realise your little rant was unfounded.

There is nothing more reassuring than to know then that a person has absolutely no reason to be moral or ethical. [/b]

For someone devoid of morals/ethics this atheist sure did a good job of identifying immoral sections of the bible (albeit through satire). Sections that almost all christians seem to ignore.

Because ultimately the only argument for Atheism is convenience. Morality only gets in the way of the Atheist's drive for success.[/b]

Actually, the argument is usually more along the lines of "god doesn't exist, so I'm an atheist". Convenience. What a joke.

This has to be a joke.. right?