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Some Christians it would appear spend their lives condemning the pleasure of others ansd seeing evil where none exsits. The celebration of Hallowe'en and Christmas gets those puritans shaking their heads and trying to make everyone else as miserable as they appear to be!
Now old Jesus seemed to be a sociable guy who liked to party. I wonder if he would tell these miseries to lighten up and take less water with it? LOL!
Then again, you have mindless consumers wasting their life on a neverending thrill search, loudly stating how anti-religious they are and the dumbness of others. These people are called low-lives, whose vast unhappiness and sociophobia arises only from their lack of faith in themselves, as well as the great uncertainity of this life they have such troubles coping with.
loveapple: I think your post is childish and silly, has no substance and smells of extremely little forethought. I bet you wrote this in ten seconds, just after reading something on a web page. You even end your post with 'LOL'. Usually I just ignore posts as these, but your mature age combined with other silly messages I've seen you spitting out on the forums, makes the whole deal embarassing and a pain to watch.
I'm saying this for your own good. Grow Up.
Like some dude on an american TV shows said:
'Bush keeps telling how his actions are right because he loves Jesus, so what, the important thing is wether jesus would love Him.'
I'm sorry, but this is just rediculas.
Loveapple, please, it is obvias that you have a problim with most fundimentalist Christians. I think that it would be a good idea to just make a thread: "Why I hate/dislike funimentalist Christians" and leave it at that.
Why do you keep making posts about how "riddiculas" those Christians who follow the Bible strictly are?
Maby thay are onto something. Who knows?
Thanks for the giggle, I must repeat your post to my grandchildren as a prime example of the point I am trying to make! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by arh
I suspect that if Jesus was here today he would have a lot to say to the Christian fundamentalists who use and abuse the Bible to make others miserable! I have a BIG problem with some fundamentalist Chrisitans having been spiritually abused by the hell-fire and end times scenarios at the pentecostal church I was forced to attend. My paternal grandmother kept telling me from the age of two years how naughty little girls burnt in hell. That sort of abuse should be illegal! Unfortunately it is alive and well on fundamentalist Christian websites!
yes, of course every problim in sociaty stems from fundimentalist Christian, and not from being raised improperly, Christian or no.
Don't tell me that you think that you should not raise children according to the Moral standerd in the Bible. Because if you dont, the schools will. 90% of the worlds problims stem from being raised improperly, and not taught the love of a true family.
The Bible is NOT a child care manual! Some of it is totally immoral imo! There is not much love in the OT! Abraham was a rubbish father, for example! The Harry Potter books are more moral!Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
My children were brought up well and are a credit to my husband, an atheist, and myself. Our grandchildren are being well brought up too. Christianity certainly doesn't ensure a good upbringing, just the opposite sometimes!
you just keep telling yourself that. I mean I am sure that the Bible doesn't tell children to obay there parents, that parents must be loyal to there children, and so forthQuote:
Originally Posted by loveapple
I'm sorry, what? Where on earth is it immoral? The Commandments? The Acts? I dont follow you.Quote:
Some of it is totally immoral imo!
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... I seriasly dont get you. You loved his son, and did what God told him to do. Holding your Creator above the gifts He gives doesn't seem stupid to me.Quote:
There is not much love in the OT! Abraham was a rubbish father, for example! The Harry Potter books are more moral!
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Correction: Christianity and the morals it entails is what made the beleivers of old good people. Several modern beleives dont follow the instructions left behind properly.Quote:
My children were brought up well and are a credit to my husband, an atheist, and myself. Our grandchildren are being well brought up too. Christianity certainly doesn't ensure a good upbringing, just the opposite sometimes!
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I dont judge America on the actions of stuped americans. I know full well that there are smart americans, and that the stupid ones are in the minority. Dont judge the Bible on the actions of your community. Esspecially those who say that they beleive, but dont.
Some of the best people I know like my husband have no faith at all, he was a 'born again ' in his youth. Some of the worst call themselves 'born again' Christians. Looking at America from our side of the Atlantic Ocean, I would say that a lot of what is wrong with America is the right-wing Christian fundamentalist influence on the government, it is not healthy or good for America or the planet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
the bible condones the death penalty (so do i). The bible portrays that it is better to have your virgin daughters raped than betray guests (see: Sodom and Gahmorah). The bible condones slaughter. O yea, what a perfect book to read.
I have no problem with people raising their kids with the TEACHINGS of the bible. I think its about time that we treat the bible for what it REALLY is. A \"based on a true story\" book that teaches us how to be good people. For example, i am an atheist, but i follow most of the 10 commandments. It is when you take the fanatical and profoundly stupid stories and treat them as fact that problems arise. I mean COME ON!!!! I\'m not ripping on people for believing the bible, but people walking on water and curing the blind? A man fitting 2 of every animal on earth onto a ship? I find it offensive to the human race that intelligent beings such as ourselves will fight and die for these fairy tales.
And why are yall ripping on loveapple? So the fuck what if she put an \"lol\" at the end of her post? I\'m willing to bet she has more wisdom than many of us combined. BTW, mocking someone on a website is immature too, isnt it? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
there...now i\'m immature
i know you are but what am I!!!!???
God doesn't forbid pleasure. He condones it. In the OT He forced the Israelites to take a day off for their own good. He designed sex (within parameters). He created the cocoa bean ----> chocolate.
I don't rip on Halloween and I'd consider myself a fairly fundamentalist Christian. For me it's a great time to indulge in chocolate and dress up. I choose not to indulge in any of the more spiritual/Pegan/Wiccan aspects of Halloween for obvious reasons, but I'm not going to start yelling out "Turn or burn!" if I see kids dressed up as witches or what not.
....I'd much rather converse firmly with those skimpy 12 year-olds who wear cleavage clothes on a regular basis. Yiesh! Have some modesty.
Halloween and Christmas? That's quite a contradiction... The only way I could see Christians showing adverse reactions to Christmas is when the emphasis is taken off of Christ and onto things such as materialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by loveapple
And let's not bring dear ol' Harry into this :P I like those books.
preach on, sista! :wizard:Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
burns, i have a sneeking suspicion that you\'re not from the ghetto :)
Leviticus 20:9Quote:
Don't tell me that you think that you should not raise children according to the Moral standerd in the Bible.[/b]
"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death."
Leviticus 20:10
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 20:27
"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."
Leviticus 23:30
"And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day [the day of atonement], the same soul will I destroy from among his people."
Levicius 26:15-17
And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
Leviticus 26:21-22
And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children , and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
Leviticus 26:27-29
And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
Numbers 31:1-2, 7, 9-12, 14-18
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
. . .
And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
. . .
And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
. . .
And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Does that sum it up well enough for you?
look, all of those quotes come from the torah (old testament). People raise their children according to the new testament, in which \"Jesus\" \"taught\" good morals
Of course. You're willing to accept all of the "good stuff," but any bad stuff is automatically "in the Old Testament" or "being interpreted wrongly," so you throw that out. Well, if the Old Testament doesn't apply, then neither do the prophecies of Christ's coming in Isaiah and elsewhere, and so Christianity has no validity even in terms of its religious texts.
who said that we was disagreeing with the old?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanten
[edit] oh, and it was mostly directed at the Jewish comunity, to keep it from sin. Worked most of the time (that is: when they stoped obaying it, they suffered from there mistakes
Hm, seems like this turned into a little war. I'd just like to clarify my opinion here. I think fundamentalism is wrong, both religious and anti-religious. But that's not my point anyway.
loveapple: Blowing out some words like you did, without explaining it more thoroughly, does nothing but provoke. I see that you have a lot against fundamentalist christians because of your own upbringing, but that still is no excuse. If you cannot take the time to think it through and explain it in detail, you probably shouldn't post it. Serious discussion relies on formulating your opinion in a proper and understandable way. Respect for others, plain and simple.
We were disagreeing.. do you have to have bad grammar as well as spelling? Are you seriously saying that you accept all the examples of atrocious moral values Nanten posted as morally right? You agree with homosexuals being put to death? Or insolent children? You actually agree with such blatantly immoral actions just because they're in your bible? And this is a rather small cross section of the fucked up shit god orders/allows to happen in the bible (old and new testament) - you really do just accept ALL of it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
Can anyone say... morally bankrupt? Times like these I'm glad I don't get my morality from such an atrocious source.
did you read what I wrote at the bottem. It was for the Jews of the day. God said: "No homosexuals with my people, no mediums, and no addulterers. My people must be kept pure."Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon
I see nothing wrong with that. "If its broken, fix it."
besides, do you have a problim with the commandments? Whats wrong with staying faithful to your spoise? With respecting your parents? With loving God, and not killing?
If I child cant behave himself now, will he ever? Do you know what happens to children like that in the world?
Gangs, and rapists, and so forth. It is also an instruction to parents: Make sur you love your child enough to raise him properly, so he doesn't have to die.
You don't see anything wrong with these rules? Requiring homosexuals to be put to death? Pretty poor morality you have there for someone claiming to be tapped into the source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
But anyway - these rules don't apply to people anymore? We can be homosexual, we can be insolent to our parents, we can have other gods, we can murder, we can sleep around? Which, being a part of the 10 commandments, brings me to:
You just said that the old testament was just for the jews of the day. Using this reasoning we don't have to follow them, right?Quote:
do you have a problim with the commandments? Whats wrong with staying faithful to your spoise? With respecting your parents? With loving God, and not killing? [/b]
Christians do not have a monopoly on good parenting, nor are christian kids the only ones who know how to behave. In fact, if you look at any society today, you'll find that the same percentages of families/kids are doing just find - regardless of religion.Quote:
If I child cant behave himself now, will he ever? Do you know what happens to children like that in the world?
Gangs, and rapists, and so forth. It is also an instruction to parents: Make sur you love your child enough to raise him properly, so he doesn't have to die.[/b]
I know you think the 10 commandments are this big moral guideline, but when they're put in their proper place, against the atrocities condoned by this 'moral giver', they don't have a lot of impact. So exactly why should we accept a list of 10 rules (3/4 of which are plain silly or redundant) when we can just easily discard the rest of the old testament? Afterall, it is just for jews. Ahhh but..
Nowhere in the bible does it say that the old testament is only for jewish people. I don't even know where you'd get this idea from - save for just making it up to avoid the issue that there are some things in the bible that you just don't want to accept as true. Nice to see you getting around your own "all or nothing" rule.
So it really comes down to: you accept the 10 commandments, as well as other portions you believe are 'right' (noahs ark for some reason), and without any justification you reject other parts of the bible. Whats the reason you can't just chuck it all out and get your morality from a less atrocious source, seems perfectly valid to me.
I'm sorry, but have you even read the Bible?
Yes. I note that you didn't even answer spoon's post, probably because he completely destroyed your inconsistent beliefs.Quote:
I'm sorry, but have you even read the Bible?[/b]
... WHAT inconsistancies? I'm still trying to find themQuote:
Originally Posted by Nanten
I might see the problem here. Is english your first language? Cause if you can't see where I'm pointing out inconsistencies in my last post your reading comprehension is pretty poor. Which is cool if you don't usually use this language. If you don't I'll try to write more simply in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
oh, ha ha. Yes, english is my first language. Now, the reason I ask if you have even read the Bible is because the answer is actually expalined in the epistals. THATS why I see no problim with what you wrote.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("keeper")</div>You've actually spoken english this long and can't spell?Quote:
Yes, english is my first language.[/b]
Your post contains a direct contradiction: you can discard the old testament, yet the 10 commandments must be accepted. So there's an answer in one of the many epistles... am I supposed to have memorised them? Maybe you should just fill me in on why you think that this clear contradiction isn't one at all. Given your wont to creatively interpret passages I figure it'd be easier than me trawling through multiple books of the bible and guessing what you're talking aboutQuote:
Now, the reason I ask if you have even read the Bible is because the answer is actually expalined in the epistals. THATS why I see no problim with what you wrote.[/b]
By the way. "The bible said so" is not a reason for the bible's contradictions to make sense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("me")</div>Quote:
So it really comes down to: you accept the 10 commandments, as well as other portions you believe are 'right' and without any justification you reject other parts of the same bible. What's the reason you can't just chuck it all out and get your morality from a less atrocious source? It seems perfectly valid to me.[/b]
I know, it scares everyone I know that I speek english better even then my teachers (one is from brition), but I cant spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon
alright, I'll post the verse's, but give me a bit to find them again.Quote:
Your post contains a direct contradiction: you can discard the old testament, yet the 10 commandments must be accepted. So there's an answer in one of the many epistles... am I supposed to have memorised them? Maybe you should just fill me in on why you think that this clear contradiction isn't one at all. Given your wont to creatively interpret passages I figure it'd be easier than me trawling through multiple books of the bible and guessing what you're talking about
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The Bible doesn't contain contradications. I posed answers to that question a wial back. Hust give me a bit so that I can explain fully.Quote:
By the way. "The bible said so" is not a reason for the bible's contradictions to make sense.
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In response to your signature, Keeper:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas (Einstein's secretary) and Banesh Hoffman, and published by Princeton University Press.
Note that this isn't exactly in direct conflict with your signature, but Einstein himself did not believe in any god of any religion, unless you count Deism, perhaps.
I didn't say he did, I'm just quoting him. What he ment, who knows, but he had great respect for the Church after WWII because of there rejection of Hitler when no-one else in Germany did. Who knows what He belleved, but I think he saw something wonderful.