Thread: Would You Ever Beleive?

Guess what I voted.

But seriously, you can't possibly expect to gain any accurate feedback on the opinions of atheists, and why they believe what they do, with such a humourously biased poll.

Of course I would believe, if it were proved. It would be rather intellectually dishonest of me if I didn't. Refusing to change your beliefs in the face of evidence is a sure sign of fundamentalism.

Of course the proof would have the be something along the lines of a amputated leg growing back, writing in the stars, everyone on earth hearing the same thing, etc. Nothing second hand either, it would have to be proven to me with sufficient room for examination. And it would have to actually specify that it was actually a god (as opposed to super intelligent aliens, which seems just as likely to me), and specify which god it was. Generic miracles do not prove a specific god.

I still wouldn't worship said god though. What does an infinite being need my worship for?

So the question is keeper: what would it take for you to become an atheist?

Oh, and just to nitpick: you have Buddhism in your list of religions to accept over atheism. You can happily be atheist and Buddhist at the same time.

Okay, my first answer that I voted was dishonestly cynical. spoon makes some good points.

So, my real answers: "Would you? (not just Christianity, but also Islam, Hindi religions, Buddisim, Wicca, etc.)
Yes, if you can proove it to me"

No. I would not believe ANYTHING if anyone "prooved" it to me. Something is not proven by a person to me. I'd have to prove it to myself, and satisfy myself. What anyone else said, and their arguments, would not themselves have much of an effect on me. I consider myself to be an able enough arguer to be able to competently refute any argument made by a person towards the existence of God.

And in any case, there are two types of Christians: The Logos, and the Mythos. Logical and Mystical, roughly. I think the Logos is dead. I believe it to be point-blank impossible to prove god through reasoning. The Mythos is possible but by very nature, illogical. Therefore, for me to believe it would take a "personal experience".

"If you said yes what would convince you?" Like I said, a personal experience. But, something of a very high order. Pretty much, nothing short of myself sprouting wings and regaining lost memories of being an Angel of the Christian Pantheon, and angelic powers and divine conscious ling to God.

That's not exactly everything, and somewhat misleading as to my actual position on this thread, but it's close enopugh to the reality.

The question is a bit inprecise. If I would believe in something or not - it would be always the same.
Millions of facts we got around us and no one asks us whether we believe in them or not...
Things like stars, planets, lakes, trees, animals...etc. do exist and they don't need to be believed or not.
To me it's obvious.

There is no proof for God. God cannot be proven or disproven. If you want to believe, that is fine. but, keep it to yourself...don't go around trying to "prove" God to people...you will end up making yourself look silly. It is just you trying to reassure yourself that you are on the right path by forcing others to believe, also.

Also, you need to understand that a large percentage of Atheists and Agnostics used to be Christians. I spent most of my life being a Christian, and I personally, after much study, came to the conclusion that Christianity is not true.

Tell me...will you never believe in Santa Claus? Even if I bring you thousands of children who claim to talk with him and who also claim that he blesses them with gifts every year? How can you deny Santa Claus? It should be obvious to you that he has touched many lives and has proven himself time and time again.

Originally Posted by YourImaginaryFriend

There is no proof for God. God cannot be proven or disproven. If you want to believe, that is fine. but, keep it to yourself...don't go around trying to "prove" God to people...you will end up making yourself look silly. It is just you trying to reassure yourself that you are on the right path by forcing others to believe, also.

Also, you need to understand that a large percentage of Atheists and Agnostics used to be Christians. I spent most of my life being a Christian, and I personally, after much study, came to the conclusion that Christianity is not true.

Tell me...will you never believe in Santa Claus? Even if I bring you thousands of children who claim to talk with him and who also claim that he blesses them with gifts every year? How can you deny Santa Claus? It should be obvious to you that he has touched many lives and has proven himself time and time again.
[/b]

You bring me santa claus and get him to take me for a ride on his flying sleigh then I'd beleive in him.

you know?

i'd LOVe to believe, i TRIED to believe, but my own logic, and the fact that i have seen NO evidence for a god, i've concluded that there is no god...

HOWEVER: IF there is evidence for god (ie: god appearing in fron tof me when i'm sober, not near death, or high), then i'd be sure to believe in him...

it would however, not take away my disgust for him...

Originally Posted by CryoDragoon

it would however, not take away my disgust for him...
[/b]

exactly...I have siad it a million times: Even if I am proven wrong and somehow the magical Christian God is standing before me upon death- I would rather burn in Hell than worship that monster. He makes Satan look like an innocent little schoolgirl.

here lies the problem. God cannot and will never be proven. Anyone that tells you that God actually had a conversation with them is either lying or on LSD. But i still cant prove them wrong....ah, the invincibility of faith.

In order to prove it to me, it would be much more than just some voice in my head. If you read the bible, you hear about people like Moses being frozen in their place with fear while hearing god\'s voice. I think that if God could talk to people, it would be one hell of an emotional experience. Only feeling this awesome power would make me believe.

YourImaginaryFriend, it seems your past religious quests are very similar to mine. I did my \"research\" and soul searching, and after a while the idea of God didnt fit in with any of my ideas of the world and humanity. I mainly stopped believing in god after i figured out that humans are just highly intelligent animals with opposable thumbs and emotions, and not some sort of special spiritual beings. We are just highly domesticated animals.

..........this makes me wanna go join a clan of gorillas....i dont like feeling domesticated.

Originally Posted by Hard

here lies the problem. God cannot and will never be proven. Anyone that tells you that God actually had a conversation with them is either lying or on LSD. But i still cant prove them wrong....ah, the invincibility of faith.

In order to prove it to me, it would be much more than just some voice in my head. If you read the bible, you hear about people like Moses being frozen in their place with fear while hearing god\'s voice. I think that if God could talk to people, it would be one hell of an emotional experience. Only feeling this awesome power would make me believe.

YourImaginaryFriend, it seems your past religious quests are very similar to mine. I did my \"research\" and soul searching, and after a while the idea of God didnt fit in with any of my ideas of the world and humanity. I mainly stopped believing in god after i figured out that humans are just highly intelligent animals with opposable thumbs and emotions, and not some sort of special spiritual beings. We are just highly domesticated animals.

..........this makes me wanna go join a clan of gorillas....i dont like feeling domesticated.
[/b]

haha...
I actually found this site, because somebody posted it in a thread at ExChristian.net forums.

Yes, I would believe in a gawd if one was literally PROVEN.
Simply having a good argument for the existence wouldn't be enough--I would need solid, concrete, empirical PROOF of said deity.

However, that is NOT the same as worshiping said gawd. Even IF the Christian or Islamic gawds were proven to exist, I would NEVER worship them. I disdain all needless violence and hatred, but both of those are integral parts of worshiping said deities.

I would believe it if it were logical. Whether God appears and shows it to me or a person explains it to me or I just figure it out on my own, I cannot believe Christianity until it seems logical to me. Presently, the existence of Homer Simpson seems like a more logical concept than the existence of the Christian God.

I decided to post even though I'm not an atheist or agnostic, because the thread has gone more towards a discussion on what would make one believe in the JCI God (or some similar all-powerful type being).

Would I believe in such a god? If said god is described as all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good but not also evil, then no, I won't believe in such a god. It's not possible for such a god to exist. There is no evidence for such a god because such a god does not exist. How can evidence exist for something that doesn't exist? It can't. End of story.

However, I do believe that "lesser" gods can exist without causing logical fallacies. Any god who comes and talks to me will be classified under this category, not as the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good, non-bad type... which can't exist, as previously expressed.

I could also accept the existence of a god that is all-good, all-bad, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-whatever, even though it's a logical problem for such a thing to exist. Panentheism and polytheism make sense to me as possibilities.

Like I said (it was deleted in the crash) Religious people would Never turn athiest. And only un-scientific silly athiest wouldnt deny the, no matter how incredebly small, chance of some superbeing.

Still, chance on a Christian god = 0.00000000000000000000001%, and that is rounded up.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Like I said (it was deleted in the crash) Religious people would Never turn athiest.[/b]

Not true.

My mother and father were both raised very religiously (such as: baptized, saying grace at dinner) and are now Athiest.

Even if they were religious I think I would still be athiest.

Originally Posted by Chatter

Not true.

My mother and father were both raised very religiously (such as: baptized, saying grace at dinner) and are now Athiest.

Even if they were religious I think I would still be athiest.
[/b]

Okay I should have said: Almost All religious people will never accept their 'wrong' even when confronted with undisputable proof that they are wrong.

A few studies showed that result.

My point is that it once again points out that religious people are close-minded. In their sea of knowledge they deliberately made an isle of lies to hold on to, even when swimming is way more fun.

Thanks for correcting that.

Lol so true though.

Originally Posted by CryoDragoon

you know?

i'd LOVe to believe, i TRIED to believe, but my own logic, and the fact that i have seen NO evidence for a god, i've concluded that there is no god...

HOWEVER: IF there is evidence for god (ie: god appearing in fron tof me when i'm sober, not near death, or high), then i'd be sure to believe in him...

it would however, not take away my disgust for him...[/b]

That is a pretty powerful Statement.

It would be much easier to believe. Ignorance is bliss. Not knowing sometimes sucks, I would guess even more so in our later years.
But IF i could believe, like you C Dragon, I would choose to.
Yet I can say I do not disbelieve. I have thoughts of some higher being....possibly. But better judgment steers me away from many commonplace or organized religions.


Did I post this before or did it get deleted?

http://www.time.com/time/covers/2006...at_we_believe/

I read this the other day and thanks to the Internet I can just post a link!

If god existed, he would have given us more proof. Something SO important would be much more prevelant than 1 book. Plain and simple.

Actually, though I'm an atheist, I;'m going to take a devil's advocate (pun intended) viewpoint and argue for Christianity:

Originally Posted by Hard

If god existed, he would have given us more proof. Something SO important would be much more prevelant than 1 book. Plain and simple.[/b]

How many books would you like? And actually, the bible has MANY books, and there are plenty more in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other sources excluded from the bible from the official church.

Your argument is overly simple and really doesn't show anything.

once again, whatever happened to ignoring my posts?

...........just playin

anyway, i would perfer MANY more books. I mean, were talking about a supernatural being that created EVERYTHING. If he wanted to show himself to us, he would have done so to more than just the Jews.

And i am one of the few who realized how much the Church has excluded from the bible. Remember, i have researched this stuff much more than the average person.

How is my argument hollow? Just because it is simple and straight to the point? It makes sense, right? Such a being would make himself prevelant to EVERYONE, not just a chosen race.

So, either god doesnt exist or he is a racist. Or he likes seeing us have wars over religion. If not, he would have spoken to people from every race and origin. But i can understand why the Jews would \"make up\" something like this. They just wanted themselves to be recgonized as the chosen race so maybe the world would respect them. Probably because of their worthless place in historical events. They just wanted to be recognized. Thats all.

Dont play the devils advocate. After all, he doesnt exist, right?

Originally Posted by The

How many books would you like? And actually, the bible has MANY books, and there are plenty more in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other sources excluded from the bible from the official church.

Your argument is overly simple and really doesn't show anything.
[/b]

I am shocked that you don't agree with him. And how the Hell is his point "overly simple"? You are way too trigger happy with that terminology. There is supposedly an ongoing world wide emergency that is infinitely more serious than a world wide nuclear attack, and the only thing that can save anybody is the possibility of believing one big book (that was written in ancient times and argues that the Earth is 6 thousand years old, the sun "stopped" one time, all of the kingdoms of the world were seen at once from a high elevation, a burning bush dictated humanity's major rules, and that God hates queers). Hard as Nails was saying that a GOD would make it where something so incredibly important would have more evidence than that. The Dead Sea Scrolls are not what Christians accept as the final authority on this ENORMOUS matter. And the "books" in the Bible do come together and form one overall book. Don't you think that something so astoundingly important should have more evidence than that stuff? Even if the Dead Sea Scrolls count as ultimate Christian authority, which they don't (Christians say the Bible is "THE word of God".), the world was given a pretty skimpy set of evidence to let their eternal souls work with. Don't you think?

Devil's advocate again.

Originally Posted by Hard

How is my argument hollow? Just because it is simple and straight to the point? It makes sense, right? Such a being would make himself prevelant to EVERYONE, not just a chosen race. [/b]

Simple argument:

He already HAS. Christianity is the world's biggest religion. Perhaps rather than detracting evidence, the presence of a SINGLE BOOK, the Bible, is evidence FOR god's existance. How else could ONE BOOK result in a religion that spans the globe, if it were not inspired by god?

The quantity of writings is irrelevant. What matters is the effect.


Devil's advocate again:

Originally Posted by Hard

the world was given a pretty skimpy set of evidence to let their eternal souls work with. Don't you think?[/b]

Not really. There's a big enough problem with Christians not reading the Bible as it is. If God had made 42 giant libraries, do you really think that would help things? No.

Again, the volume of writings is irrelevant. What matters is the EFFECT. If God had made much more "evidence" it would likely just confuse believers further, and prevent the spread of the religion. Rather than do that, God may have decided on the perfect balance between narrative, allegory, meaning, message and length that is the Bible. What matters is the EFFECT. Which is obvious: Christianity spans the globe, and is the world's largest religion.

in any case, why would god only show himself to the Jew\'s ancestors? Why not everyone on every corner of the globe? Once again, either god likes conflict or he doesnt exist.