Thread: Are mormons racist?

Well the teachings in most religions are racist to other religions, sexes, racial background, class, way of life etc. It;s just usually those parts are not taken literally( of course right now we see how some muslim extremists are taking their book literally right now, dieing for a cause against an enemy of Islam is the ultimate way into paradise)

People in the crusades did it because they believed it was their divine mission to convert or destory, this was taught, now we bend the rules to live a happy society.

( of course right now we see how some muslim extremists are taking their book literally right now, dieing for a cause against an enemy of Islam is the ultimate way into paradise)

America is just as much extremist as muslim countries. Well, the creationism movement, Noahs ark, adam and eve and earth being a three thousand years old, most americans proberly believe in this non sense. If it wasn't nonsense their would be peer review evidence for creationism and historical evidence for noahs ark e.t.c. Also jesus and moses should have evidence.

It;s just usually those parts are not taken literally

Fundamentist christicianity is popular. If you believe in creationism then you are a fundy.

I guess if you're religious you need faith to believe in the mythology of religion or ignorance. Well, I just found out that the dalai lama is evil. As he used to be a dictator having slave surbs were he ruled like a monarch and toture e.t.c were common. Look up dalai lama and the CIA, the dalai lama used CIA money to try and get back Tibet were his palace is. I hate every religion now and I'm not a buddhist no more. Penn and Teller greatest show ever.

not a buddhist because of one man, buddhist is about inner peace and finding yourself, im pretty sure you can still be buddhist, your commitment was weak if you stop being a buddhist because of something you here about one man, even if he is important.

Oh and hey you dont post any personal info, i always wondered how old you are, sex, interests etc. Your posts always seem very direct and you have strong views.

Also your Avatar scares me, can you change it back to that south park character, that didn't scar me like a dude with some crazy ass machine on his head!!

not a buddhist because of one man, buddhist is about inner peace and finding yourself, im pretty sure you can still be buddhist, your commitment was weak if you stop being a buddhist because of something you here about one man, even if he is important.

Dalai lama is mean't to be a improtant Icon of this religion. If you see that this figure who is mean't to be improtant in buddhism is corrupt then it does take away trust. How can I trust buddhism now not to be crap. Inner peace my head hurts twenty four seven and plus buddhism is not so much about inner peace then reincarnation and enlightenment.

Oh and hey you dont post any personal info, i always wondered how old you are, sex, interests etc. Your posts always seem very direct and you have strong views.

Strong views haven't heard that before.

Also your Avatar scares me, can you change it back to that south park character, that didn't scar me like a dude with some crazy ass machine on his head!!

You don't like stanley kubrick, you should be ashamed of yourself.

the pic scares me!!! and im dumd and slow so what are you saying when you write "Strong views haven't heard that before.", as in im asking something strong? Ahh i ams confused

Originally Posted by joey11223

what are you saying when you write "Strong views haven't heard that before."

She [? This new forum seems to be missing the gender symbols. I don't like to say "they" since my room-mate told me off about it. I guess its more polite to guess based on username and/or behaviour]

She was just saying that no-one had told her she "had strong views" before. Of course, only she knows what she meant by that phrase :-).

Often people say this in a sarcastic way - "strange you should mention that, no-one else seems to notice the gaping hole in my forehead". Or it can be taken as a straight statement that everyone mentions the same thing, but that no-one has said it using those exact words. I think its funny that you can read that same phrase these two different ways, but in the end they both mean pretty much the same thing.

Personally I value considered communication above strong opinion. Not that I'd dare claim I'm any less obnoxious or attention seeking :-D. Look at this post of mine, its far too long :-). I did once get fed up with wendylove's post and tried to steer her round to my point of view. I can read and understand her post on its own; you don't spend years on teh web without developing certain ... filters. It's the ensuing ... discussion that I get annoyed by. Oh well, "the world would be boring if we were all the same".

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Ontopic : it doesn't look like their doctrine is very racist. Mormons may generally be regarded as particularly odd, but I reckon that's just down to them being relatively new as a religion. Trying to define "odd" objectively in religious terms would be like building castles in quicksand. If you want to criticise religion as a whole, better to tackle more widely held beliefs.

Personally I'm not offended by anti-homosexual religions either. If your religion seems to be incompatible with who you are, you need to make your mind up whether you're really homosexual and staying that way, whether you're really Mormon/Catholic/whatever and staying that way, whether you're religion is really incompatible, and whether you want to challenge your established religion or not. There's plenty of freedom of choice there, and most of the actual problems are completely separate - the way your church handles doctrine and dissenters, the way people will think about you if you abandon your religion, etc.

What offends me is "fundamentalism". An attitude which doesn't admit to faith, the possibility that it might be wrong, the assertion that dissenters are evil, must be punished, appearing to take pleasure from the belief that dissenters will suffer for eternity; insisting that if people won't accept your own belief then they must be forced to act as if they did.

I would hate to be seen as not respecting someone's beliefs and by trivialising them by saying that they can act independently of them in public life - but I have to admit to a gut reaction of pure hatred against anyone who tries to influence politics using any degree of religious fundamentalism. Its probably the radical atheism of my childhood shining through :-).

wow nice post, you remind of this guy on another forum, he could write books with his posts, sometimes if he's on like a meaning of life or happiness thing then it will top 1000 words easy.:p

Originally Posted by sourcejedi

Personally I'm not offended by anti-homosexual religions either. If your religion seems to be incompatible with who you are, you need to make your mind up whether you're really homosexual and staying that way, whether you're really Mormon/Catholic/whatever and staying that way, whether you're religion is really incompatible, and whether you want to challenge your established religion or not. There's plenty of freedom of choice there, and most of the actual problems are completely separate - the way your church handles doctrine and dissenters, the way people will think about you if you abandon your religion, etc.

I would like to challenge that. Religious belief probably won't change that easily. Sure, eventually one would realize that the doctrine "homosexuals are evil" is a load of crap, and consequently wonder whether the rest of the religion is sound. But this would take a while, and in between the time that "one" finds his/her sexuality, and the time "one" questions their religion, "one" will surely face months of self-torture, thinking "have I turned evil", etc. Religious beliefs are very tenacious.

Until 1950/1951/1952, one of those, Mormonism was officially racist.

So yes. Probably a lot of Mormons are still racist.

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

eventually one would realize that the doctrine "homosexuals are evil" is a load of crap, and consequently wonder whether the rest of the religion is sound. But this would take a while, and in between the time that "one" finds his/her sexuality, and the time "one" questions their religion, "one" will surely face months of self-torture, thinking "have I turned evil", etc.

Hmm. You're right; it's right up there with racism. Sorry if I offended anyone by not being offended . I plead insanity from attempting to read OSC's homophobic and otherwise irrational essays after enjoying his science fiction (beginning with Enders Game). Defendant also requests leniency on the grounds of being unable to take religion seriously. I can debate it 'til the cows come home but I have difficulty imagining how it would actually affect me.

I would like to say that religions in tolerant societies like to think of / portray themselves as not being homophobic. The idea being that homosexuality is just another sin which is genetically predisposed, allowing for forgiveness, "loving the sinner", and to a large degree acceptance of celibate homosexuals. But that doesn't stop it being offensive and generally patronising to boot.

Hi, getting back to the original question of "Is the Morman religion racist?" Oh man, Oh man. What they originally had to say about Black Americans or any Black people anywhere is so foul that it cannot be repeated here. Talk about slow. Those people are way slow. Although they tried to rearrange their original thoughts about the subject in 1950, 51, 52 old prejudices ride hard and rarely git off their horses. I for one would never join a church that couldnt get it right from the get go.
Vee

Please dont start mormon bashing (and it is Mormon not Morman). We are not racist. If you want to make an argument aginst my church thats OK as long as you know what your talking about. At least be spicific, dont just say 'Oh their totally rasist, I cant even repeat what they used to say'. The truth is Joseph Smith was very anti-slavery. I think what Neruo was talking about was the fact that the church did not allow blacks to have the preisthood untell 1978. Just as Christ did not allow the gosple to go to the gentiles for some time. Mormons are some of the least rasist people you will ever meet.

Yes I just has inspiration. Penn and Teller Bullshit episode boyscouts they are run by mormons or mormans, now they don't let homosexuals have anything to do with boyscouts. Their is no evidence that suggest homosexuals are going to touch the boys as homosexuals are less likely to actually touch children then heterosexual.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=__sJ5a6ZB7s

So you agree that mormans are homophobic 27.

I thought this was about racism not homosexuals and the church. But to respond to your question, a great artical about how the church views homosexuality can be found here

Hi 27,
Ok...How many Mormons in your church are Black. By the way, I can quote you what your founding fathers said. "Black people are just above the Monkey, but they are not human." How's that for the founding father's incredible insight. It's true that all Mormons are not racist. I'm sure of that. The trouble is most of them still are. (Ive heard their talk in the track kitchen on the horse race tracks.) I know what they say.
Vee

Originally Posted by 27

I thought this was about racism not homosexuals and the church. But to respond to your question, a great artical about how the church views homosexuality can be found here

From the article:

Applying the First Presidency’s distinction to the question of same-sex relationships, we should distinguish between (1) homosexual (or lesbian) “thoughts and feelings” (which should be resisted and redirected), and (2) “homosexual behavior” (which is a serious sin).

The thing is though, someone who "resists the homosexual feelings" is basically lying to himself. All those gays who marry heterosexually to pretend to live a normal life are lying to themselves, and lying to their spouses... isn't there a commandment about lying? I don't see a commandment about being gay...

Vee, I'd love to know where you found that quote, and I'll concede that there may be some racist Mormons just as there may be some racist Baptists, Catholics or racist people in any other religion.

Replicon, couldn't they also be honest with themselfs and with their spouses about thier sexuality? Just as the artical states, it's homosexual behaior that is condemned not homosexual feelings. There are plenty of openly gay people in the curch that either choses to marry someone of the opposite sex or that chose to remain celibate throughout their lives.

Originally Posted by 27

Replicon, couldn't they also be honest with themselfs and with their spouses about thier sexuality? Just as the artical states, it's homosexual behaior that is condemned not homosexual feelings. There are plenty of openly gay people in the curch that either choses to marry someone of the opposite sex or that chose to remain celibate throughout their lives.

I have yet to meet someone who's openly gay, and has married someone of the opposite sex, such that everyone's ok with it. "I'm gay... will you marry me anyway?" "Sure, why not. We'll have kids or something..."

Consider this: Let's say things were reversed. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the world is gay, and you're straight. Would you honestly be able to marry some other guy, because that's the norm? Of course not, because that's who you are. That makes as much sense as choosing to "believe" in something because of the odds. You don't really "believe" you just say you do.

Yes, because you've never meet anyone like that they don't exist.

And it's not a matter of following the 'norm', It's a matter of faith. I'm not dicussing homosexuals who marry a person of the opposite sex to hide their sexuality, I'm talking about thoses who accept their sexuality but for religious reasons do not act on it (of whome there are many, some of whome I personally know).

I know they exist, but are a minority among the minority. They can do what they want, but their "faith" is basically getting in the way of their happiness. I bet they secretly wish the faith could dictate something more open-minded.

I don't think you have a right to speak for them.

Regardless, we've taken this way off topic. This went from being about racism and mormonism, to homophobia and mormonism to questioning about how happy gay mormons are.

Originally Posted by 27

I don't think you have a right to speak for them.

Really, I was speaking on the behalf of gays who have told me stories of what they've had to go through, and what horrible things some "saved" people have said to them.

Still off-topic but,

I agree with you, I've heard stories of horrible things done to gay people by religious fanatics, which is why I love my religion. We do all we can to extend love, understanding, and support to those with same gender atraction. We don't that say that it's nessicary to change or even that change is possible. I would ask you not to be careful not to compair us to those people who torture and abuse gay people in the hope of "making them strait".

I know we're off-topic, but it's a silly topic. If we started worrying about every passage that insinuated racism, we'd bring the servers down .