Theism vs. Deism

Aside from providing me with ample entertainment, one annoying thing I'm noticing in this forum is that people are throwing around the word "Theist" without necessarily knowing what it means. It's just used as the generic blanket statement for "not atheist" or something... So I'd like to clear this up:

- A deist is someone who believes in a deity/god-like creator.
- A theist is a deist who also believes in "revelation", which roughly means that this creator hangs around, has revealed itself to humans, and so on and so fourth. Often, it's associated with scriptures, worship, etc.

Now, with that in mind, I also enjoy how most of the heated debates here happen on one of two fronts: morals and creation. But why are there no debates in between the two, I asked myself. Well, it's time to have one.

Let's say you're a true theist (i.e. not the loser who says "because I have nothing to lose, I'll just believe in something so there's a chance to go to heaven"). Why are you a theist and not a deist? I mean, maybe through lots of thinking, you've come to the conclusion that this scientific explanation for stuff is a load of crap, and there really has to be a deity (or at least aliens) involved. That step is perfectly understandable. But why do you make the leap to say that this deity must be praised and worshipped?

While everyone is perfectly welcome to answer, I'm mostly interested in answers by those who are true to their faiths. And by that I mean, those who have questioned it, and come to the conclusion that it really is for them.

...because I didn't become agnostic overnight. I started out catholic, and eventually became a deist. THEN I became agnostic... but I have to say, going from theist to deist was a MUCH bigger leap than going from deist to agnostic, which just kind of fell into place.

I think God is outside of time so of course he "still hangs around", he can't really help it. He should be praised and worshiped because he created us. If he just made the Universe and "left" it, what would be the point of making it, and making humans? He made humans with the purpose of having a relationship with him, not just leaving them there pointlessly.

If I understand correctly, Deism doesn't even have to mean a conscious god.

And both can go hand in hand with evolution, if you ask me.

I might be wrong.

Deism > Theism. Deism is less "OMG I R SO CERTIAN I GO KILL U UNBELIEFER >: ("

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Originally Posted by Jeremysr

I think God is outside of time so of course he "still hangs around", he can't really help it. He should be praised and worshiped because he created us. If he just made the Universe and "left" it, what would be the point of making it, and making humans? He made humans with the purpose of having a relationship with him, not just leaving them there pointlessly.

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hmmm he made have made us but does that mean we should worship him and build our lifes around that, is that what he would want for us. Surely he made us to see what we wiuld become, not to watch us spending all our time worshipping him and fighting about it instead of exploring science and technology to better ourselfs, im sure thats what id want for my children, not for them to spend their whole lifes kissing my ass and fighting over who i loved most.

lol. What a strange conclusion: "He created us, so we should worship him.". I don't even worship my parents, and they created me and raised me more then your god has (If he would exist).

I especially wouldn't worship my creator (parents) if they let my brothers die from pointless things, disease, war, children getting raped... I wouldn't respect that kind of parents, that kind of 'creator'.

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Originally Posted by joey11223

hmmm he made have made us but does that mean we should worship him and build our lifes around that, is that what he would want for us. Surely he made us to see what we wiuld become, not to watch us spending all our time worshipping him and fighting about it instead of exploring science and technology to better ourselfs, im sure thats what id want for my children, not for them to spend their whole lifes kissing my ass and fighting over who i loved most.

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Why would he make us to see what we become? He's outside of time, there is no way of understanding that and he is completely different from us in that way.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

lol. What a strange conclusion: "He created us, so we should worship him.". I don't even worship my parents, and they created me and raised me more then your god has (If he would exist).

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He created us to have a relationship with him. Not just to worship him, that'd be a bit selfish of him, which is the opposite of what he really is. He deserves to be worshipped because he created us. I can prove to you that he doesn't really want the worship by showing you the Bible where it tells about the life of Jesus. Not once did he make people worship him and he didn't really put himself above people yet he was God the whole time and still is.

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I especially wouldn't worship my creator (parents) if they let my brothers die from pointless things, disease, war, children getting raped... I wouldn't respect that kind of parents, that kind of 'creator'.

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That's our fault. And I respect God for giving me life... life is better than anything even if it involves that sort of pain.

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Originally Posted by Jeremysr

He created us to have a relationship with him. Not just to worship him, that'd be a bit selfish of him, which is the opposite of what he really is. He deserves to be worshipped because he created us. I can prove to you that he doesn't really want the worship by showing you the Bible where it tells about the life of Jesus. Not once did he make people worship him and he didn't really put himself above people yet he was God the whole time and still is.

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I fail to see the connection between "he created us" and "he deserves to be worshipped"... Also, if he's so flawless, he probably doesn't really care whether or not you worship him. Therefore, shunning people who DON'T worship him is, by definition, a human shortcoming. Furthermore, IF there is a heaven, and IF god lacks all human flaws, then "getting in" has nothing to do with whether you believe in him. In fact, depending on how they live their lives, all atheists have a chance. Similarily, you could be a god-fearing, bible-thumping christian, but if you're an asshole (e.g. trying to prevent gays from being happy), you won't get in. :D

Well if he didn't create us to see how great we could become, then why did he do it, is he really so vain is to create an entire race just to worship him and nothing more?

Also in the grand scheme of the Universe, we are like a tiny tiny sand grand on a huge beach, isnt he busy caring for all the millions of other worlds and the general balance of the Universe, unless we are the only planet with life on, though i think the Bible only suggests that because we didn't really know much about space at that time.