Thread: You know what really pisses me off?

Originally Posted by BeautifulDreamer

The big thing religious people point out when speaking about religion and benefits, is morals. That is one of the only things they can credibly point out, actually. But it pisses me off to no end. As if religion is the only thing you can get moral from?

No, God is

Get a fucking clue.

Okay

Really, does it take anybody a book to tell people not to murder? Not to molest children? Of course it doesn't! It's only natural!

and why? God.

Of course, most of the said murders and child molesters are Christian, but that's another story...

If yopu rape, you arn't a christian. Confess with your actions, NOT just your words. If I said I was an athiest and then went out and killed 1.3 billion people, does that mean that athiests kill?

With the 'good' stuff, turn the other cheek, etc... It takes an individual to decide for themselves. Mass mind and doing things you wouldn't naturally do are bad for you. Why turn the other cheek when you can punch them in theirs? Or maybe you like peace, and do as it says. It depends on YOU, not what the preacher thinks or a book.

I sort of agree with that, but possibly not in the way you think ...

My point is- If you need a book, or somebody to TELL you not to kill or rape, then something is wrong with you.

But if you go around and say that there is no divine origin to morality, then what?

Another- I've found that the bad standards and morals you also get from various religions outweighs the benefits. With Christianity you tend to tromp around, hate Muslims, etc. Muslims hate Jews, etc. I could go on and on. When scripture tells you good and bad things together, it's pretty sad.

Hate = non Christian. I for one have many Islamic friends, and love an Islamic girl

If you think it takes religion to have morals, you are seriously flawed. Atheists have morals. More so then many religions because they are NEUTRAL.

But you dont say where they come from.

Originally Posted by Keeper

No, God is

Okay

and why? God.


If yopu rape, you arn't a christian. Confess with your actions, NOT just your words. If I said I was an athiest and then went out and killed 1.3 billion people, does that mean that athiests kill?

I sort of agree with that, but possibly not in the way you think ...

But if you go around and say that there is no divine origin to morality, then what?

Hate = non Christian. I for one have many Islamic friends, and love an Islamic girl



But you dont say where they come from.

1- What? That made no sense with the thing I posted.

2- Thank you.

3- God did, eh? I need proof for him first, and why the hell did he let all his people rape and kill in the first place?

4- People who kill are 'forgived' by God in many cases. If one of them was atheist, they go to hell. The man who kills go to Heaven. Bullshit? Yeah. My point is, if an atheist went and killed a billion people, then yeah, they'd have the biggest- Oh, wait... No, the holy wars and such. But all it would be is a statistic.

5- Kay. Explain.

6- There is no divine origin to mortality. It is not the friggin force, not a power that holds the universe together. It is a concept, an idea. One can chose to use it or not.

7- Well, I'm afraid that so many of your member profess to being christian and at the same time hate homosexuals, muslims, jews, atheists, that it is a bit of a common thing.

8- Morals are a concept. Morals change through the ages. In the greek ages, a boy and his mentor were okay to touch each other. Not now. They are always changing according to HUMAN ideas.

3-

Originally Posted by Keeper

But if you go around and say that there is no divine origin to morality, then what?

But you dont say where they come from.

I just wanted to comment on these.


Morality (as in "Don't kill") comes from the fact, that we humans value our existence. We want to stay alive, because our existence is important to us, in order to reproduce. We also enjoy life.

Now, we don't kill people, because we know that other people also value their existence. Our existence is so precious to us, the most important thing of our life, and if we took the life of another human, we would feel bad, because we know how they would feel about it.

We don't do mean/bad things to others, that we don't want done to our selfs, because we know how they would feel about it.

edit: morals like "Teacher doesn't have sex with puepil", are made by our conscious human thinking. We don't do it, because it's taboo.

Thank you.

Even with that said, it isn't any type of power. It is a HUMAN feeling, a HUMAN concept. Ideas can't kill you, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by BeautifulDreamer

1- What? That made no sense with the thing I posted.

I meant that God is where morals come from

2- Thank you.

any time

3- God did, eh? I need proof for him first, and why the hell did he let all his people rape and kill in the first place?

Its a long story, but if you want to hear I'll tell you.

4- People who kill are 'forgived' by God in many cases. If one of them was atheist, they go to hell. The man who kills go to Heaven. Bullshit? Yeah. My point is, if an atheist went and killed a billion people, then yeah, they'd have the biggest- Oh, wait... No, the holy wars and such. But all it would be is a statistic.

I'm afriad that the people you heard this from didn't have a clue (and that includes most people who call themselves Christian. Once again, a long story, but better explained in this website I know (link at the end)

5- Kay. Explain.

Okay, in the short version: Mass mind = very, very bad. People who sway by words often are very bad. However, It is possable (isn't it) that God (Creator) put down his word in a book. That is the short of it.

6- There is no divine origin to mortality. It is not the friggin force, not a power that holds the universe together. It is a concept, an idea. One can chose to use it or not.

I disagree, but it will take more then a few words read of the 'page to convince you, so I wont even try right now.

7- Well, I'm afraid that so many of your member profess to being christian and at the same time hate homosexuals, muslims, jews, atheists, that it is a bit of a common thing.

Doesn't mean that is what is right, or what they are supposed to do. "Love your Neighbor." Good piece of advice if you dont take it out of context, eh?Anyhow, remember my earlier piece: Athiest (so called) goes out an kills people. Doesn't make all athiests bad, or what they stand for, nomatter how they justify it (i.e. "For the good of mankind, killing those idiot Creationists". With me?

8- Morals are a concept. Morals change through the ages. In the greek ages, a boy and his mentor were okay to touch each other. Not now. They are always changing according to HUMAN ideas.

3-

Read above.

link

Please read my post on morals, Keeper.

just read it. I see what you are saying, but consider ... where and when did the chance come in?

The chance? The chance of what? The chance of us wanting to live? That pretty much came from fact, that all living beings' point in live, is to survive and reproduce.

bugger, wrong word

change, not chance. sorry

Originally Posted by Keeper

bugger, wrong word

change, not chance. sorry

It's evolution Keeper, which you know nothing about. Animals that live in groups have rules of behavior. With the additional rational abilities of humans, these rules evolve into what we call morals. Since humans invented religion, they put the morals they already had into it. Poof, no need for a supernatural explanation, yet again.

Hi, Moon

I meant, when did it stop being okay for boys to get felt up by men

Originally Posted by Keeper

Hi, Moon

I meant, when did it stop being okay for boys to get felt up by men

As (thinking) people realized that sex should not be forced onto an unwilling individual, this was extended to include those who may not be able to express their unwillingness, such as children. This idea that sexual violence is not good has not completely penetrated (no pun intended) all societies, evidently.

But how did that become a morality-thing?

For example, how did the Older men realize that it is wrong?

Originally Posted by Keeper

But how did that become a morality-thing?

For example, how did the Older men realize that it is wrong?

There will always be people who do the wrong thing, if that's what you mean. Some people never realize what they are doing is wrong. That's why there is the group-force and ideas that are needed to keep people from hurting each, other as much as possible.

The "rules" that people evolved with are pretty basic, and designed to keep people in line within their tribal group, whom they need for themselves and their offspring to survive. Unfortunately this means that people can still be tribal and therefore sometimes think the rules don't apply to those outside of their group, whoever they may be. That's is why the rules of religion, say those found in the bible, say "Don't murder", but on the other hand say "Kill all the men and rape all the women" (You can look it up yourself, it's there quite a few times.) However, with rational thought and enlightment, people realize that these moral rules should apply even to people who are different from themselves. The process is still on-going, altho it is held up by primitive beliefs such as belief in the supernatural and that certain old books have some sort of moral authority, even when they call for killing all the people who don't believe the same thing as you (bible, koran, etc. in case you don't which books I am referring too.)

Originally Posted by Keeper

I meant that God is where morals come from

any time

Its a long story, but if you want to hear I'll tell you.


I'm afriad that the people you heard this from didn't have a clue (and that includes most people who call themselves Christian. Once again, a long story, but better explained in this website I know (link at the end)



Okay, in the short version: Mass mind = very, very bad. People who sway by words often are very bad. However, It is possable (isn't it) that God (Creator) put down his word in a book. That is the short of it.


I disagree, but it will take more then a few words read of the 'page to convince you, so I wont even try right now.



Doesn't mean that is what is right, or what they are supposed to do. "Love your Neighbor." Good piece of advice if you dont take it out of context, eh?Anyhow, remember my earlier piece: Athiest (so called) goes out an kills people. Doesn't make all athiests bad, or what they stand for, nomatter how they justify it (i.e. "For the good of mankind, killing those idiot Creationists". With me?



Read above.

link

1- Proof please? God must have changing ideas then, because morals haven't been the same through the ages and it used to include child molestation.

2- Kay kay.

3- Free will, yes, I've heard it before. I just find it difficult to believe God has changed his idea of morals throughout the years and has yet to punish anybody for not following morals.

4- Oh? Christianity has different denominations, but I remember that in nearly all of them praying for forgiveness gets you off scot-free. And I know I'm right about Xians having the highest kill list, by the way. So basically what you're saying is that the religion either has a huge flaw to it or all it's believers are wrong? Neither paints a pretty picture for me.

5- But why a book? Why doesn't he punish us for not following it? It's almost as if... He didn't want us to think he was real!

6- You may disagree but you have no proof of God. I can't disprove him, but there are many books written on mortality, and once again, it'll keep changing according to human opinion as it has.

7- Yes, I'm not saying you all live in the Bible Belt or kill people, but so many do it, without them in your leagues you'd have about 300 million less Xians. You should tell them to stop instead of sitting around.

8- Read what I have told you above.

The link means nothing to me.

I agree with moonbeam, there is no need for a supernatural being to explain human existence or morals. Those are all human ideas, why? Because we evolved to a sentient state... Nothing more. And probably after squabbling over how we came about, we diverged and invented gods to fill scientific gaps, as i have already explained in another thread.

How many threads are you going to make that say the same fucking thing? Get a new idea. Steal one from someone else if you have to, but for the love of all that is good in the world please just say something new for once. You've copied your own words back and forth between here and myspace and your dumbass blog so many times, you can't seem to remember where they've all been before. Are you even capable of thinking for yourself, or is it just regurgitation that you are so proud of knowing how to do? From now on, your name is Mother Sparrow, chewing up your half information and old arguments and regurgitating them ad infinitum.

Sorry. For different subjects, you normally need different THREADS! All you did for me is insult- Now go, please.

Oh Mother Sparrow, can you not see that all of your subjects are not only the same, but literally copied from one to the next?

And...? When there is a same argument in another thread I use it. And did you notice that this, about morals, is the ONLY thing I used elsewhere in the forum? So please, get your facts straight. I may be Mother Sparrow, but you're Whiny Ass.

BD has took his ramblings and made a blog.
Atheist material.

Argue...


NAOOO!

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ID=210993172

And on the day you posted that, what did your little myspace blog say?

Morals

The big thing religious people point out when speaking about religion and benefits, is morals. That is one of the only things they can credibly point out, actually. But it pisses me off to no end. As if religion is the only thing you can get moral sense from?


Really, does it take anybody a book to tell people not to murder? Not to molest children? Of course it doesn't! It's only natural! Of course, most of the said murders and child molesters are Christian, but that's another story... With the 'good' stuff, turn the other cheek, etc... It takes an individual to decide for themselves. Mass mind and doing things you wouldn't naturally do are bad for you. Why turn the other cheek when you can punch them in theirs? Or maybe you like peace, and do as it says. It depends on YOU, not what the preacher thinks or a book.

My point is- If you need a book, or somebody to TELL you not to kill or rape, then something is wrong with you.

Another- I've found that the bad standards and morals you also get from various religions outweighs the benefits. With Christianity you tend to tromp around, hate Muslims, etc. Muslims hate Jews, etc. I could go on and on. When scripture tells you good and bad things together, it's pretty sad.

There's also this awarness that morals are a power of God. What? Morals are a human concept. People have written books on them. The most overwhelming proof of morals not being a universal force? Change. In ancient Greece, it was OKAY to touch a young boy. Now, no, the morals have changed. However, if there were no laws against it, and I touched a boy, nothing would happen. Morals are ideas, and ideas can't hurt you.

God is an idea.

God can't hurt you.

~ Ever Lasting God Stopper


And then on that same day,

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ID=210993172

Hell and Damnnation. If you have a myspace and want to argue or agree, post a comment!

A link to the exact same thing.

So, thats three threads in which you didn't just use the same argument, but started the thread with the exact same premise. Get some new ideas miss Mother Sparrow. Your old ones are tired and outdated.

Erhm, yeah, if you would take the time to get your head out of your ass you may notice the last two posts in the blog.

And the thread in the lounge was meant for the link, the one in R/S was meant for arguing.

I really see no point argueing over who is right with religious people, no matter how hard you push across the truth they will always deny it, its a never winning battle for some, i sometimes wonder why religious people get themselves into these situations if they are not willing to take in the views of us athiests. And morals do not come from God, morals come from the laws and boundaries that have been set by society, we have expectations and we learn our morals through childhood off our parents regardless to whether you believe in God or not.

Originally Posted by BeautifulDreamer

Erhm, yeah, if you would take the time to get your head out of your ass you may notice the last two posts in the blog.

And the thread in the lounge was meant for the link, the one in R/S was meant for arguing.

Unfortunately the last two posts in the blog didn't exist when you posted the threads. I think all that shit caught in your throat is depriving your brain of oxygen, Mother Sparrow.

So what should I do here, should I just copy everything I've said in all the other threads? It seems when your run out of responses you just start a new thread with the same premise, possibly in hopes that those of us that know what we are talking about won't find them.