Thread: Chistian concept not understood?

I dont think its safe to claim a monopoly on the truth behind Christianity, as you pointed out be encouraging criticism. From my extensive Bible reading, i have my 2 cents (i hope i am not breaking the rules of your thread)

Christianity (setting aside Jesus for a moment) seems to be about overcoming the deamons of humanity. In other words, overcoming instinctive impulses that cause harm. For example, turning the other cheek and not hitting back. Treating others as you want to be treated, instead of using others for your own good. These are all inherant, instinctive human qualities that are potentially detrimental to society, and the list goes on and on. If you read the Bible, it is ALL about getting away from human nature. Ex., sexual impulses and impure thoughts are BAD.

This is where my attitude toward Christianity scares me. Overcoming impulses to do what is right may be the secret of life. An life-long journey of using our human conscience to overcome instinct and create a greater good. You know, like, maybe that is why God gave us a conscience? So, we can like, use it?

But, everything that makes sense to me tells me this is false. Human instincts can work for the greater good. I still feel that denying human nature is dangerous.

No you aren't breaking the rules, I'm happy if any actually at least read the Bible before posting, even happier if you have studied the Bible. I don't know if all those are natural human qualities for everyone. When I was a kid I always had a turn the other cheek philosophy, before I was a Christian. I knew at a young age that fighting would only lead to more fighting, and knew that I had to end it when it came to me. So I don't really agree that the things you listed are a part of human nature because the world is so full of sin our values have changed so much. I can't really tell but are you saying that

urning the other cheek and not hitting back. Treating others as you want to be treated, instead of using others for your own good. These are all inherant, instinctive human qualities that are potentially detrimental to society, and the list goes on and on. If you read the Bible, it is ALL about getting away from human nature. Ex., sexual impulses and impure thoughts are BAD.

are detrimental to society because that's what I think I see. because I can't see how turning the other cheek is a bad thing, it's worked out great for me.

I have a MAJOR problem with the "turning the other cheek" thing. Here's the scenario. I'll bet you know some assholes, right? Say you bump into him on accident, and he gets pissed and punches you. I say its perfectly acceptable to lay the guy out, because this will probably discourage him from punching people in the future. Therefore less net-violence. Letting him get away with it only reinforces his behavior.

I deal with idiots/jerks all the time at work, and if they get me mad I'm going to tell them. Now if at school or something someone ever punches me, I can honestly say I won't punch him back. I will say something to him but that's it. Because this is how it works every time if I were to punch him back.

Step 1: Guy punches other guy
Step 2: Other guy punches him
Step 3: brawl between the two
Step 4: Friends jump in, more people get hurt
Step 5 (in some cases): Guy pulls knife and someone dies

Now if people weren't so dumb people wouldn't punch people for really stupid reasons. Now I know I could probably easily lay some guy out, I'm strong and a pretty big guy, so there are people who are just intimidated by me, but now matter how hard someone wants to test that I don't let them. I don't know why so many people think violence is such a good thing for stopping violence. And rarely (by rarely i mean never) seen any stop being violent after someone stands up to them, the "tough guy" at my school always gets in fights and every time someone wants to fight him, it happens.

I do have a question. It seems that there are two sorts of christians I have run into. There is the liberal christian, and the conservative christian. Both of these groups are highly religious, but their views and personalities are HIGHLY different. Most of the big disagreements I have are with the conservative christians, because for the most part, I disagree with some of their moral principles, which they often try to put into the law books (e.g. gay civil unions). In fact, one key difference is that the conservative christians don't believe in separation of church and state.

Now, those two groups of christians BOTH claim to be highly religious, and really, they ARE highly religious. My question, in this context, is "What is christianity, really?" Cause we need to find a way to consolidate those two massively different groups. Here are possible solutions:

1) All of them are valid christians, because christianity is really the "core" that all of these people share. The way they apply the teachings to their everyday lives and moral structures are part of what makes us all different.

2) The two are technically two different religions that use the same textbook.

3) Only ONE of these groups is truly christian. The others are wrong.

As an optimist, I really do hope that if you ignore the total fundamentalist wackos, (1) is the answer most agreed upon. Then, we can all live happily ever after, sorta.

The second option might make sense, until you realize that all people are different, and therefore it's not just "2 religions", but rather "a spectrum, with two extremes", so I'm not sure that would work out.

The third and final option is kind of scary, because it encourages like-mindedness of windup-toy-esque proportions.

I guess that was a long-winded question, but it goes pretty deep.

Well The way I would define a Christian is: Accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour. That is all is needed to be a Christian, but you have to be darn sure you do believe this. I can't say who is or isn't a Christian, because if someone says they are, then I have to believe that, I can have my doubts however. But if someone just says they are a Christian and they can't give you a proper description of a Christian then chances are.... Now I also can't say who's right and wrong, I can only say that it's my conviction that my beliefs are right, and I happen to believe that other people's beliefs are wrong (I'm not saying they're wrong per say, just to my perception they are ). This all depends on how much faith they have in the Bible that determines the conservative/fundamentalist/liberal, but that's not up to me to say who's wrong, I can only think and pray about my beliefs, it's up to God to judge people.

Edit: Just so everyone knows I'm going to bed and I won't be back until 3pm EST tomorrow, so sorry if I don't answer your question, or reply to your comment.

Originally Posted by homer2020

Well The way I would define a Christian is: Accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour. That is all is needed to be a Christian, but you have to be darn sure you do believe this.

Beautiful. I agree with you totally on that, and I really hope most other christians do as well.

Edit: Just so everyone knows I'm going to bed and I won't be back until 3pm EST tomorrow, so sorry if I don't answer your question, or reply to your comment.

Heh that made me chuckle. I can picture all the folks who just sit there and hit refresh all summer going "aaawwwwwwwww"

I would also add in that they must act like Christians as well

Isn't if funny how early authors of the bible mistook the Hebrew word meaning "young woman" for the word "virgin"? And now for thousands of years all of you cristians think that a virgin had a baby? Hilarious.

So what the hell were you guys thinking when you invaded Al-Quds and raped all the women, killed the men, and slaved the children because they were Muslim?

And what's the dealio with this whole 'Inquisistion' thing that nobody expected? You know, where you tortured millions of Jews? Or the 'witch' killings in Salem?

I don't get the Christian concepts behind those.

En-fucking-lighten me, oh master of the Murder- erhm, Christians.

Originally Posted by BeautifulDreamer

So what the hell were you guys thinking when you invaded Al-Quds and raped all the women, killed the men, and slaved the children because they were Muslim?

And what's the dealio with this whole 'Inquisistion' thing that nobody expected? You know, where you tortured millions of Jews? Or the 'witch' killings in Salem?

I don't get the Christian concepts behind those.

En-fucking-lighten me, oh master of the Murder- erhm, Christians.

That is why being a Christian, is more than "accepting" Jesus and "acting" like a Christian. If we "acted" like Christians, Christians would be the only people on the planet.

I still say the journey is to use your conscience for a greater good, while using Jesus as your role model

If that's the case, to hell with it and let's all be atheists. Why take the risk? Religion os a cause for murder, along with all your conventinal stuff. I don't like having potential murderers congregate every Sunday.

by your argument, then why not all be Christians, as then there would be no fighting.

not a good argument

By your argument, you'd kill all who had an inkling of doubt about it, make all follow the same thing as you, make them pray, make them donate money...

Originally Posted by Keeper

I would also add in that they must act like Christians as well

Define. (you'll have to define it, in light of the "acting like a christian --> only christians left on the planet" comment anyway hehe)

Originally Posted by BeautifulDreamer

By your argument, you'd kill all who had an inkling of doubt about it, make all follow the same thing as you, make them pray, make them donate money...

No, my argument is completely unrelated. There is always so much more to learn, and people will always disagree.

Rep: I define a Christian as someone who models their life on Jesus and what he taught. I don't mean going out to a desert for 40 days, but you know what I mean.

Hmmm. Well, there'd be no fighting if everyone was atheist. And plus we strive to keep our morals free of prejudice and other things... Plus, we're not told everything by a peice of paper.

Hmm.

I like atheism better.

But wouldn't some be mentily ill? Wouldn't some think that they could outwit the system?

Religion doesn't equil the root of all evil. It was there before religion came in.

Oh, thanks for disproving yourself there. You said no fighting as Xian.

Religion might not equal all of it, but it equals a whole hell of a lot of it. I think the world, truly and speaking from ANY point of view, be better of before it. Sure we have other evils, but if just one is out of the picture, that's a start.

You're being evil if you think religion is 'good' and especially if you think it needs to be worldwide.

Originally Posted by Keeper

No, my argument is completely unrelated. There is always so much more to learn, and people will always disagree.

Rep: I define a Christian as someone who models their life on Jesus and what he taught. I don't mean going out to a desert for 40 days, but you know what I mean.

I believe understanding what Jesus did is far more important than just mimicking him. The situations we face today are not those Jesus faced, so mimicking is impossible. I think my earlier posts illustrate my understanding of what Jesus (as a book character) did.

Yeah, just think about it, religion is a big part of alot of bad things around the world. Muslims believe that anyone who does not believe in their God should be killed. Thats only one of many examples showing the evil that religion can cause. Christianity however has a problem with gay marriage or being gay all together, and if you are a christian you have to live by that and disagree with gays. I personally like anyone regardless of their sexuality or gender. I respect everyone but i find that also christianity is quite a sexist religion. Very male dominant.

So you think the Bible condonse acting against your fellows?

Religion can be used as an excuse for crimes, but it is never (exept in some cases (i.e. war-cults)) the source. People will just make a new excuse. Have you read God Emperor of Dune? Frank Herbet had very perceptive views on humanity. Leto forced peace on the people, and in the end they all wanted violence. People will always find an excuse to fight

and please, come again? How did I disprove myself?

[edit] Directed at BD

Originally Posted by Keeper

by your argument, then why not all be Christians, as then there would be no fighting.

not a good argument

Right there, that's how you disproved yourself. Saying that there wil always be fighting.

And oh no little Keeper- THAT is where you are wrong. There are many religious battles, religions attacking people because they don't beleive their religion... Admit it.

If you read closly, what I said was by your argument.

as I said, mine is another story

[edit] Tell me where this is condoned in the teachings of Jesus.