Thread: Build your own Religion

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I could never understand atheism. I was raised Christian and had my own falling out with that teaching, but I could never fall so far as to think that there was honestly nothing greater than me.

Being an atheist does not necessarily mean you don't think there is anything greater than yourself. I don't believe in God, but I do believe there are many things compared to which I am insignificant.

Hehe Jonathan Livingston was an interesting read, and I definitely see the "not one step, but a bunch of progress" angle you're coming from. And I agree with you, that no matter what your beliefs are, if you're not open-minded enough about it to change it (in response to some form of introspection), then your faith/spiritual side/why-are-we-here-questioner is as good as dead .

Good on you for deciding to find your own way!

what is it?

Well the biggest problem I have so far is explaining it in such a way that people will understand. So far the best I can do is explain it in terms of pieces of other belief systems.

The basic principle is that the only constant in the universe that we know is the tendency of the formation of patterns despite the second law of thermodynamics. Everything seems to "want" to congeal in to a more formal structure. In this sense, atoms and even smaller things have a sort of consciousness that attempts to become something greater. Each level of this pattern has its own sense of self. The sense of self is the god.

According to the theory of super-strings, all of existence breaks down to minute wormholes that fold back on themselves to make loops in the fabric of space time. Essentially, everything is nothing but a piece of information; a place marker. These bits of information, or ideas are drawn to one another and have some 'wish' to be part of a bigger idea. When they do connect, the larger idea forms an amalgam of every one of its parts and becomes a larger sense of self. If you follow this chain far enough you reach the level of human beings. You are the god of your body and your mind. A cell knows nothing beyond your existence and the cell's existence hinges directly on your will.

In the same sense, we as humans are part of bigger patterns. The Christian Religion is an idea that encompasses millions of lives and so becomes a very tangible and real idea (ideas being the only things that exist). There is a Christian god, that is made up of all Christians and their ideas.

Humanity is a bigger idea that we are all a part of. The goal of every religion is to become the biggest and most influential part of the human mind, thus shifting the human sense of self in its own direction. This is in fact the goal of every pattern; to spread itself enough in order to become the controlling force. Every pattern has a center and it is the goal of every piece of that pattern to occupy the center.

There is an earthly god too, one that is the amalgam of everything on this planet. That god is mostly controlled by the human god, but not entirely.

Unfortunately, the human god is like a person with split personalities. It is a divided god that is often times in opposition with itself. Instead of incorporating all ideas into one over-arching pattern, each piece wars to become the center. In this way, the human god is weakened in its fragmentation and will eventually tear itself apart; creating separate patterns that can no longer identify with each other. it is the goal of my religion to unify all human and earthly patterns into one harmonious collection; not by forcing my way in to the center, but by realigning the center so that we are all equidistant around it.

This is all very fragmented. I left a lot out and what I did say is not ordered very well but you might be able to understand what I'm trying to say. Perhaps it would be better if you were to ask me specific questions that I could answer.

Also, I know this all sounds egotistical but in reality I post this not to bestow my ideas upon all of you, but so that I can get your ideas and refine my own with them.

Originally Posted by skysaw

Being an atheist does not necessarily mean you don't think there is anything greater than yourself. I don't believe in God, but I do believe there are many things compared to which I am insignificant.

To me, the belief in god is the belief that I am a part of the things that make me seem insignificant. It is the feeling of separation in the atheist belief that I can't understand.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

To me, the belief in god is the belief that I am a part of the things that make me seem insignificant. It is the feeling of separation in the atheist belief that I can't understand.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by the "feeling of separation." I don't feel separate from the world at all. On the contrary, I feel very much a part of it.

But putting aside God for a moment, wouldn't believing there is nothing greater than myself be just a tad egoistic? There are people who I think are greater than I am... hard to ignore examples such as Ghandi or Martin Luther King. I also think the forces of nature, the stars and galaxies, and probably much of the unknown are greater than I am.

So, in essence, your religion is about how all of reality (from below the subatomic to above the universal) is all conected? I have a vaguly similer idea, but it deviates dramaticly from yours in certain parts ... Just a few questions, though:

1) Is your god aware?
2) What is your belief in the afterlife?
3) Is there a code to live by?
4) Does your god have a name?
5) Did your god create the universe it is, or did it form from it?

[edit] Oh, and 6) arn't you dividing this god further by making a new religion?

Originally Posted by Keeper

So, in essence, your religion is about how all of reality (from below the subatomic to above the universal) is all conected? I have a vaguly similer idea, but it deviates dramaticly from yours in certain parts ... Just a few questions, though:

1) Is your god aware?
2) What is your belief in the afterlife?
3) Is there a code to live by?
4) Does your god have a name?
5) Did your god create the universe it is, or did it form from it?

[edit] Oh, and 6) arn't you dividing this god further by making a new religion?

There is no god in the sense you are speaking. There is not one omnipotent being that controls the universe and created life. Every religion that has a god has mistaken one of the systems that we are a part of for the ultimate. The Christian God is a human god, and also contains some aspects of the planet Earth. Everything is aware and is the god of all of its parts.

The afterlife; On a subatomic level we are all just ideas. Your body is composed of ideas and your self is composed both of your body and your mind. The ideas of your body are the spring board for the ideas of your mind. The ideas of your body are contained, and only spread through sexual reproduction. The ideas of your mind are much more fluid and can spread easily. Once the ideas of you physical body die, you are made up of the ideas of your physical offspring and the ideas of your mind that have spread across the world. The more you spread, the more aware you will be. There is no real afterlife because all of those things exist before your physical body is worn out, but all of them are centered on your physical body (the center being the sense of self) and so you feel localized until you are rid of it. What is thought to be an enlightenment in afterlife is really the release of the centralized physical body allowing you to exist anywhere and everywhere your ideas have spread to.

The universe as we know it is nothing. It is an empty bubble that folds back on itself infinitely. The folds form patterns which are all matter and energy. There is no creator or created since ultimately there is always nothing.

I have no god, but only patterns that I am a small part of. One of those patterns is called the human race, and it is aware. One of those patterns is called Earth and it is aware. One of them is called the solar system and it is aware. They may have other names for themselves but I do not know them.

(edit) I don't feel like I am dividing it further because instead of creating an entirely separate new belief, I am simply acknowledging that all beliefs are in some ways correct and don't have to oppose one another. In fact, all that makes them incorrect is the points of opposition in which by their nature they are not allowed to co-exist and so a stronger one cancels out a weaker one.

Originally Posted by skysaw

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by the "feeling of separation." I don't feel separate from the world at all. On the contrary, I feel very much a part of it.

But putting aside God for a moment, wouldn't believing there is nothing greater than myself be just a tad egoistic? There are people who I think are greater than I am... hard to ignore examples such as Ghandi or Martin Luther King. I also think the forces of nature, the stars and galaxies, and probably much of the unknown are greater than I am.

We aren't talking about the same things. Martin Luther King wasn't greater than you. He was a human being and nothing more. The feeling of separation I talk about is the feeling that you are an aware creator that is part of an extremely complex planet but for some reason you don't allow for the possibility that the planet is more aware than you. It is more complex than you so why shouldn't it be more aware? If this isn't an accurate description of your belief then you are not atheist, and we are both confused.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

We aren't talking about the same things. Martin Luther King wasn't greater than you. He was a human being and nothing more. The feeling of separation I talk about is the feeling that you are an aware creator that is part of an extremely complex planet but for some reason you don't allow for the possibility that the planet is more aware than you. It is more complex than you so why shouldn't it be more aware? If this isn't an accurate description of your belief then you are not atheist, and we are both confused.

I'm not familiar with the concepts you're describing as being attributed to atheism, though I suppose there could be atheists who happen to believe along those lines.

Atheists come in many, many flavors, and also fall along a continuum that runs from absolutely convinced that God does not exist (extreme Atheism) to just plain unsure (Agnostic-Atheism). I've never heard awareness of the planet as part of a definition of Atheism.

Among Agnostics there are also many flavors. Some believe that nobody can ever know if there is a God (I am among this group). Some simply believe that they cannot know, and don't address others. Some believe that we don't currently know, but that it could some day be proven one way or the other. I believe there is no God, but I recognize the possibility that my belief is incorrect.

If one doesn't believe in God, why does that pre-suppose any other belief? Why must we assume that there is no intermediate step between humanity and a supreme being? If there is a God, I imagine there would be an infinite number of such steps between man who is finite, and God who is infinite. Wouldn't you agree? And if God does not exist, there are still an infinite number of steps between humanity and any point less than Godliness. For this reason, I can imagine an infinite number of levels of being greater than myself, even in a universe without God.

agnostic and atheism are very different, and I don't really see why there are people who are agnostic but call themselves atheists.

As far as the awareness of the planet; what I was getting at is the fact that to be atheist, you must believe that nothing transcends human awareness. You can say that there are different levels of atheism but to fall under that category there are certain beliefs you must hold. The simple lack of beliefs is agnostic, which to me is a fine way to be and is how I was for a very long time.

what do you mean by an idea?

A thought, a piece of information; a pattern.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

agnostic and atheism are very different, and I don't really see why there are people who are agnostic but call themselves atheists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

As far as the awareness of the planet; what I was getting at is the fact that to be atheist, you must believe that nothing transcends human awareness. You can say that there are different levels of atheism but to fall under that category there are certain beliefs you must hold.

Only one belief: there is no God. Once you've got that one, you're in the club.

American Heritage Dictionary:
a·the·ist
n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

There's the definition. Don't really need anything beyond that. I know a number of atheists, including my wife. This one belief is the only one we all tend to have in common.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

There is no god in the sense you are speaking. There is not one omnipotent being that controls the universe and created life. Every religion that has a god has mistaken one of the systems that we are a part of for the ultimate. The Christian God is a human god, and also contains some aspects of the planet Earth. Everything is aware and is the god of all of its parts.

The afterlife; On a subatomic level we are all just ideas. Your body is composed of ideas and your self is composed both of your body and your mind. The ideas of your body are the spring board for the ideas of your mind. The ideas of your body are contained, and only spread through sexual reproduction. The ideas of your mind are much more fluid and can spread easily. Once the ideas of you physical body die, you are made up of the ideas of your physical offspring and the ideas of your mind that have spread across the world. The more you spread, the more aware you will be. There is no real afterlife because all of those things exist before your physical body is worn out, but all of them are centered on your physical body (the center being the sense of self) and so you feel localized until you are rid of it. What is thought to be an enlightenment in afterlife is really the release of the centralized physical body allowing you to exist anywhere and everywhere your ideas have spread to.

The universe as we know it is nothing. It is an empty bubble that folds back on itself infinitely. The folds form patterns which are all matter and energy. There is no creator or created since ultimately there is always nothing.

I have no god, but only patterns that I am a small part of. One of those patterns is called the human race, and it is aware. One of those patterns is called Earth and it is aware. One of them is called the solar system and it is aware. They may have other names for themselves but I do not know them.

(edit) I don't feel like I am dividing it further because instead of creating an entirely separate new belief, I am simply acknowledging that all beliefs are in some ways correct and don't have to oppose one another. In fact, all that makes them incorrect is the points of opposition in which by their nature they are not allowed to co-exist and so a stronger one cancels out a weaker one.

In essence, you admit God is a human creation, and that humans arew an insignificant part of the Universe. Well... GOOD JOB. You've taken your first steps into reality

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

In essence, you admit God is a human creation, and that humans arew an insignificant part of the Universe. Well... GOOD JOB. You've taken your first steps into reality

not an accurate description of the essence, but oh well. I said I wasn't very good at describing it to others and so it is no ones fault but my own if someone doesn't understand it. I don't think god is a human creation. It is only natural for everything to look at whats "above" them and think they are looking at an all powerful creator because they are incapable of seeing anything higher. The "god" that is above humans probably bows to something far greater. Everything has a god; even you. Science is a god, and so is your concept of reality. As a matter of fact, your concept of reality is much closer to the common definition of god than anything that exists in my religion.

Originally Posted by skysaw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

hmm. Well its always been my opinion that if you label yourself agnostic, then you admit you don't know what the hell you're talking about; and so you can not truthfully know whether something exists or it doesn't. I really don't feel like bickering over semantics though so I'll stop saying atheist or agnostic all together. To reword, thus avoiding these terms; I never understood the belief that there is no greater system than a human being that has the capacity for awareness and which human beings are a part of and depend upon.

Originally Posted by skysaw

Only one belief: there is no God. Once you've got that one, you're in the club.

American Heritage Dictionary:
a·the·ist
n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

There's the definition. Don't really need anything beyond that. I know a number of atheists, including my wife. This one belief is the only one we all tend to have in common.

See above.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

hmm. Well its always been my opinion that if you label yourself agnostic, then you admit you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Hehe... well that's a bit oversimplified. Another way of looking at it is that agnostics believe that nobody knows what they're talking about (especially non-agnostics :p).

But you can admit to not knowing something and still have a belief about it. It's sort of like being a meteorologist: They may strongly believe it will rain today, but they know there's never a 100% certainty. Strong theists and strong atheists believe there is a 100% certainty one way or the other.

But as you say, maybe terminology isn't the important thing. It's just a short-hand to let people get an idea of what you believe, but if we don't all have the same definitions it can be confusing. I also lable myself as a Humanist sometimes, but most people have no concept of what that actually means.

what are you going to call it?

Heh, the working title right now is "Zachreligious," but its a joke that my friend came up with that stuck. I'm not sure really. If there is anything that I really would say this religion worships it would be the act of creation, but creationism is already taken and means something other than what I do.

Really there is no object of worship to name my religion after. Perhaps I should name it after its goal. Singularism? Unificationism? I never really liked the ism or istic suffixes. Perhaps I'll have to find a new way to denote 'religion.'

edit: just thought of something; I like it because of its meaning and because of its mathematical connotations, although I still probably won't come up with a real name until after my 'vision quest.' Concentrism. Until I find something better, I am a Concentrist.

Why not call it "Steve?" I don't think anyone's used that one yet for a religion... ripe for the taking!

I believe in the world there are three religions, the religion of people that believe in meaningless symbols, the religion of people that believe in meaningful symbols, and the religion of people seeking reality.

I believe everything beyond the universe exists beyond the conceptual mind, and beyond ways there are words to describe. Logic is an entrapment upon true understanding. However, through careful practice of meditation and mindfulness one may begin to know the mechanics of what exists beyond the universe, even though they will know it in a way someone knows the internet, they still will not understand it.

From the Nag Hammadi
But they did not realize that she knows another way, which is hidden from them. This her true shepherd taught her in knowledge.

kinda fit the subject matter I thought
Vee

Actually here's the best way to categorize my religion.

I am a Bohemian. I believe spirituality is infinitely more important than materialism. Materialism is an entrapment in this society that stumps the spiritual growth of individuals. They care only about the short gain, falsly justifying their own immortality through the worship of meaningless symbols. I practice mindful snowboarding, surfing, skateboarding and biking to help me become more aware of the true nature of things in the real world. I believe people have covered themselves up in delusions the moment they become incorporated into society, and that they stop observing the world around them once they are able to label or reason what they see.