Big Bible Lesson Thread

[A dreamer168]

"[edit] And the devil, why doesn't he just repent?" That is a good question, but the devil can't repent now, he is too blinded by his own ambition, and retains his pridefulness which got him kicked out in the first place!

[Sandform]

The devil is as old as God right? If you being as young as you are, in reguards to God and Satan, are able to realize that the devil could not defeat God, don't you think Satan is that smart too? Or do you think the devil is just stupid? hehe.

[A dreamer168]

I do not get what ur saying

[A dreamer168]

"Reason: I love debating fairytales" Yeah, wannywan, if u do'nt want to learn anything by coming on this thread I suggest u shouldn't come on here at all. This kinda hurt my feelings, because I thought u were going to RESPECT our religion!!!!!!!! P.s: Boy, was I wrong!

[Sandform]

The devils whole goal is to appose God. If your smart enough to realize that is stupid and impossible, then you should assume a being awestrikingly more advanced than you are would also be able to realize the same thing.

[A dreamer168]

Good point Sandform, but the devil is too blinded by pride to care. Also, the devil still has power over man to do his bidding1

[SilverZero]

The devils whole goal is to appose God. If your smart enough to realize that is stupid and impossible, then you should assume a being awestrikingly more advanced than you are would also be able to realize the same thing. The devil's whole goal is to lead humans astray, and he can do that quite well. And, in so doing, he opposes God, who wants to lead us along a different path. Unfortunately, the devil is good at what he does.

[wannywan]

"Reason: I love debating fairytales" Yeah, wannywan, if u do'nt want to learn anything by coming on this thread I suggest u shouldn't come on here at all. This kinda hurt my feelings, because I thought u were going to RESPECT our religion!!!!!!!! P.s: Boy, was I wrong! Oh trust me, I'm learning loads.

[Rayei]

And now for something off topic. Sorry for interrupting whatever I may be interrupting but I have a few faith-related questions. First, I loosely believe in god. I don't go to church everyday, pray frequently, and some other extreme. I go to church, but not a whole lot. I pray, but again, not as much as I should be doing I guess. Heres the question- is the perfect believer the only one who gets to heaven? I think some time ago, the church said that it no longer mattered that you're baptised or not. Being a kind person is well enough to grant you acess to heaven. But, say, you go to church everyday, you pray, you are a kind, overall fine example of a god-fearing person. But what if you were you gay? Does that mean god banishes homosexuals to hell because they love people of the same gender- something scientifically proven to be uncontrollable through will? Does this mean it doesn't matter that you're a loving, kind hearted person, as long as you broke a rule that god set? I assume that god set this rule so as to keep the world alive by creation though sex as homosexual activity proved unsucessful at spawning children, but isn't a little weird that the all loving creator would do such a thing? Sorry for any ill intention this post may appear to any, and probably any grammatical (did I even spell that right?) mistakes. Thanks. P.S.- SilverZero, in a previous post you said "Love God, love people". I hope you don't mind me using that as some kind of mental reminder to be a good person.

[wannywan]

Yes, these seeming inconsistencies would be quite worrying if you are a Christian.

[SilverZero]

Heres the question- is the perfect believer the only one who gets to heaven? [...] P.S.- SilverZero, in a previous post you said "Love God, love people". I hope you don't mind me using that as some kind of mental reminder to be a good person. Jesus said it, not me. Use it all you want. The one who gets into heaven is the one who believes and confesses that Jesus was who he said he was: the Son of God who died for that person's sins (past, present, and future). We'll all keep breaking the rules sometimes, but we can ask for forgiveness every time. It's the ones who never go in for that offer in the first place who miss out (eternally).

[Indecent Exposure]

Jesus said it, not me. Use it all you want. The one who gets into heaven is the one who believes and confesses that Jesus was who he said he was: the Son of God who died for that person's sins (past, present, and future). Sounds like Jesus is jsut gagging for acceptance. Surely leading a good moral life should be more imprtant than accpeting jesus. So person A) Is a Hindu, he is alos a philantrhopist, he also works as a doctor saving peoples lives. He gives all he has to the poor at the age of 55, and lives a very simple life. But he was a polytheist, he has never accepted Jesus. He dies Person B) Spends his life comminting sins, not the the terrible sin of insulting the holy spirit or whatever, jus normal sins. Hes a theif, a rapist, he sleeps around. But on his death bed he repents, he calls jesus his saviour and accepts him as the Son of God. which one of these guys goes to Heaven? Both, niether, A, B?

[SilverZero]

Sounds like Jesus is jsut gagging for acceptance. Surely leading a good moral life should be more imprtant than accpeting jesus. So person A) Is a Hindu, he is alos a philantrhopist, he also works as a doctor saving peoples lives. He gives all he has to the poor at the age of 55, and lives a very simple life. But he was a polytheist, he has never accepted Jesus. He dies Person B) Spends his life comminting sins, not the the terrible sin of insulting the holy spirit or whatever, jus normal sins. Hes a theif, a rapist, he sleeps around. But on his death bed he repents, he calls jesus his saviour and accepts him as the Son of God. which one of these guys goes to Heaven? Both, niether, A, B? Person B goes to heaven. Your misunderstanding is that some sins are worse than others, or that you can offset sins by doing good deeds. That's not how it works. All have sinned, the penalty for any sin is death (eternal separation from God), and the only way to escape that penalty is by believing that Jesus paid it for you (which he did). Person A was a good person by your human standards, but still has sinned. To God, he's just like Person B, but Person B asked for forgiveness.

[skysaw]

The one who gets into heaven is the one who believes and confesses that Jesus was who he said he was: the Son of God .. . It's the ones who never go in for that offer in the first place who miss out (eternally). Do you really think that belief can just be switched on like that? If you do not believe something, you can't just believe it by sheer willpower. If someone told you that in order to get into heaven, you had to believe that 2+2=5, do you think you could manage it? I know I couldn't.

[Indecent Exposure]

So basically, God doesnt see brutal rape and murder as any worse than petty theft. I'll bear that in mind then? Be serious, your telling me that Mahatma Ghandi did not go to Heaven? Your telling me however, that some crazy fucked up serial killing Christian did? Thats the only criteria, well if you ask me hes a shit God. Even if he were real and he were like you described him, well as far as Im concered hes an arrogant bastard, seeking praise and worship and he can fuck off as far as Im concered, beingf that as it is, I doubt his existance so I'm not that bthered. Thank you for confirming for me that God is an asrsehole. Btw I'll accept jesus before i die just incase. Pascals wager and all that.

[SilverZero]

Do you really think that belief can just be switched on like that? If you do not believe something, you can't just believe it by sheer willpower. If someone told you that in order to get into heaven, you had to believe that 2+2=5, do you think you could manage it? I know I couldn't. Well, God isn't asking us to believe something that's obviously untrue. (I'm sure that will garner some heated replies.) It's not like expecting you to believe that I'm Abraham Lincoln. Instead, it's like telling you all about myself, and then asking you to believe that.

[skysaw]

Well, God isn't asking us to believe something that's obviously untrue. To deny there is a parallel is simply avoiding the question. It's not the obviousness that makes it impossible... you simply can't change your belief by deciding to do so. I hold the belief that there is no Jesus. I can't just decide to change my mind about it. I can say I believe in Jesus, but that would just make me a liar. I can tell myself I do, but it would still be a lie. The only thing that could possibly make me believe, is to find some compelling evidence of some sort. That's not holding a challenge up to Christianity, it's a simple condition that would have to be met in order for me to believe. Failing that, there is no "choice" to be made.

[A dreamer168]

I don't belive Hindus will go to Hell, just for not beieving in our GOD i believe they search for GOD as we do, only in their religion the spirit that is GOD takes on many forms as different gods than ours does. P.S SilverZero this is just my opinion

[SilverZero]

To deny there is a parallel is simply avoiding the question. It's not the obviousness that makes it impossible... you simply can't change your belief by deciding to do so. I hold the belief that there is no Jesus. I can't just decide to change my mind about it. I can say I believe in Jesus, but that would just make me a liar. I can tell myself I do, but it would still be a lie. The only thing that could possibly make me believe, is to find some compelling evidence of some sort. That's not holding a challenge up to Christianity, it's a simple condition that would have to be met in order for me to believe. Failing that, there is no "choice" to be made. Are you looking for evidence? I could sit here in my office and say, "I don't believe it's sunny outside" all day, but if I don't go to the window and look, I'm just believing because it's what I want to believe. By your logic, I could not see a weather report telling me it's sunny, and decide to believe that, because I already believe it's not. But that's clearly not the case. In the same way, you saying you don't believe in Jesus doesn't mean you can't believe in him. You're just choosing not to. Jesus was a historical figure, his acts were historically documented (even outside the Bible), and millions of people since his time have believed in him based on an entire spectrum of evidence - from believing what their friend told them to spending decades researching the documentary, anthropological, and archaeological clues. There's no shortage of evidence, but if you don't want to see it, it won't help you make a decision.

[SilverZero]

I don't belive Hindus will go to Hell, just for not beieving in our GOD i believe they search for GOD as we do, only in their religion the spirit that is GOD takes on many forms as different gods than ours does. P.S SilverZero this is just my opinion That's fine, and I respect your opinion. My opinion is that God is revealed mainly through the Bible, and the Bible says unequivocally that Jesus is the only way to the Father. There is no other indication that God thinks differently apart from people who don't like the idea of "entering through the narrow gate," so to speak.

[skysaw]

Are you looking for evidence? The entire world is looking for evidence. I spent enough time investigating to know any further investigating would continue to be futile. If looking for evidence of "Jesus is the son of God" were as easy as looking out the window to see if it's sunny, the entire problem would have been long ago resolved. In the same way, you saying you don't believe in Jesus doesn't mean you can't believe in him. You're just choosing not to. You couldn't be more wrong about this. I don't make a "choice" to disbelieve. If it's a choice, how is it a belief? It's just reduced to a selection. My beliefs are based on my observations and assumptions. Beliefs form naturally in the mind as a result of circumstance. They are not mulled over and "chosen" like an ice-cream flavor. Jesus was a historical figure, his acts were historically documented (even outside the Bible), and millions of people since his time have believed in him based on an entire spectrum of evidence - from believing what their friend told them to spending decades researching the documentary, anthropological, and archaeological clues. There is not one single archaeological clue that points to Jesus being the son of God. Or if there is, someone is being mighty secretive about it. There's no shortage of evidence, but if you don't want to see it, it won't help you make a decision. I honestly believe that you and I have distinctly different understandings of the meaning of the word "evidence." I've been on this planet for 43 years, and have known stories from the bible since I was 5. I have encountered thousands and thousands of Christians, and listened to many of them with some interest. I have heard thousands of "reasons" why Christianity is based on truth, and not a single one of them nearly approached a well-founded argument.

[ninja pirate]

So what the hell was the apostle Paul thinking when he spent those long hours writing all the scriptures to be sent to various churches throughout the country? Have you read the New Testament? Paul put a lot of time into it! If it was a bunch of bullshit, why did he waste his time? Mind you that he personally knew Jesus. If not the son of God, who was Jesus? Why did he claim to be the son of God? Was he a liar? Well, the man went to his death defending his claims. Would he have done this had he been lying the whole time about being the Christ? Do you think he never made this claim? The words on his cross read "Jesus of Nazareth, the king of the Jews," so it's obvious someone thought he was making that claim.

[SilverZero]

So what the hell was the apostle Paul thinking when he spent those long hours writing all the scriptures to be sent to various churches throughout the country? Have you read the New Testament? Paul put a lot of time into it! If it was a bunch of bullshit, why did he waste his time? Mind you that he personally knew Jesus. If not the son of God, who was Jesus? Why did he claim to be the son of God? Was he a liar? Well, the man went to his death defending his claims. Would he have done this had he been lying the whole time about being the Christ? Do you think he never made this claim? The words on his cross read "Jesus of Nazareth, the king of the Jews," so it's obvious someone thought he was making that claim. Actually, Paul never met Jesus "in the flesh" - just on the road to Damascus. That's probably what you meant, and it doesn't change the fact that he did personally know Jesus. But that makes it even more impressive that he would give up everything, knowing he would be imprisoned and persecuted, for his ministry. In fact, none of the disciples had anything to gain, a lot to lose, and almost all of them were killed specifically for refusing to deny their beliefs. Pretty powerful testimony that what they saw, they recognized as the real deal.

[skysaw]

So what the hell was the apostle Paul thinking when he spent those long hours writing all the scriptures to be sent to various churches throughout the country? Have you read the New Testament? Paul put a lot of time into it! If it was a bunch of bullshit, why did he waste his time? Mind you that he personally knew Jesus. How should I know what he was thinking? It's likely he thought it was important, but that is neither here nor there. People waste their times on pursuits of questionable merit all the time, many of them much more time-consuming than writing the bible. If not the son of God, who was Jesus? Why did he claim to be the son of God? Was he a liar? I couldn't begin to guess his motives or his own beliefs. But I can certainly think of many reasons that are more compelling than his actually being the son of God. I'm sure you will agree that claiming something is true has little relation to something actually being true. Well, the man went to his death defending his claims. Would he have done this had he been lying the whole time about being the Christ? Do you think he never made this claim? The words on his cross read "Jesus of Nazareth, the king of the Jews," so it's obvious someone thought he was making that claim. I never disputed that he made the claim. To me it has nothing to do with whether or not it was true. Are we to believe anyone who claims to be the son of God? And if not, why should we believe him?