Printable View
Rooj posted a video in another thread, and there was a lot in it I didn't know about. It looks like the Bible not only condones vicious acts against good people, but also demands them. However, I would really like to know the Christian perspective on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y
I have often stated that Christianity can never be criticized, oddly enough, because of its extreme duality. The Christian excuse for this is "Jesus". They believe that all of a sudden God changed his mind about how to treat humans. Is that not the dumbest thing you have ever heard? God got morals, which means he was immoral before.
I firmly believe the New Testament was created to save Judiasm because of the harsh criticism it got for its unbelievably evil God. They completely recreated their religion, and passed it off by saying the savior frees us from original sin, something an evil God imposed on us in the Old Testament.
I believe this because religions have been made up for thousands of years. Why is it so unacceptable to you Christians that Christianity was just made up, just like every other religion on Earth?
I'm currently reading the New Testament and plan on reading the Old Testament once I am finished. I've always been a skeptic of supposed 'sacredness' of the Old Testament strictly because it is chocked full of twisted things, such as those mentioned in this video. But regardless of whether or not it is God's word, Christians maintain that the OT is to be disregarded. The new covenant between God and man is centralized in the person of Jesus Christ, who taught that above all, we should love our neighbors (meaning we should love everyone). So any Christian is going to tell you that the passages in the OT are irrelevant. What matters now is the teachings of Christ.
That being said, the narrator only mentions a few passages from the New Testament. In Matthew 18:8, Jesus talks about gouging out an eye or casting off a foot if it causes you to sin. All he is saying here is this: don't sin! The analogy of the eye or foot is symbolic of sacrifice. We all must make sacrifices if we are to shy away from sin. The pubescent male may not wish to give up pornography, but it is better for him to sacrifice this worldly pleasure now than to let it lead him away from God. So he doesn't need to cut off his hand to refrain from masturbation. Rather, he needs to make a personal sacrifice to shy away from sin.
The next verse the narrator mentions is in 1 Corinthians 14:34. I just read this passage a couple weeks ago and highlighted it because I found it shocking as well. The verse says that women are not permitted to speak in churches (it goes as far to say it's shameful if a woman does). There are also a few other passages in the NT that seem to come off as sexist. However, the NT also makes it clear that man and woman alike are equal in the body of Christ. Case in point:
"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:26-29
Strangely, Paul the apostle is the man who wrote both Galatians and Corinthians, so he seems to be contradicting himself. I won't pretend to understand why he makes such a contradiction, but there are plenty of verses in the NT that express equality among men and women.
Next we come to Titus 2:9. The verse basically says slaves should be obedient and loyal to their masters. It would be quite natural for a slave to resent or hate his master (obviously, a slave is unhappy with his/her status). But this is exactly what Jesus instructed us not to do. We are supposed to love our neighbors, even our enemies. So no matter how terribly a slave is treated, he should remain obedient and not resent his position. I know this sounds insane and impossible to do, but think of what Jesus went through. As he was being tortured and crucified, he said things like "forgive them, they know not what they do." Even though he was tortured and hated by these people, he was still full of love for them.
Hope this helps.
The idea was, before Jesus everyone went to Hell. Moses himself went to hell. Everyone was evil due to the original sin imposed on man because of Adam and Eve's transgressions. For whatever reason, God then allowed for a way out of this by sending his son to Earth to atone for those sins. The old testament is about survival. The new testament is about salvation.
Ninja pirate, you have explained the duality of Christianity I mentioned in my other post. I just don't understand why God can command terrible things and just be redeemed by commanding good things.
Christianity has been structured so the Christian can never be wrong. The people who made the religion up were geniuses. In fact, they may have been Jews who were just too lazy to follow the extreme rules of Judiasm, so they made a religion where all you have to do is believe in some guy and follow his ways. A shortcut to morality, in other words.
To be fair to sandform i origionally recieved the link from him so i cant take credit for finding it, not that i want to distance myself from it, i think its a really powerful and interesting video, and it should spark some deep thought in all christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
This reminds me of another video, now i appreciate its clips from comedy but it raises in my mind some interesting points towards the end.Quote:
The idea was, before Jesus everyone went to Hell. Moses himself went to hell. Everyone was evil due to the original sin imposed on man because of Adam and Eve's transgressions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_EXq...related&search=
Why the snake that could speak adam and eves language, why the tree and the fruit, god must have seen it coming, with the whole all seeing thing. Christians, you've got to admit, it makes no sense heh. I dont want to hijack the thread so feel free to ignore me and keep on point, i just find it ridiculous sometimes.
Everyone who has questions about the Bible, why this why that? Well I have some good news...
God himself, likes the fact that you question The Bible...even when you ask "Why God does this and then does that" He honestly likes the fact you are actually asking questions...When you are asking questions about the Bible, you are still dwelling in the Word of God...As strange as it may sound, God is please to a point that you are asking questions and searching for Answers about the Bible....To find the answers you are looking for, Read The Bible...
Before I accepted Jesus into my life (and in the past I even denied God exsisted) The Bible never made sense to me.. Sure I would go to church sing about God and say "Hey I believe" But truly deep down inside I was only half way through the door that Jesus had opened for me...
One day I just decided to pray to God...
to break down the prayer that I prayed to him.. I basically told him I was at a loss, I didnt know what to do, and I needed answers...because thats all really what we are looking for are answers...He answered me (as almost if the answer came to the back of my mind, but it wasnt me telling myself the answer)
He told me "Its about how much Faith you have in me"
I sat there on my bed and i literally said outloud "Wow..."
Through this life and all the events that have passed and that are to come, we all search for answers...I have a little saying that goes like this..
"Why is life deem'd so complicated? Because we are searching for answers that we may never find"
Instead of searching for Answers that you may never find...Look at all the answers that have been given to you through the Bible...
Now that I am saved and have Jesus as my savior.. The Bible makes so much sense..It is amazing how it all falls into place...I am also saddened to see how many people truly dont understand--im not saying that in a negative way--- I am just saying that there are people out there that will decide to choose a life of their own instead of a Life for Jesus...
This life isnt going to last, we all know we are going to die one day....The reason why to some Following Jesus seems so hard and complicated is because it is much easier to give into Sin then it is to stay away from it..
What life are you choosing to live for...The Here and Now...or the Everlasting?
spiritofthewolf
PS: What have you done today to please God?
spiritofthewolf,
I cant really respond well against what you say because you offer nothing new, nothing to the argument but your own feelings which sadly brings no extra evidence or depth to the christian side of the debate. I can see you went through hard times in your life, and you need something, you needed something to give your life meaning. This need led you to christianity, a big friendly group of people you can feel a part of, its typical group behaviour, to want to be a part of something. Its also great to feel everythings going to be fine when you die and the pain you suffer through life means nothing because you have a heaven to go to at the end of it all.
On top of this its also a great way to answer any hard questions you come across... well god was involved.
This is all good but remember its you who needed and found that. Others don't need the same comfort you found, theres many others that arn't looking for saviour, they're looking for truth, and you're stories cant help those people. To try and convert people just because you found comfort isnt an answer to someone elses life. For you to try and scare and manipulate people into joining your big friendly group is a failure on your part. Its fulfilling a selfish desire on your part to have more and more people involved in your group because it somehow brings meaning to your life.
I know this post isnt on topic but neither is yours.. Please spiritofthewolf, use the brain which "god" gave you and address Universal Mind's question. Dont be a politician, dont try and avoid the question, analyse the video and respond accordingly and lets see if you can justify your gods words. Stay on topic....
What has God done for me? Please don't say life, food, or joy.
Spiritofthewolf, your motives seem selfish underneath. Your comment about "living for here and now, or eternal" shows it. Being a good person should be for here and now, and for the good of other people, not to make youself look good in the eyes of God. I don't mean this as an insult. However, Christianity is a self-based religion. With Christianity the sin is about the sinner, and not the victim. With Christianity, the good deed is about the one who does it, and not the people it affects.
Living a life soley to please God makes you nothing more than a lap dog.
say what you must to make your points...but what good is your voice and all that you have on this earth when you are dead??
Jesus is my savior and no matter what I say or do to try to convice you all that Jesus and the Bible is 110% true, you are going to come back with your opinions (and its fine your welcome to state your opinion)
But I as a follower of the Lord I can only preach his Word...You yourself must TRULY open your hearts and souls to Him and Welcome Him with opens arms.....
Gods hands are behind His back.. He has given us all Free will to do and believe what we want...Your free to SPEAK your mind
Exodus 4:11
"Who makes mouths?" The Lord asked "Who makes people so they can speak or not speak, hear or not hear, see or not see? Is it not I, The Lord?"
Deuteronomy 11:26
"Today I am Giving you a choice between a blessing and a curse"
I have spoken for the Lord...Choose what you may...
We do not do good works to please God. This idea paints salvation up to be a payment, and it is through our good works that we can receive that payment. This is totally wrong. Rather, salvation is a gift, and we do good works in appreciation for that gift.
It is absolutely necessary that a Christian is humble. Not prideful, not selfish.
spiritofthewolf,
Stop avoiding the point of the post, look at the video, and answer for it, if you think the bible is 110% true then your voice is more important here than most. nobody likes a preacher, by continually avoiding the question instead of adding to the argument you actually do christianity harm. You're being given the option to defend your faith, step up to the challenge or admit your god has evil tendencies. Your posting here but refusing to comment on the video is like admitting you not only dont like what you see, but you also want to seperate it from your mind, and your religion, when its actually an integral part of christianity and the bible. Take responsibility for what you preach because this video shows what you support! now what say you about the video, break it down logically and defend your religion.
Christians are literally have, without exaggeration, logically broken brains. To think a perfect god could write and old testament, but then change his mind in his new testament, is extremely irrational.
in other words.
R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D.
Let me ask you something, spiritofthewolf, how old do you think the universe is? Please give me a straight answer.
What happens when you go past 100% on the truthometer? Does it wrap around to the other side or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf
Spiritofthewolf, I would really like to know your assessment of the video. You didn't address it. You said that if we have questions we should read the Bible. By watching that video, I was reading the Bible. I got the message that I am supposed to kill people for working on Sunday and that I am supposed to destroy entire towns of atheists. I would like you to say whether you think that really is the message and how you reconcile it with your morals.
For those who say the New Testament changed everything, don't forget that the Old Testament, according to the video, says the teachings in the Old Testament are perfect and eternal. That means what is taught in the Old Testament is not subject to change, it seems. What do you think about that?
You are absolutely right. And if God sees all eternity simultaneously, why would he have dealt with one group of people differently than another (specifically, those before the common era versus those in the common era). That is why I'm a skeptic about the Old Testament, but like I said, I haven't read it so I shouldn't be too quick to judge. The man who made this video most likely hasn't read it either and probably got all these passages from an anti-Bible website. I'm sure these passages don't represent the essence of the Bible's teachings (in fact, they are probably far from it!). Similarly, America stands for freedom and democracy, but one might guess otherwise seeing how we invade other countries and create chaos. They don't know what America stands for no more than this narrator knows what the Bible stands for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Take it from somebody who has read the OT, it is FULL of that stuff. I'm not even mentioning all the times God's racism permitted him to kill non-Jewish people who just happened to live in the land the Jews wanted.
In fact, I would say the OT (mostly the Torah) is a racist book promoting Jewish supremacy of the world. Lying below the text is the most racist piece of work in history. It is much, MUCH more fanatically violent than the Quran.
They will be the voices of reason and logic, rather than blind belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf
Well then, PROVE IT. Because what you are saying is that everything in the bible is true. Well then, where the HELL is the evidence for ANY of:
Genesis
Angels
Demons
God
Satan
Hell
Heaven
Souls
Jesus
well? Where is it?
...Well, why on earth would i open my heart up to an empty hope?...
I drank like, six cans of root beer in a row. I thought he'd think that was pretty cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf
Seismouar its called reading the bible..all your answers are in there...If you arent into reading the bible...there is a great book out called "Case For Christ"
It was written by a YALE UNIVERSITY professor..he set out to prove that Jesus never exsisted and that the Bible was all false...Through his years of studies/trying he ended up becoming a believer himself...
another good book is called "A Divine Revelation of Hell" by Mary k Baxtor
She was given visions of hell for 30 days and ended up writing a book about it...
You wont ever begin to understand The Bible or anything surrounding it until you truly begin to believe... I hope you will give those books a look, it may open your eyes/heart a little bit
good luck and god bless
SPIRITOFTHEWOLF... HELLO????????Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf
I hate to be blunt, but are we now blind to the original topic of this thread? It plainly directed us to the bible itself, and the passages we all read together are what we're questioning.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf
"All your answers are in there" only seems to be a proper response to "What sort of terrible acts are Christians taught?" If you don't have a specific explanation as to how these acts are not terrible, please say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritofthewolf
...and? In science (proof), one's personal beliefs should, and can't interfere with fact. Religion is the opposite. For you to believe it is ENTIRLEY personal and blind of fact.
Oh, and SOTW, for the record, you have dodged two questions with the same strawman.