Thread: A question to christians about their heaven

Here you've assumed Christians believe something in particular and used it to insult them before they've even responded to your question. Do you see why this is offensive?

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

Here you've assumed Christians believe something in particular and used it to insult them before they've even responded to your question. Do you see why this is offensive?

Have you ever read the bible? It is COMPLETELY centered on humans. Wtf? Why would some divine Deity care about our meger existence? Well, obviously because we made it up!

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Have you ever read the bible? It is COMPLETELY centered on humans. Wtf? Why would some divine Deity care about our meger existence? Well, obviously because we made it up!

Perhaps because the Bible was written by humans, on earth, where humans are the only forms of intelligent life. I'd be surprised to hear the apostle Paul talking about repentance of the martians.

And are you suggesting a divine deity could only care about the existence of massive, super-intelligent space-men?

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

Perhaps because the Bible was written by humans, on earth, where humans are the only forms of intelligent life. I'd be surprised to hear the apostle Paul talking about repentance of the martians.

And if we are linked to god, the creator, why would he not tell us of any other life-forms?

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

And are you suggesting a divine deity could only care about the existence of massive, super-intelligent space-men?

I never said that. I said the bible is completely based around the latest species of Homo, us, SAPIENS. Hell, according to the bible (which BTW is god's word) god spent a whole day on us.

You asked why some divine deity would care about our 'meager' existence. To me, this suggests you believe God could only care about super-special beings with super-special powers (which, in fact, humans might be, considering we have an intellect and have done incredible things with it--tell me again, why are we humans so irrelevant to God?)

Why didn't God tell us about other life forms? I could see it now: Jesus sitting at the last supper, telling his disciples to eat the bread and drink the wine because it is his body and blood, then saying, by the way, extra-terrestrials exist. This is a ridiculous question.

What else should the Bible be based off of? Turtles? Cockroaches? Though, these creatures might have trouble reading the text. So I guess it's logical to make it about humans, just like every other history book.

I just love complete illogical misunderstandings, carry on ninja pirate.

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

You asked why some divine deity would care about our 'meager' existence. To me, this suggests you believe God could only care about super-special beings with super-special powers (which, in fact, humans might be, considering we have an intellect and have done incredible things with it--tell me again, why are we humans so irrelevant to God?)

Why didn't God tell us about other life forms? I could see it now: Jesus sitting at the last supper, telling his disciples to eat the bread and drink the wine because it is his body and blood, then saying, by the way, extra-terrestrials exist. This is a ridiculous question.

What else should the Bible be based off of? Turtles? Cockroaches? Though, these creatures might have trouble reading the text. So I guess it's logical to make it about humans, just like every other history book.

1. Humans can't even figure out how to harness the tiny amount of energy in a lightning bolt.

2. We can't even land on our moon.

3. Our social infrastructure is failing.

4. We WILL go extint, just like evrything else on the planet.

5. I asked why god would be so intent with us. I mean, we are like a speck of dirt on a flea on a dog in a field on a planet in a universe, in this universe.

7. All life should be valued equally. The bible teaches otherwise. The bible teaches that we are superior to animals, in truth, this is only humans' innate sense of superiority. The need to belong to something grand.

8. You have persistently avoided the question.

I thought we had landed on the moon?

Originally Posted by wannywan

I thought we had landed on the moon?

Ever heard of the space race, special effects? Propaganda?

I'm not sure that I buy the whole cover-up thing, as well concieved as it is.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Ever heard of the space race, special effects? Propaganda?

Oh please! It's very hard to criticize people for believing in the bible when you believe in the craziest conspiracy theory ever devised!

Originally Posted by wannywan

I'm not sure that I buy the whole cover-up thing, as well concieved as it is.

Meh, i looked into it. It makes sense to me. All of the problems, illogicalness, etc. But neway BACK ON TOPIC! A-HEM!

Originally Posted by skysaw

Oh please! It's very hard to criticize people for believing in the bible when you believe in the craziest conspiracy theory ever devised!

It makes SOME sense. But that is for a different thread.

It's a very good theory nonetheless, with the Van Allen belt and all that, but it's just a bit too... far fetched I suppose.

Though I see where you're coming from, people walking on the moon when you couldn't even play Pong! in your living room is far fetched as well.

Originally Posted by wannywan

I just love complete illogical misunderstandings, carry on ninja pirate.

Yes, I misunderstood the original question, Do you think martians are going to heaven? If you don't, you're going to hell and your religion is illogical.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

1. Humans can't even figure out how to harness the tiny amount of energy in a lightning bolt.

2. We can't even land on our moon.

3. Our social infrastructure is failing.

4. We WILL go extint, just like evrything else on the planet.

5. I asked why god would be so intent with us. I mean, we are like a speck of dirt on a flea on a dog in a field on a planet in a universe, in this universe.

7. All life should be valued equally. The bible teaches otherwise. The bible teaches that we are superior to animals, in truth, this is only humans' innate sense of superiority. The need to belong to something grand.

8. You have persistently avoided the question.

Let's see. We've learned how to communicate with each other through language. We've discovered things such as mathematics, science, cosmology, and all that good stuff. We've built trains, plains, and automobiles (along with other transportation devices). We've created cities and housing with built-in heating and air-conditioning, running water, and lighting. We've set up a market such that we can conveniently buy food when we are hungry, clothes when we grow, and a multitude of other utilities which aid us in day-to-day life. We've created technology, such as the telephone, radio, television, and computer (and with these have set satellites in orbit around earth). We've set up a world-wide-web so that I could be discussing this with you here and now. And yes, we have been to the moon.

Regarding #5, what other kind of creature should we be in order for God to care about us (this is why I mentioned the massive, super-smart, spaceman--because this is exactly what you are suggesting)?

All life should be valued equally? So if I kill a fly, should I be taken custody and tried for the murder? This is exactly what should happen if the fly's life is to be valued as a human's. You can see how this would create some problems.

I won't answer your question because you first chose to assume my answer and insult me based upon that assumption. Sorry.

Originally Posted by wannywan

It's a very good theory nonetheless, with the Van Allen belt and all that, but it's just a bit too... far fetched I suppose.

Though I see where you're coming from, people walking on the moon when you couldn't even play Pong! in your living room is far fetched as well.

Think about it tho:

They had to go through all of that radiation, WITHOUT damaging any equipment, & they had to stay in top condition. Now, being exposed to that much radtiation for a few hours is enough to weaken the strongest athlete, yet the astronaughts were in top condition + all of the cameras worked fine.

We WERE in a race with russia, and so far, had been beaten, it isn't to far-fetched to say that we cheated.

Ther different shadows.

The people not overheating in the 350^oF+ Temp.

The visible strings on the eagle.

The absence of sattelite photography here: http://moon.google.com

The astronauts perfect condition whilst being in space for a few weeks, without an exercising area, etc. Like in the space station.

And many other things...

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

Yes, I misunderstood the original question, Do you think martians are going to heaven? If you don't, you're going to hell and your religion is illogical.



Let's see. We've learned how to communicate with each other through language. We've discovered things such as mathematics, science, cosmology, and all that good stuff. We've built trains, plains, and automobiles (along with other transportation devices). We've created cities and housing with built-in heating and air-conditioning, running water, and lighting. We've set up a market such that we can conveniently buy food when we are hungry, clothes when we grow, and a multitude of other utilities which aid us in day-to-day life. We've created technology, such as the telephone, radio, television, and computer (and with these have set satellites in orbit around earth). We've set up a world-wide-web so that I could be discussing this with you here and now. And yes, we have been to the moon.

Regarding #5, what other kind of creature should we be in order for God to care about us (this is why I mentioned the massive, super-smart, spaceman--because this is exactly what you are suggesting)?

All life should be valued equally? So if I kill a fly, should I be taken custody and tried for the murder? This is exactly what should happen if the fly's life is to be valued as a human's. You can see how this would create some problems.

I won't answer your question because you first chose to assume my answer and insult me based upon that assumption. Sorry.

Most every animal does this, we didn't "discover" it, we just use it.
I am waiting for your point.
" "Evidence points away from this.
I never asked that, i asked why we are what god centers on. And i did NOT say if you don't believe they are, you are going to hell, i said such selfishness SHOULD be punished, because it is narrowminded, i never assumed anything, you just read it wrong

Yes, all life SHOULD be treated equally. Just because i don't believe in god doesn't mean i don't value life. But from what i see of Xianity, only humans are important, and i find that quite selfish.

Sorry for the thread hijack...

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Think about it tho:

I've done plenty more than "think about it." I have researched it thoroughly, and the evidence is conclusive. Every single point of the hoax theories have been completely blown out of the water. Here is one example of a point-by-point destruction of the conspiracy theory: http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/

But if you still think it was a hoax, you should probably start a new thread on it.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Most every animal does this, we didn't "discover" it, we just use it.
I am waiting for your point.
" "Evidence points away from this.
I never asked that, i asked why we are what god centers on. And i did NOT say if you don't believe they are, you are going to hell, i said such selfishness SHOULD be punished, because it is narrowminded, i never assumed anything, you just read it wrong

Yes, all life SHOULD be treated equally. Just because i don't believe in god doesn't mean i don't value life. But from what i see of Xianity, only humans are important, and i find that quite selfish.

You tried to illustrate how stupid and useless we are. I am illustrating the opposite. I don't care what you think about the moon, there are a multitude of other things humans have done. Your OP was offensive regardless of how you try to defend it. Again, if all life is equal, should people be imprisoned for swatting flies? What about the fish and animals we use as food? Are you a vegetarian? If not, you would certainly be in prison for endorsing the murder of those animals. What about plants? Plants have life! Looks like the vegetarians are screwed too.

Are we that small? If we consider the infinite divisibility of space, then we are in fact relatively the same size as every mass in the universe. There could be another galaxy in the spec of dust on my laptop. Not so small anymore, am I? I guess God can care about me now.

Originally Posted by skysaw

Sorry for the thread hijack...

I've done plenty more than "think about it." I have researched it thoroughly, and the evidence is conclusive. Every single point of the hoax theories have been completely blown out of the water. Here is one example of a point-by-point destruction of the conspiracy theory: http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/

But if you still think it was a hoax, you should probably start a new thread on it.

That was very interesting, actually. I think he made a good point, and was probably right. But the only thing i don't get is THIS, i mean, if nasa had the sat. photos, why wouldn't they be on there?

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

I mean, we basically have evidence that life in fact DOES exist on other planets, hell, we even found on that is a lot like earth, so why would it be far-fetched to say that there is life on it? And... If there are living creatures on it, don't you think they will go to your heaven? Or is your heaven a humans-only countryclub?

I do believe that there is life out there, just because the sheer amount of mass means that even random particle collisions should proudce DNA a million times over; but I can't tell what evidence you're talking about here..? There isn't any solid evidence of life similar to that on Earth as of yet...

Originally Posted by ninja pirate

You tried to illustrate how stupid and useless we are. I am illustrating the opposite. I don't care what you think about the moon, there are a multitude of other things humans have done. Your OP was offensive regardless of how you try to defend it. Again, if all life is equal, should people be imprisoned for swatting flies? What about the fish and animals we use as food? Are you a vegetarian? If not, you would certainly be in prison for endorsing the murder of those animals. What about plants? Plants have life! Looks like the vegetarians are screwed too.

Are we that small? If we consider the infinite divisibility of space, then we are in fact relatively the same size as every mass in the universe. There could be another galaxy in the spec of dust on my laptop. Not so small anymore, am I? I guess God can care about me now.

I tried to show that we aren't any better than animals. Oh, and come of the whole buddist thing. I said all life should be valued the same. I didn't say treated the same. If you were to kill an animal to eat it, then sure, yea, ynot? But if you're gonna kill something because you can, that's different. No im n ot a vegetarian. Once again, you try to stereotype me.

Congratulations. You officially proved to me what i had thought before, you xians won't answer a question directly, you just dance around the point. So please, do this thread a favor, and get the **** out!!

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

That was very interesting, actually. I think he made a good point, and was probably right. But the only thing i don't get is THIS, i mean, if nasa had the sat. photos, why wouldn't they be on there?

I assume you mean why can't you see landing evidence?

Originally Posted by Jim Scotti

From space, a telescope is limited by its diffraction limited resolution. For the Hubble Space Telescope, that is a little less than 0.05 arcseconds or about 90 meters at the distance of the moon. To resolve the LM descent stage which is about 10 meters across, one would need to have a resolution better than 10 meters, perhaps 2-3 meters which means we need a telescope some 30 times larger than the HST in orbit around the Earth to resolve the largest equipment left on the moon.